Doc

OK ...... now it makes sense ...... thanks.

Huh???? What does that mean?

Wouldn't it be an ugly situation to miss the buck of a lifetime and then find out that the sights had inadvertantly been bumped. I would have a hard time forgiving myself .... lol. Doc

Unless you are hunting on a rifle range that has the foreground and background cleared and a bulldozed-up earthen backstop, there is not a hunter around that can honestly say that there is not some hunter hunkered down in camo somewhere behind the deer that they are shooting at. With today's effective camo patterns, hunters can hide almost in plain sight. So while you certainly should take note of what is going on in the background, and what is moving into the background before shooting, that rule does realistically have it's limitations. Trying to pick out some little detail behind the deer that doesn't belong, is one of the strong points of blaze orange. It's not fool-proof, but far far better than not wearing it. Also, there have been links posted earlier on this thread that lead to stats that show that over-whelmingly, more hunting shooting incidents occur where the victim was not wearing blaze orange. Those stats include NYS numbers. Doc

I want to thank you all for your kind thoughts and condolences. This kind of thing is always pretty tough to get through. Ricky was a great guy and to go at such a young age is just a horrible thing. Nobody needs to receive the kind of phone call that my aunt and uncle did. I can't even imagine the horror of hearing those words that their youngest son was dead. And for his wife and children, what a devastating life altering event that must be. This is all something that we seldom think of when we head out to go hunting. But all aspects of hunting safety have taken on a whole new reality for me. Doc

Related to our Doc? He lives near Bristol.....and it is a somewhat unusual surname. Regardless.....prayers for the families. Eric is my cousin. His death is a tremendous loss to the family. He will be missed.

I was thinking that maybe there was a noise or something that would get them to leave without associating their reason for leaving with me or my stand. That's why I tried the buck grunt, hoping that they had already been harrassed by bucks and would just vacate the field for the night so I could get out. I have heard suggestions that a mimicked coyote howl might produce the same result, but I didn't quite want to risk that either. I'm not sure that would produce the "soft-spook" (I just made that up ....lol) that I was looking for. I think there might be some value in waiting until after dark. I realize that they have excellent night vision, but I always seem to be able to get away with a lot more stuff with deer as long as it is dark. I don't know, but I was hoping that somebody might have figured out some kind of trick that works at least some of the time. It is real frustrating to know that a favorite stand that is the result of a lot of hours of scouting and planning is about to be screwed up for the season simply because the deer arrived too late. I took a heck of a chance trying to sneak out the back, and I still don't know if it worked or not. But I didn't really have any choice. Doc

Yeah this has been a real frustrating year with hikers and bikers and small game hunters shooting up the area where I have been trying to move in on a nice buck. Just tonite there was a woman hiker who went wandering by my stand. Fortunately it was early in the afternoon, and I doubt that she bothered anything. However, all the excuses aside lol.... I may not have gotten anything yet but I have had some great times so far and have seen quite a few deer. Just haven't been able to put things together yet. One more part of a week left. If I connect ..... fine. If I don't that's fine too. I do enjoy gun hunting too and won't be missing much of that either. Doc

Oh I haven't given up, but I have to admit that it doesn't look real good at this point.

lol ...... But seriously folks ..... I know that this sort of thing must happen to others. At some point in the evening, we do have to get out and go home even if there are still deer hanging out in the area. Has anyone actually figured out a fool-proof way to gracefully escape the stand without blowing all future opportunities there?

That sounds a bit un-natural, but I'll have to take your word for that.

I wouldn't doubt that for a minute.

So would that rack be considered "outside the ears"? That's a pretty nice looking rack, but if there were an "outside the ears" restriction, that buck probably wouldn't be legal..... or would it? What's your opinion? Doc

Well, I got to say that your idea of sparking debate sure has the look and sound of a "sell job"..... but anyway ..... I don't think there is any doubt that such a plan would cost us hunters. If you don't believe that, just randomly grab a few posts here and see how many of them talk about doe hunting at all. Turn on the outdoor channel or VS. at any time and see how many programs they have about doe hunting. Open any deer hunting magazine and see where doe hunting ranks in hunter interest. Today, the emphasis is definitely on antlers, to the point where we have successfully created expectations in many hunters, and an attitude that the antlers are the only measure of hunting success. Now tell those hunters that for three years they will not be legally eligible to take that sole symbol of success. I frankly don't thing it would take three years to permanently lose a significant percentage of hunters. That would just form yet one more excuse for people to leave our ranks. What would you expect? Would any hunters do it? ..... probably here and there. However, I would expect the overwhelming majority to reject the idea. Antlers are the thing that we have been selling hunters with out hunting media onslaught. We,ve taught them that there is no reason to hunt other than antlers. Don't be expecting that you can all of a sudden turn it all off. As far as convincing them that such a plan is necessary to "help the herd ...... hell, you haven't even convinced the DEC of that. Doc

Wait a minute .... lol .... did you go and jump topics on me again? That first sentence doesn't make any sense in the context of the "doe only season" that we were talking about. Yes when you talk about the ideal ratio of bucks to does, even the REAL experts do not give you the same answers. Imagine how silly it sounds when arm-chair game managers start trying to sound like they have all the answers. And what on earth ever gave you the idea that I have a problem with taking trophy animals and displaying them. Just another little something that you have fabricated out of thin air. Look, it isn't me that is denying that AR is primarily about trophy hunting. I'm not the one trying to say that support of AR has nothing to do with trophy hunting, but rather is strictly for the benefit of the herd. It is the AR supporters that are running away from their trophy motivations like its some kind of evil activity. I have never said or even indicated that I am against the pursuit of trophy animals. I probably try to keep it a little more in balance with other aspects of hunting than some do, but I certainly have no problems with taking and displaying trophy animals and I can't understand where you ever made up the thought that I do.

Now let me get this right this time. Are you just trying to "spark conversation", or just "trying to be a smart-ass", or is this a statement in support of a bogus management plan? Seriously ..... of course I don't like your plan. Until someone can answer my point about what happens after the three year period, how can I or anybody take such a thing seriously? It's a half an idea, without any end-game, and is certain to accelerate an already declining hunter population. Everyone is tip-toeing around these nasty little details and unanswered questions, but if you are really interested in any kind of serious debate, you can't continue to replace these points with simple insults.

Anybody look at that calendar lately? Only a week of bow season left! And I haven't got 'er done yet. It ain't looking too good. I've educated just about every deer in the area. Maybe in the gun season, I might have a different education in store for them. ;D Doc

No, it was my best rendition of "go Away Little Girl"....... for those old enough to rememnber that one ..... lol.

Lol ...... Sorry that I failed your standard of good responses. I'll try not to lose sleep over that. :

65 pages. This is a very popular topic. I don't think there are a whole lot of minds being changed, but it is generating a lot of interesting thoughts on the subject. Doc

I guess you haven't been reading his replies. It is being defended like a proposed management plan and so I am responding accordingly. I am merely replying to what he is saying. And if the topic has evolved into the discussion of the 3 year doe only season (and I am not the one who brought that subject into this thread), I think that after 13 pages, it should not be too surprising if a topic evolves a bit. Since the doe only season was also mentioned as an "alternative to Antler Restriction" just as the title of this topic, I don't believe it is as far off topic as you are making it out to be. Doc

Larry - Nice looking buck. Congatulations! Doc

Yup! it's not the first time and probably won't be the last. 4 good sized does came out in my little grasslot not too long before the end of shooting time and stayed out of range, just having a great time casually munching away while it got darker and darker. I was in a pop-up blind that did it's job real well, but I found myself trapped inside afraid to pack up and unzip and step outside. The good news is that the back door opens up into a bunch of fir trees that I planted, and the zipper is plastic and very quiet. So anyway here is what I tried. I grabbed my grunt call, and started playing a tune on it hoping the does would think some horny buck was on its way into the field and just maybe with the chasing of the rut they might just scoot out of the field so I could exit the blind. Well, maybe that was a good thought but it didn't work. Instead it just pulled their attention to the blind. It also got them all to get even closer ...... not at all what I wanted or expected. Finally they got to the point where they were mostly ignoring the grunt call and simply went back to their grazing. They were about 20 yards away, but the shooting hours were past even though lightwise I could have easily made the shot. So, I was forced to go to plan B. Finally, I set eveything down on the ground, and used the road noise (highway is fairly close) to cover the noise of the zipper, and slipped out the back. Being instantly 1 row inside the fir plantation, I was also instantly screened from view. So I just left everything in the blind and snuck down the row of trees and made a big circle around the field and back to the house. I just might have pulled it off, because I heard no snorting or stomping or crashing off into the thicket. I'll get my stuff tomorrow morning. It probably would be a good idea to let the place calm down a bit before I hunt there again. Of course, it's a spot that can only be hunted with a south wind (very scarce the last couple of weeks), and also we only have a few days of bow season left. It's a real shame because I have regularly been getting pictures of this bunch feeding within a few yards of this stand. So anyway, I can't be the only guy that's been trapped this way (either in a ground blind or a treestand). What do you guys do to make the great escape without busting the area for the remainder of the season? Doc

The real bad news is that a certain percentage of people will link his actions with hunters regardless of the facts. This sort of thing always is bad news for the sport of hunting even though we all know that it should not be. Of course it's unfair, but that's just the way people associate things. Nothing you can do about it. Doc

Yup, for a season or two and then you are back to square one but with a lot fewer hunters. And what the heck for? Yeah, I know so that the herd gets all healthy (as though they're not) and for a season or so, you have what is imagined to be some kind of better buck to doe ratio (which is something even the real experts are only guessing at and also something that none of them agree on. What a crock! Actually, the real purpose is that it would allow whatever hunters that are left to have an easier time getting something to hang on their walls and that's pretty much what all these schemes are all about. Thank heavens the DEC is having none of it.