dbHunterNY

the numbers I used to do the math with some assumptions came from the NYS DEC published "2015 Deer Hunting Forecast". See my last post in reply to Moog why you don't have such a finite number. I don't need to call them. Since you're on a first name basis why don't you talk to them? The senior region 8 wildlife biologist and chief biologist both won awards for the previous deer management plan, so I'm sure they could give you some kind of answer. haha

I'm at ease. they did what they did. DEC will never jump in with both feet without testing the water first. they're a state entity. procrastination or silly crap is said to be "thorough" or "considering and reviewing all options". whatever, we can't control the DEC outside hunter recruitment and satisfaction. can't manipulate things like their desired level is their BTO which they use as an indicator of population size and that is their loosely defined goal. all their numbers. I just did the their math with some assumptions. pretty safe ones at that but DEC is a state entity that can't make assumptions. assumptions open up the possibility to get screwed. DEC has to work off of estimations and not hard numbers. estimates are in a sense assumptions. if they give you hard "defined" numbers based off these estimates and it doesn't work out at the end of the season they look like they failed. so they will never give you a finite harvest goals or numbers without an if an or but. asking for a more defined harvest goal is like asking for a population estimate. You'll never get it.

well they aren't going to and that's the info you get. they published it so why should it be ignored. I've seen you post over and over that they don't give out any info about their goals. you don't think their desired levels has anything to do with their goals? I just had a regional biologist tell me otherwise.

true but access wise you're 23 acres out of 574 square miles. over the counter or something else other than what they proposed is what's needed to have more hunters doing their part. those of us who take our fair share can and will only take so much, which isn't enough. even if you could and would try to take enough to balance that out, you couldn't. laugh all you want but you just lost 14 days and late season of buck hunting.

this mentality is one of the big factors for a decline in overall deer population. things like EHD or human related liberal doe take reduce the population. hunters don't come to terms with the situation there's fewer deer so you can't harvest as many. they harvest deer as if nothing is different and now the population doesn't rebound. not to ignore limited holding capacity in areas similar to the catskills.

if you're in 8H it better be taking at least 9 doe per square mile throughout the WMU, assuming the similar buck take as the past half a decade. their goal is 7 doe per square mile assuming you're not over the BTO but I'm sure the WMU will probably be again 2 bucks over the BTO. in DEC's mind they think those 2 bucks could've been doe or there are more deer then the BTO suggests. why DEC has us at 4.5 for a BTO in 4C is retarded and they need a little restructuring or education of the citizen task force for our area. I plan on working on that a little. we've been under it for a while, in turn get less doe permits, and then get over run with deer. ...but to DEC it looks good on paper. the way the system works is BTO should change with the trend of buck harvest in a WMU. why DEC holds onto the same number forever has me befuddled as all hell.

age is important. problem trying to think trophy management at 1.5 yrs old is like peeing into the wind. that 1.5 year old 8 or 10 pointer with a tiny rack might seem bigger than the 4" spike buck but you don't know. let them both grow and the basket rack could top out in the 130's and the little spike at 1.5 could very well turn into a B&C monster. it's been proven.

knowing where you stand with DEC and this management stuff I'd like to know.... what you think about my last post, would you accept it more, and what your concerns are with it for what it is?

I swore I posted a response, but I guess I didn't and it was just autosaved...... antler restrictions from a state wide approach of 3 points on one side does very little. they work better off spread and points but most people start to get all bothered with that much restriction. one buck rule won't change a lot either. it just lets bucks live longer into the season. dead opening day or last day is all the same as far as hunters concerns go. maybe those dead bucks breed some more doe in heavily populated areas with low buck numbers but it still won't be next years opportunity which most I'd say are concerned about. i do actually like OBR for the state though, with the option to earn a second buck. I feel this would work anywhere in the state. you check your buck in like we do doe in some areas. it takes minimal effort and training to tell if it's 2.5+ from tooth replacement. ARs and OBR is subjectively excepted or not but both do eliminate some opportunity. maybe OBR with the opportunity to earn the 2nd buck tag will be more accepted and encourage the general hunting public to think about effects of pulling the trigger. as of right now my mind is pretty set on this a state implemented plan. I fully intend to bring it up to DEC too before any buck restrictions are published. many regional biologists are pro-choice when it comes to buck harvest anyway.

i think the picture is deceiving with the buck's head down and contorted. he doesn't have that much of a tapered race horse look. legs still seem a little too long. at 3.5 they should seem just the right length. also he appears heavy in the front but not that heavy. 9pt doesn't mean much and pot belly with a sway back isn't even applicable until years down the road. after 3.5 the legs appear kind of short as they reach skeletal maturity at 4.5 yr old. antler growth starts to taper off too so after 4.5 yrs old more energy goes into bulk and weight. that's when you see the pot belly and swayed back. just look at WNYBuckHunter's last two pics of 4.5 and 6.5 yr old. rectangular full grown frame (among other things) in the 2nd to last pic and in the last it's a tank. I would be looking for more pictures. I'd say 2.5 yrs old for the buck in the OP. I agree though it could be between 2.5 and 3.5 yr old. deer are no different than people in that some are different sizes than others. they all grow in the same way though. to complete the puzzle we usually combine trail cam pics, jaw bones, and then lab results from sending center two incisors out.

Must have hunters around you passing younger deer. you always seem to have a good age range of bucks. hope you get a chance to one of them at least.

and in Rensselaer it's a plastic printed card like a credit card. fee to get an updated one every time something changes.

first of this is the problem. every dang county is different. laws for pistol permitting and restrictions should be the same in every county in NYS. exceptions maybe being within limits of NYC, Albany, Buffalo, Syracuse, and Binghamton. Major cities. jrm pretty much has it right. in rensselaer county they won't co-register a pistol on more than one permit. you can't legally handle a pistol unless it's on your permit or if a certified pistol instructor and the owner (one with the pistol on their permit) are both present. this doesn't make much sense where it could be commonly used between two or maybe more people. there's plenty of useless crap info on your pistol permit that could take space for indication of ownership. it should be if you have it listed on your permit then you can handle and possess it without being accompanied. however, for official determination of ownership there can be a column for owner. it'd say "Y" or "N".

many educational field days hosted by our QDMA branch require QDMA membership. this is hosted by our co-op with use of the local school property, so it's free to the public. there's 750 seats in the auditorium so we've got room. hoping most of the hunters who hunt on a property of the co-op will attend and learn. one of the more experienced QDMA board members among us will be giving the presentation. the school superintendent and other staff has been great so far by letting us use their facility to promoting deer management. many including the superintendent hunt and seem to be excited.

county based issuing for pistol permits. not all counties will do it. some like mine claim it's due to domestic disputes where two part ways and both claim ownership. was an 8 month wait to get ours. managed to get one gun on both permits. I don't even want to get into how messed up permitting and restrictions are in this state. many of the issues are a simple fix.

perfect!

nope... unless it's got the ability to swap a barrel out for a shotgun, pistol, or rifle barrel of any kind.

our taxes upstate would change to no noticeable degree I'd imagine. anything south of the border.... may governing powers of taxation for NYC have mercy on your soul! haha difference of cost for anything between NYC (including your "upstate" area) and the rest of the state is disgusting.

I've got a rangefinder that's a little dated now but works great. It's a Nikon Riflehunter 1000. 1000+ yard range. Angle mode that works great for bow or steep terrain with a gun. Lighted display turns red in low light. I think I paid $350 for it but since then prices have come down a bit. I use it all year long; summer varmints and all the big game seasons.

He, Him, or any other reference should always be capitalized. Vanity is a sin and isn't limited to just appearance.

i don't really think it's the end of the world, but I think it does suck not being able to shoot a buck if the opportunity is there. it's ridiculous that DEC's using it to reduce the population. it's just not the way to get the needed results of more doe hitting the dirt. I hunt 4J which is one of the areas and actually unique to the ones in western ny in that you only have a bow to hunt with. can't pick up any other implement, crossbow included.

first I say this separate from what they've implemented and in no way mean to justify any of it. some still don't get that I'm against what they did but whatever. in talking with DEC I've been told they don't expect you to fill an either sex in the first two weeks unless you're willing. they do fully expect you to first fill your normal antlerless bow/ml tag and then fill any DMAP or DMP tags. if you fill a DMP or DMAP first and don't get another opportunity before regular season your left with your bow/ml antlerless burning a hole in your pocket until late season. aside from this it came across as they aren't really concerned setting yourself up for future opportunity so much as taking any and every advantage to legally fill tags with doe. the biologist even encouraged the crowd to shoot doe fawns when he was specifically told before hand it'd be a heated topic to bring up. this was in a WMU that isn't considered one of the over populated ones, but some hunter/landowners said they had lots of deer in they're little "pocket" of the WMU. he then said they're not really at all concerned with who shoots what buck and when. they really only care about numbers; too many, too few, or just about right. seemed like they're concern was population control and they couldn't wrap their head around why a hunter would pass on the opportunity to fill a doe tag early bow season. on these forums we've seemed to think of many legit reasons, both personal or otherwise logic based. I understand the need for encouragement for the general hunting population, but not at the expense of screwing them out of opportunity.

wait until you get a rock stuck between the discs. also if you pick up discs and they don't have clean outs to keep dirt from building up between the discs then make some for them. long heavy crow bar is good to have if you have discs, especially for bigger ones.

it's a nice young buck. plots look good too. Having a free Aging On The Hoof event with local bucks September 19th. Open to the public so I hope the auditorium it will be in gets filled. Many in the immediate area haven't even seen a 3.5+ year old buck. When they see what even local bucks can do at 4.5+ yrs old their minds will be blown. haha

I've got very rocky soil around me. I've used my C tine cultivators with my 17HP Kubota B7200D with great results. unless you've got to cross a creek or banks you can get in to areas that you normally couldn't without a compact utility tractor. the tines give and don't hang up on rocks. plows really don't with smaller setups. easier to break. 4' tillers work better and faster but in rocky soil you tend to break tines a lot. some of those smaller foreign brand tillers are harder to find parts.