dbHunterNY

if you live around internet forums, watch TV, and read a couple articles on the internet you have enough info to talk. it's a big difference though from truly making an effort to learn about it all, reading studies, and actually applying it to a deer herd instead of a sole effort by you and maybe a hunting buddy. So i'll agree that there's lots of self proclaimed "experts" and the trained person with the degree is usually a safe bet in comparison. Although, I've got multiple degrees and it's of my opinion an open mind, ambition to learn, and good resources of knowledge is most of what you need. every piece of information should make sense though. don't take anything for granted. seems like work but most are excepting of the task if it's something that's even an important hobby for them.

shooting bows, rifles, and now pistols competitively I've figured out squeezing a trigger isn't really that easy and simple. there's a lot going on like my elaborate description! lol I love it when people forget to take off the safety and you're watching them. holy mother do some do some crazy weird motions when it doesn't break. I think me growing up learning to shoot my dad's Remington 7600 with its horrific stock trigger helped me some.

try to leave at least a 1/4 of the tree diameter. hinge cutting is better done on smaller stuff where you can use a hand saw like several inches in diameter or less. the idea is to keep it alive yea. it'll provide browse and cover. think about setting them up though. don't make it so open they can spot you coming from far off. also they like it cleared under them of forest floor debris except for soft stuff maybe. also favor deer favor them with the trees felled into the wind so they can watch down wind and smell upwind where they can't see. most common mistakes are not cutting high enough. the deer have to be able to stand and leap out from under them or they won't be used. cut them like 5' high. make the bed larger for doe family groups and make a separate one 10-20 yards away that's smaller and up wind for a buck. like gjs4 said a push/pull stick helps a lot as spots will be heavy with small trees that will get hung up on others as they fall. it's just a sturdy pole with a sturdy wide gap hook or angle to pull and push with.

that's the whole idea. they're supposed to rely on your input as they're supposed to represent your interests. if we don't give them input then yea, they're useless.

they haven't yet and won't if you don't voice your support to your senators and assemblymen.

I could think of 3800 additional reasons and years of hind sight that would cause a poacher to think twice. many of you seem to have the mindset that all poachers are the same and they're not. I think this would deter most of them. except the very hardcore boldest ones. then if they get caught, especially more than once, they won't be able to afford to do it again. the only reason I can think of why someone would seemingly ignore this as a good thing is an unknown fact they probably have a bait pile at their honey hole and they're afraid it'll come back to bite them. any step in the right direction is something worth while. here in NY we've got to take what we can get.

I've seen where really good drone operators filming for TV show aerial shots even ended up in the trees or brush. I think drones have their place and it isn't really in hunting. only thing I've really had the itch to use is a MMS/wireless cam. haven't justified buying one though.

same here. give IT credit for what God let it grow. if it wasn't for the traditional and mythical look of a large typical rack I'd say we should base it on weight of bone. I once held a both sides to a typical and symmetrical 6 pointer and they were probably the heaviest set of bone I've ever been in the presence of. score added to nothing but it was impressive. index finger and thumb wouldn't touch mid beam.

I agree. Our co-op hasn't changed anything having to do with access though. same hunters on the same properties and being apart of the co-op doesn't mean you get to hunt any co-op property. If anything we're bringing in more hunters to certain properties at the request of the landowner to achieve doe harvest goals. Not all co-ops are created equal and aren't perfect either even for their intentions. It's a great source of information for the DEC to work with though.

for whatever reason DEC wasn't expressing much of any interest at all to get this in motion, for whatever reason. so the it had to be done is to go through legislative bodies like senate and assembly. if you don't stand by this and instead what for DEC to make the changes, it'll never happen.

trained biologists aren't really required unless you do a little book work on your own. not all state biologists for our regions have whitetail deer in there wheel house of knowledge. that's when you hear about some aging deer at 15+ years old just from visual observation or aging a jaw bone solely based on sharpness of teeth. we go for hikes to look for winter kill but how many go for hikes well before that to do browse surveys? not really anything fancy but you look at browse in your woods. know what species to look for and the order in which the general deer population prefer them. you'll then start to have a better idea if there's too many deer for where you are. if deer are hitting less preferred browse harder then that means there's too competition for it. that's where the whole older timer woodsmenship stuff comes into play. some of them already knew this stuff but we didn't have internet and such readily available info as we do today. getting "trained" or a degree was the only meanings to learn enough of it.

that's the way they do it in 4J that's bow only. checkstation availability has to be there other wise it's a pain the butt. can only hang on to a deer head on ice for so long and it'd be helpful info to give them a dressed weight from a processor or yourself. you could grid off each WMU to keep record of any serious density changes within a WMU that really is only used by that region.

don't use them but they're a simple and effective design. I've gotten the fly well out of others setups.

I don't think any of them dislike deer but really don't think about them in the slightest. they don't want anyone on their property for almost any reason. however, we tell them perfect if they join we will ensure nobody goes there and will be eyes and ears. let them know if we see or hear anything. so they're like perfect I don't have to do anything to be a part of this, bonus points with my neighbors off my back, and my property is watched while I'm out of town instead of a hunting/party site. slowly but inevitably we develop a relationship. we even let DEC ECOs know it's not huntable property too. these properties are few so concern for access for us is not a concern. nobody's had or would get permission to hunt their anyway. now we the coop use it as a sanctuary that's on the outer portion of the co-op but far enough from the boardering properties that don't participate. so we use it to reduce pressure and hold deer on the co-op more so than otherwise. now we have a honey hole that always produces like the one you've got and have mentioned. it's added acreage for added DEC DMAPs. lastly, when people who are or might join are shown the highlighted map, it's one big warm fuzzy contiguous tract of properties following the same rules. holes or gaps have always seemed to lead to cause for concern when nearby properties are worrying about passing up bucks or figuring out doe take. ...co-ops are "all the rage" because I've found out when done correctly they simply work. on going PITA especially for those directing the circus but it's true. as long as it's a community effort, those apart of it see it through, and decisions are deer based and not people based all the good stuff will follow and overshadow anything bad. DEC could never do what we do with the resources they've got. They much rather give us what they can to let us do what we're doing.

don't have weatherby experience. trigger creep is a horrible thing though. it's like seeing a little kid nervous to jump into a pool, at the edge and point of no return. many times all is reasonably fine, or they panic at the very last second from knowing and FEELING it's happening. then next you know they're flailing into the water or bump something off the edge of the pool. with practice you can ride it out until it happens and all is well. a trigger without creep is better though. like closing your eyes and someone giving the initial shove. much swifter and fluent transition.

the variety of uses of land is definitely a factor as you said. however, if you told me the future out come of our co-op, I would've never believed you. it truly is a melting pot of land owners from all the "walks of life" that are apart of our co-op. so care very little about deer, hunting, and haven't so much as picked up a stick on their property. each land owner or even "stake holder" has a particular benefit that is their driving force for participation. Every single type of person you listed as not giving a rip about wildlife is represented in our co-op. I'd tell you "believe me" but I know now you'd have to witness it all come to fruition to do so.

last night we held a post deer season meeting for our area to allow for an open forum and those who had any concerns or complaints to let them be known. several hundred to one thousand people are involved whether they own land or hunt. sent out emails and posted on the facebook page, as well as spread the word. we've been hearing of some concerns (whether warranted or not) throughout the year, yet the only "stake holders" that made an appearance where those that didn't have any concerns and thought we were doing well. go figure.

i don't use all my tags but could definitely fill them all. once my chest freezer is almost full to last the year i sit on the tags i have to and pass on those i can. i do this, because... - my freezer is full - i want to allow opportunity for others to hunting the property to get something (pre-season we determine a doe harvest goal and don't go over it) - mostly i get harassed by others in the surrounding area that can't hunt as well. told I'm being greedy and harvesting too many doe. - if i took more deer I'd donate to venison coalition anyway and probably still be made out to feel like an a**h***. i take my fair share at least. giving me more wouldn't do anything. those that get a DMP and don't fill it.... never knew they existed but they do... just leaves me scratching my head. buck behind every doe during regular season? not hardly.

to monkey with things more those DMAPS still have annual reporting but are good for three seasons. Not sure how we're going to deal with that. just record keeping wise maybe and if you didn't fill the ones you got we won't give your property more. It's been loosely encouraged to turn the unfilled tags back to DEC. However, I find it hard to believe some will not lose them after a few years to wear having every tag accounted for will be a problem. ...logistics for the large chunk of land I coordinate I guess, as it's probably not a problem for smaller tracts at around a tag per 50 acres.

Recently I usually take my share of our prescribed doe harvest that first week, unless I don't have all my tags yet. we didn't get DMAPS until halfway through early season.

I know of a lot that procrastinate shooting a doe because they think opportunity will continue to be there. as the season rolls on that turns out not to be the case. maybe they figure it'll cause those that are normally willing to take a doe to be rushed into doing so sooner. they're all about baby steps. if harvest doesn't increase enough they might consider it for those areas mentioned in lake plains, finger lakes, and southeastern portions.

not sure if there's enough truth to the snood theory to mean anything. not sure how it translates without referencing turkeys.... idk though maybe there's a difference in temperament between you two. or maybe lawd thinks he can strut better.

Doggart sounds like a lunatic. Not much more to say about him other than I hope they continue to keep an eye on him within reason not to make him crack and go nuts prematurely. On the flip side I wonder if they're all peaceful and happy. If a white guy were to just be passing through but maybe stop for lunch and gas, I wonder how many looks or comments similar to "why are you here" would he get? or how about a white lady in a summer dress? Similar to doing to same in more of an area known for violence, the "the wrong side of town", the "hood", or "ghetto". I don't know how welcomed you'd be, but I've never been there.

i don't know turkeys that well to age them like I can deer. I always thought any bird with longer center tail feathers was a jake and other a longbeard (2+ yrs old). I've seen what I consider super jakes with a very noticeably larger quantity of fan feathers that are longer, closer toward a 4" beard but usually under 5", and spurs were half inch nubs (maybe just a jake born sooner in the year?). also always thought beard length and weight was inconsistent. spur length was more consistent with lengths and age similar to what's been mentioned. logic would tell me it's probably no different than aging a deer in that you've got to look at all the characteristics as a whole and not just go by one or possibly two things. also always thought length of snood was an indicator of age but I know now it's more related to dominance or a birds feelin's about the situation it's in. if two birds are coming over the rise and I can see only tops of heads and tail feathers the bird with the longer snood is probably the older one (that's more dominant). never knew the light reddish tint thing. ...definitely an interesting read this post is.

It's important to do a lot of the leg work for them as they can't. So many calls that end up being rumor compared to what happened. Video on your phone, trail camera pics or anything else helps. If you see something going down don't report it after the fact. Do so while it's happening. Not saying this wasn't done. Just saying ECO can't be everywhere, police, and CSI. If there's road hunters or a lot of shots during archery get them to put up Robo deer. Record times when shots are heard or seen happening. It all helps.