dbHunterNY

I think that it's imperative to get the best harvest data from the system you've got. Doc's idea uses the existing system and so feasibility is there. I think that there's a vast majority that simply don't report harvests, because it's a hassle and there's nothing to remotely force them to do so. With the current system and way of extrapolating off the limited reports it's flawed. Flawed in the sense that it's a lagging response/corrective system. I think areas within WMUs that have more deer or less deer are so due to micro-management factors like crops, hunting pressure, hunter misunderstandings of how harvesting will effect population within a herd. That's where education has to come into play. People see ag ground with crappy woods holding all kinds of deer during warmer months and then late season into winter they think there's no deer because they were all shot off. Really the deer went to winter range elsewhere but close by to sustain them. Same thing when they confuse not seeing deer due to heavy hunting pressure with over harvest. regardless of this DEC is much better served with a higher reporting %. They admit a higher percentage would be better but are getting by with what they're getting. The details of when to report unfilled tags by, penalties for not reporting, etc. can be worked out but we aren't the ones to do it. I've seen many hunters pass doe all the time in high density areas only to have opportunity dry up later. allowing tags to be filled sooner than later will help both biologically and make the numbers of deer walking closer related to harvest numbers. DEC didn't see all those deer you passed early on. They see fewer deer because you didn't harvest any of them and then the opportunity dried up. Maintain the tagging abiltity to only tag 1 buck per portion of the annual season (early, reg, or late) but allow any tag to be filled sooner with that implement or lesser. (example: all three tags with bow early season, muzzleloader tag during rifle with a muzzleloader) you're creating more opportunity without changing the harvest number of doe or buck allowed. AR's or other stuff has to be considered if it's biologically sound. it can't be to make some people happy or no but it works with what we've got sort of thing. if that happens we'll always be divided and nothing will ever be fully accepted to see through. "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" doesn't apply. too simple of an analogy for this. you can and should be always be striving to make things better, otherwise you become obsolete in the eyes of the world.

anything involving the state takes a lot of effort, man power, and risk to put a plan into motion. just to pass the idea up through and reviewed for feasibility requires a lot peoples eyeballs and time. the idea is simple but implementation really isn't being there's many "nuts to bolts" details to work out and revamping the existing reporting system with required resources. It applies to many things in life. however, I never think "oh nobody is doing this yet so it must have be tried and failed, or it won't work". if there was something similarly reported efforts then I'm sure reasons are said why it failed. unless the those reasons apply then you can't compare the two and you can't assume it won't work otherwise without dissecting it all from start to finish. I like Docs idea of reporting every tag by end of season whether filled or not. it's not an end all solution but a piece to the puzzle. including fines/penalties for game violations should be more than they are now also need to happen. when repeat offenders caught over and over again are the norm, that means DEC isn't getting the point across.

...and don't forget it's only 250ft for crossbow and 150ft for bow. I hunt behind my house on 10 acres but it's the perfect location being a thick creek bottom leading into a corn field.

a whitetail deer is a ruminant animal. after 2 months old or so a fawn's stomach is fully developed with all four chambers which allow it to browse and graze, on plants. by bow season (October) it's 4-5 months old depending on how soon the doe was bred last season. by then they will sometimes nurse if the mother lets them, but have gotten what they can from their mother's milk. they're fine. that said I don't shoot fawns due to the risk of shooting a button buck which is part of your future pool of bucks.

raccoons, woodchuck, coyotes, crows, and pigeons. those are the ones that come to mind for this area.

that's a lot of dogs. we've got a few groups around here that run dogs for them and get probably around 30 per group of hunters in a good season. that military base I could see definitely being the yotes saving grace.

sounds like you were talking to some bad apples within the DEC. More I read Doc's idea the more I like it. You're required to report your harvest free of charge so what's the difference reporting at the end if you didn't. I wouldn't take away tags but fines after a couple automated warnings or mailings might do. we're not talking about registering guns here. they already know if you take something and that you have a license. the cost is minimal as it's already using a lot of infrastructure in place. I'm going to pass the idea around.

when I'm 73 years young I hope to heck I'm still shooting a bow. good to hear it all came together nice. every bow I tune for myself, family, or friends doesn't leave my hands for a prolonged period of time until it's shooting darn good. still can't figure out how more times than not it's my cousins' bows that I get shooting lazer beam like arrows. cheaper Diamond bows to Mathews bows, it just doesn't matter. lol you don't know it's that good until you see the arrow fly as an observer looking over a shoulder either. hard to explain without seeing it.

there's a lot of strings and string makers out there. strings with different materials can sometimes be much cheaper as there's more demand for other materials. BCY-X and 452X are some of the better most stable materials out there right now. if you get a $60 string set you're paying someone to install it unless you know a buddy that can. so like you said you're around $110 for your string. I said that $110 string is pretty much the cost but includes hidden install costs, but they say that's the cost of the string. as a dealer for a string mfg a shop gets it slightly cheaper but then has a slight makeup so they can make some money/pay for the person working there installing your string. so you see it's not expensive at all depending on how you look at it.

strings are the heart of a bow and many times if you replace a cam due a draw length change of that much the string and cable are different in length from what was on it. I didn't add install cost to the prices as it's usually what you said. you buy it from them at a set price and they'll install it for free, but really the price is a little higher to make this cost up. many archery shops go through a middle man distributor too. that's why you can find so many new stuff online cheaper. you're paying for the service which to most is and should be a necessity. D-loops are usually throw in at no charge but sometimes it depends on the day.

I haven't ever heard of that except from you so maybe it's an isolated or small percentage of people that might do that. a little education might make them think twice about that. from a management stand point that'd make it look like there's more deer opposed to what might be there. they see it as continuously filled tags and hand out more that get filled. DEC thinks there's a herd there to support the inflated number of tags. seems to be a ticking time bomb if you ask me. I'm all for this idea... I think it's feasible and it'd work plenty well enough to get better, more accurate, info into DEC's hands.

New cam.... $75-90 installed single Cam string set for BCY-X or 452X material.... $110 installed G5 Meta Peep... $25 installed QAD UltraRest LD....$110 installed D-loop/nock point....$10 installed Limbsaver S-Coil stabilizer....$19 so you're around $350 ish for a whole revamped setup. honestly you can get the stuff a little cheaper if you order on something like eBay but shop won't install it free of charge.

i'll have to try to kisser button and see how that works. right now i'll draw top finger to the corner of my mouth, the first knuckle of my thumb touches the point/corner of my jaw bone, and my bottom finger along bottom of my jaw by my chin. ... I focus on target and nothing else but i'll notice the blurry arrow and arrow tip are pointed toward the target.

to have those kind of bucks cruising from neighboring properties is an awesome thing. must not be hunted hard or they're passing up young bucks.

Seahawks, 31 to 27

I'm relatively new to shooting trad and instinctive. I've stuck with shooting both eyes open, right handed, and left eye dominant. Any you experienced trad guys here think that's weird and I should change do to foreseeable problems? Second, I shoot one up and two under. I've found I'm more consistent and can feel the string better with a thinner Damascus glove. Anyone relate to this?

hope it's a good turn out

interesting... i just know that my trad range is 15 yards and my compound range is much, much, further. i take a lot of things into account when determining if a deer is too far. I'd say treat it the same as your compound in terms of determining your effective range. if you shoot at half the distance you practice with a compound then do that with the trad gear. also keep in mind there's not as much KE from a trad bow so heavy arrows of 500+ finished grains and a good cut on contact broadhead is a good idea. do your part in being proficient and keep in mind that things happen.

i think we're saying it could be a lot better and more productive. everything in place works now to the extent deer are there and not going away. I'm with you in that to achieve what i said everywhere you have to do things different and better suited for each area. I'm not a fan of a 1 buck rule or lottery opposed to an AR with point AND beam length/spread for purposes of management to only protect 1.5 year olds regardless of where you are and how many deer you are around. I'm all for allowing more flexibility to allow tags to be filled sooner with doe than later to help with capitalize on doe harvest in areas of greater opportunity. access is tough to deal with meaning those that don't want you hunting on their land is what it is. I'm not against promoting access though. i think the tax break would be exploited unless it was part of multiple things in which the land owner worked with DEC (access, reporting for herd monitoring surveys maybe, etc.) they could limit landowners participation to so many years on and then so many off to rotate opportunity for others input. have a certain number based on size or how much additional info is required of that WMU (or WMU aggregates their working on). same goes for areas with lower deer numbers due to poor habitat. there should be education and emphasis/kick backs for improving habitat. I've posted a ideas for this elsewhere. people have to not think about big bucks first. think about how to make deer and hunting in general better off and bigger bucks than what you've got will follow. same as in other areas of the country where a local deer herd is hit with disease or winter die offs hunters have to realize that some years the deer don't do so well and your harvest decisions have to account for that. when a hunter shoots a deer this year he or she's thinking about this year when they should be thinking about if i shoot what will happen to the deer next year. lastly legislation can't be apart of it... it comes and goes with those in power and their cares for that day. conservation efforts shouldn't die because the legislation for it ran it's course and it just didn't get voted back in.

no... i didn't say anything about 1.5 year old bucks or mature bucks in that last post. balanced just means everything is as it should be (buck to doe ratio, deer per acre for where they live, etc.) young bucks do a majority of the breeding in a free ranging herd where ever you are... i believe that's right.

you're taking a system that isn't working the best and you're going to apply it to a smaller number of deer (now bucks versus doe) and now all the deer. doesn't seem to me like it'd work any better and if anything it'd make things worse. Season to season an AR still gives you a chance at harvesting a buck and especially after a couple years. where as lottery could eliminate it all together for a season. there's a difference. it's of my opinion that there's better ways like ARs to fix things that will give more an opportunity or chance and thus would be probably be more excepted. I'm making an educated assumption as lottery wasn't in the paper's poll.

it's more about a sustainable deer herd that can better deal with natural causes to their demise. an unbalanced herd can't recover as quickly numbers wise from things like disease, predators moving in, over harvest by hunters, and harsh winters die offs. also related to that a lot of deer is no good if the habitat can't support them, forms of native browse the deer depend on get wiped out and never recover to grow back. now deer are more screwed going into next year with land that can hold less than the year before regardless of what management you do with deer. also a healthier balanced herd will allow more harvest pressure year after year because they're more productive. quantity doesn't mean quality but you'll get consumable quantity from quality. would it be different if we said we're behind the 8 ball when it comes to education?

thinking about it and how well it'd work would be dependent on a couple things. one thing to consider is you're letting a lottery winner take whatever buck. so you have no control over what age class is taken. you're instead looking at it as i want to give out this number of buck tags based on how many deer are in each WMU and how many bucks compared to doe there are. then after each season have a way to assess numbers of each to know if more or less need to be handed out. aside from a check station there's no way to get this information. they couldn't rely on hunter surveys because most will pass on what they observe once the season has started which is skewed info. another big problem is without education and being specific in DEC's needs of us hunters as management tools, it's a temporary band aid. once the buck population catches up a lottery might be not applicable. as you allow more tags hunters are still taking what they see 1.5 yr old or not with no concept of cause and effect. hunters need to know what they're doing, why they're doing it, and at some point accept it. another problem that i said to ignore is hunters acceptance toward the management tool used (the lottery). lotteries from what i hear are less excepted. especially after you just told that land owner the pays 5 figures worth of taxes a year he can't even have a chance at shooting a buck this year. which may or may not be ok. depends if there's another way that works just as well that would more readily accepted.

you're right in that it could work that way but it'll only work well enough. a lot will do as you said and shoot a doe and continue to hold out for their one buck throughout the season. however, many hunters will settle once the season gets closer to an end. that one buck could and most likely will be a younger deer as that's what's around right now. you shoot what you see and usually see what you shoot. DEC has stated that their objective is to protect yearling bucks. if they're planning on doing something with a goal in mind then just do it and don't jerk around. why would you put something in place that only protects some compared to almost all. if you pass yearlings and shoot 2.5 year old and older bucks, you will see them year after year. especially if everyone is your WMU are doing the same. sure some will be bent at first but they'll get over it when the hunting is better do to a better managed deer herd. if it doesn't work then fine, figure it out, and try something different. many groups and states have already done the homework for them. they just have to act.

it's not about protecting more deer, just the right deer. lottery systems are more for herd populations with lower numbers, such that you can't have over the counter tags for whomever wants to buy them. I mean I know places like Kansas do it but they have a much larger demand to hunt there. in those states the vast majority of hunters are passing younger deer voluntarily. I think our situation in NY is different.