Four Season Whitetail's

Thats cool but i have to ask...Would this 2 1/2 9pt be your biggest buck to date with bow or gun?

Its all about choices my friend.. Do you remember a time when you had no scope to put on your gun? Do you remember when there were no computers or cell phones. Its the way the world is growing thats causing the spike in high fence. The states cant manage the lands or the herds. Why will a guy any longer spend thousands at an outfitters farm just for a chance to see a 140in buck let alone get a shot an harvest that animal. Or spend huge money to outfit himself with gear to go hunt state land that has no deer? I find myself involved in a very big high dollar business that i and many others are doing very well with. I sure didnt spend 40 grand plus to start a business to lose at. 3 short years later the colors have changed in my business and its now all gravy from here. Its called product and demand...And the demand is huge!

Small enclosers, I agree but anytime you want to go to the places i do business with...700-1200 acre enclosers...and you can pick out a buck from a trail cam pic, I will give ya 3 days to drag that buck out of there and then you can tell me about canned hunts. I have one place of 1200 aces that i would give ya 2 weeks to pull a trail cam pic buck out of. Trust me, Its not as easy as you may believe. As far as the 2 year olds that cant hold their heads up are few and far between. As far as the hunting world..There are thousands of people across the country that would disagree with ya and i believe within 5 more years you are going to see a growth beyond anyones expectations!

Thats awesome...I have a 300Wby Mag and love it. They may be over kill in alot of places but man if you hunt open hayfields where you may get long range shots....You will love it also!

The underlying ethics of North America’s hunting heritage were well articulated by early conservation pioneers such as Teddy Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold. We believe that to the vast majority of hunters, deer hunting is the pursuit of wild deer produced without direct human contact or artificial manipulation that are hunted and harvested in an ethical manner. We adhere to Webster’s definition of “wild” as follows: “living in a state of nature not ordinarily tame or domesticated.” Therefore, we don’t agree we are dividing hunters, but rather distinguishing between hunting and shooting based on whether or not the quarry is wild. While practices such as Internet shooting, poaching, and canned shoots involve killing of animals, the hunting community, as well as the majority of the non-hunting public, widely reject these practices as hunting.(Quote) I agree..Great talk and to a point im on board with the QDMA way. But the statement above that they put out themselves shows how concerned they are about us growing big bucks for high fence hunts puts a threat on their way of thinking!

Ya know, Its funny that you keep throwing the words..Canned Hunts..in your statements. I have to say that i do not know of any ranches less than 300 acres. Most hunters never get to hunt 300 solid acres.Im sure there are some with less but a couple bad apples does not cover us all. You also talk of the animals we sell. Do the guys that sell beef cattle sell them for the taste or the marble of their meat? Do lambs get taken out at a young age for a reason? You and many cant seem to handle the fact that Whitetails are now farmed livestock. I can show you on my Ag Dept report where the word deer are right along with every other livestock when they send me my report every year. You say deer hunting is big business, Well trust me when i say when i sell my deer each year, I know how big high fence business is. You sound like a bright man so i would say you know that no business will survive without demand. Well i can tell you that most every state outside of Texas cant supply the number of bucks that ranch owners need to buy to keep their hunt requests full. Ny was top on the list of bucks wanted. When a failed dairy farm can put that land into whitetails and make 50 grand a year selling a handfull of deer is some pretty good livstock farming and many,many are learning that every year and doing just that. Trust me when i say i was a hunter with many acres of land before i became a farmer and i will always be a hunter first and if i thought for one second that my deer inside fence were in any way a threat to the deer on the 700 acres outside the fence, They would be gone. Groups like QDMA use CWD as an excuss to take shots at us and that is coming back to bite them every year that we learn more about CWD and how it shows up. I would be safe to say that 90% of the people on this site does not even know the facts of the cases of CWD that showed up in our state!.

Try more like he is going to throw around the truth and after reading your statement it proves you are not real sure what the truth is? Do some research my friend!!!

Look on the bright side...Everybody grows up from shooting the dumbest deer in the woods sooner or later!

Because thats the one place that i can find bucks that come some what close to the size of my yearlings!!!!

Not much of a farm boy huh Steve? In case ya dont know,Thats how it works for most livestock! Including Whitetails!!!!

So what you are saying is that QDMA can pick and choose what is high fence as long as it works out for them? A fence is a fence! I should have said fearless leaders...Do you know a Chris Asplundh? Lets read between the lines on QDMA'S stance on high fence! So Frequently Asked Questions About QDMA’s Stance on Captive Deer Breeding On February 23, 2012 the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA) issued a national press release urging its members and other concerned sportsmen in several states to contact their elected officials and urge them to oppose legislation initiated by the deer breeding industry that would enable introduction of captive deer breeding operations or expansion of these practices within those states. QDMA supports the legal, ethical pursuit and taking of wild deer living in adequate native/naturalized habitat in a manner that does not give the hunter an unfair advantage and provides the hunted animals with a reasonable opportunity to escape the hunter. QDMA is not opposing high-fence operations that meet the above conditions. READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes that wearing camouflage clothing and wearing scent blockers while ambushing unsuspecting deer, with the hunter high in a tree, does not give the hunter an unfair advantage. After all, the deer has the option to visually search out each tree, looking for objects or forms larger than a squirrel plus the deer should have known better than to be walking around in daylight hours during hunting season. What is the captive deer breeding industry? The captive deer breeding industry (also called the deer farming industry or captive cervid industry) uses artificial means to breed captive deer for profit – typically realized through sales of live animals for controlled breeding and shooting, as well as semen and embryos. Current estimates suggest there are more than 10,000 deer breeders in North America. In general, breeders seek to establish one or more genetic “lines” of deer to produce bucks with the antler size and configuration they desire. Bucks that do not meet this objective typically are sold to fenced shooting preserves, with some killed only days or weeks after release. READING BETWEEN THE LINES; The captive deer breeding industry is producing superior deer with bigger antlers and a larger body size. In most cases, even their culls are more superior than wild free ranging deer thus creating a disadvantage for QDMA hunters. The process of selective breeding typically requires animals of known and often narrow pedigrees to be intensively handled and frequently medicated. Bucks from which semen is collected often are physically or chemically restrained and subjected to electro-ejaculation, whereby an electric probe is inserted into the buck’s rectum and energized until ejaculation occurs. In does, artificial insemination is common, whereby a doe may be stimulated to ovulate through use of estrous-synchronizing drugs, followed typically by insertion of semen into the doe’s reproductive tract. READING BETWEEN THE LINES; The captive deer breeding industry does a great job caring for their deer by vaccinating and medicating them to prevent disease and to control parasites. Some Government Wildlife Agencies and many QDMA people rely on disease and parasites to help control the over population of free ranging deer. While artificial insemination is a humane and accepted practice all around the world, QDMA people see this as an unfair advantage as they simply cannot compete which such tactics and therefore are left to manage their smaller inferior deer that in some cases are diseased. Examples: Yellowstone National Park and Rocky Mountain National Park plus smaller properties own by individuals all over the country. Why is this issue one that QDMA felt the need to address? QDMA’s mission is to ensure the future of white-tailed deer, wildlife habitat and our hunting heritage. This mission is specific to wild white-tailed deer, not those genetically altered, artificially created and human-habituated. QDMA believes that growth and expansion of the captive deer breeding industry could threaten North America’s wild white-tailed deer and the deer-hunting heritage. QDMA is responding to aggressive moves to legalize deer breeding in several new states and to loosen regulations in others. Previously, such efforts were limited to just a few states annually (which QDMA also opposed). However, during the 2012 legislative season, this number swelled to nine states. Simply stated, QDMA believes the potential negative implications warrant our actions. READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA’s mission is to ensure the future of QDMA by eliminating the competition by whatever means possible because they cannot compete with the captive deer breeding industry. Too many past QDMA supporters have made the switch to hunting behind high fence for superior deer that have proved to be healthier. Many hunters are no longer willing to hunt free ranging diseased herds. Isn’t this a private property rights issue? QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights, especially those which do not infringe on our members’ rights to hunt healthy, wild, white-tailed deer on the properties they own, manage or hunt. Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, wildlife, including white-tailed deer, are collectively owned by all citizens rather than individuals. We contend that captive deer breeding facilities infringe upon the tenets of the North American Model. Thus, we see this as a resource issue (use, access, and allocation) rather than a private property rights issue. READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA has a long history of supporting private property rights as long as there is no competition from the captive deer breeding industry. QDMA feels that people in the captive deer breeding industry have no rights. Under the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation and the Public Trust Doctrine, there is no mention of competition and therefore it cannot be allowed. QDMA believes this is not a free country where private property owners can just do as they please. Isn’t this just dividing hunters? The underlying ethics of North America’s hunting heritage were well articulated by early conservation pioneers such as Teddy Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold. We believe that to the vast majority of hunters, deer hunting is the pursuit of wild deer produced without direct human contact or artificial manipulation that are hunted and harvested in an ethical manner. We adhere to Webster’s definition of “wild” as follows: “living in a state of nature not ordinarily tame or domesticated.” Therefore, we don’t agree we are dividing hunters, but rather distinguishing between hunting and shooting based on whether or not the quarry is wild. While practices such as Internet shooting, poaching, and canned shoots involve killing of animals, the hunting community, as well as the majority of the non-hunting public, widely reject these practices as hunting. READING BETWEEN THE LINES; QDMA believes it is the pursuit of their happiness that matters. It's their way or no way. No one else is allowed to have an opinion or a choice about how they hunt. They believe the way they ambush a deer should be the only way because after all, free ranging deer at least have a chance to escape by out running that high speed bullet. Can a deer distinguish between a hunter's bullet and a shooter's bullet? Is the deer any less dead?

Well Steve i hate to say it but i hope you and most every other hunter continues to feel that very same way. If you ask...Or look at our walls..of the little group of us that do this year in and year out, you will hear the same answer. I dont need envy or company....I need bone. Just a fact for me and i would in no way be afraid or ashamed to admit it.

Ha Ha...You know that QDMA crap is a joke. They hook up with tree huggers and animal rights groups to try a fight against us and the whole time they are blind to the fact that the group they are partners with now has them in their sights to try and take out next. They want all high fence and low fence hunting gone! The only problem i have with those that represent QDMA is the two faced talking of them all. Kind of like the fact that their fearless leader in fact has a vested intrest in a deer farm in Pa!!! Or maybe its the fact that they say they are against high fence farming and hunting yet when you look at their fundraiser every year they auction off high fence hunts that are donated to them and they put thousands of dollars in their pockets from the high fence guys. Or maybe its guys like Don H that talk smack about high fence yet he raises Whitetails and has for years but he does not talk about the 20 to 50 grand a years in checks that he makes from selling semen and 200in bucks for high fence hunters. Or maybe its the way they tried to use CWD as a way to try and slow down our growth because they see their way of life going down hill every year but they see more and more fence go up all across the country because most states cant manage their public herds and public hunting grounds so more and more folks are visiting high fence ranches every year. But besides all that. When it comes down to it im just like the rest of them and i practice QDM so i can have better TDM on my 700 acres! Note..I am one of the 546 farms that raise whitetails in Ny state!!!

Yeah like QDMA has all the answers. Read some of those thoughts and you have people doing TDM while they are thinking they are doing QDM!!! I do agree that AR would not be good in all parts of the state. But in many im sure alot of guys would vote for it!

Grab yourself 300ft of rope and start climbing down. I will show ya where they are! Just make sure you make yourself a buddy to drag for you though. Take a hand cart, mount a winch with at least 500ft of cable on it, Lay a couple marine batteries on the handcart to charge the winch. When you kill that buck down there you take the cart to the edge of the gorge, Rachet strap the cart to a tree and throw the hook down to your buddy on the bottom. He hooks the buck to the sleds( That stay down there all year) and start the winch. Up he comes! Notice...I say buck and he? If someone shoots a doe or a buck they dont plan on mounting down there when they are hunting with me....There on their own!!! Note...I have never seen another tree stand where i hunt on the bottom!

Yup, Went down Sunday and moved a few stands around on the river. I was shocked to see the amount of sign down on the river bank this early. Im a firm believer that many mature deer call the bottom home all year long. Its like its built into them...Up by night and Down by day. Reguardless of hunting pressure!

I would like to see the 1 buck rule myself. Cut the north season, leave the south. Change up the dates with the one buck rule so there are no gun seasons during any part of the rut. Then we would have more of the Ohio,ill look in our whitetails that many say we could never have!

Im pushin the big 50 come Nov and im in pretty decent shape but man i went down to Letchworth this past weekend and 3 times of climbing up and down 300ft of rope shows ya just how much decent shape may not cut it. But ya gotta do what ya gotta do to tag those ridge runners!

Acorn's???

I could never understand the part of...Nobody owns the deer! Well the way i look at it is..If that deer is on MY 700 acres of POSTED PROPERTY and YOU do not have permission to go on that land to get that deer, Well then I own him untill he walks off of that piece of POSTED PROPERTY!

Yea kinda like cwd was going to kill every herd in every state it was ever found in and now every state that has cwd has a stronger population and setting records every year in the record books!!!!!!

How right you are. I have had a couple guys earn their way on our 700 acres by lending a hand on the farm or helping with the deer. I also agree with Sits as far as state land. We have 700 plus acres of top hunting in our area but i still find myself driving 21/2 hours one way to Letchworth every other weekend and 2 full weeks during bow and late bow and muzzle. Just something about those big Mtn Goats that run that park that trips my trigger!

For lower lbs draw weight you wont find a better hear than the Stingers cut on contact. After back operation had to lower weight. Still blow threw them at 55lbs draw. Blood trails are unreal also.

It would never happen in Ny untill some laws were changed. If you notice alot of the better buck states only allow shotgun hunting. They also do not allow guns during the rut. Add a one buck per season on top of all that then you would be on your way to a great state to hunt in. Trying to get most Ny hunters to agree with any of those laws would be tough at best!

8m and 8H. Like to have one in my pocket during bow on letchworth. Never know when one of those white girls may walk the river bank!