nyantler

Way to go shooter!!

You can measure it with just the skull cap as long as it is still intact and not split in two... basically you just need the area between the bases to be intact so that the spread measurement isn't compromised... so try not to shoot you buck between the eyes if he's a bruiser... you wouldn't want to split the skull plate if you had the next state record. Except for you SteveB you can shoot the skull plate apart since you aren't entering it anyway..lol Sheds can also be measured for the recordbook if both sides are found, but they are all given an 18" spread measurement and are not eligible as an official state record.

Dave.. you always get them to smile for the camera!!

I would say a Pine tree

Yeah I suppose you're right... they have a tight rope to walk sometimes trying to make hunters and politicians happy and still do their best for the conservation effort... I still think that population control could be done more effectively than just handing out doe tags that a hunter may or may not be willing or able to fill.. I realize that not all hunters can or will be successful, but there are many hunters that eat their doe tags because they are not willing to use them until their buck tag has been filled and some even end up eating all their tags because a buck opportunity doesn't arise.. I would like to see them issue a set amount of tags per WMU on a first come first serve basis to anyone who wants one, but you must use it first and report it before you can fill your buck tag.

Yeah I suppose you're right... they have a tight rope to walk sometimes trying to make hunters and politicians happy and still do their best for the conservation effort... I still think that population control could be done more effectively than just handing out doe tags that a hunter may or mayy not be willing or able to fill.. I realize that not all hunters can or will be successful, but there are many hunters that eat their doe tags because they are not willing to use them until their buck tag has been filled and some even end up eating all their tags because a buck opportunity doesn't arise.. I would like to see them issue a set amount of tags per WMU on a first come first serve basis to anyone who wants one, but you must use it first and report it before you can fill your buck tag.

I have killed more deer using a call than any other single hunting tool other than my weapon. I never go into th woods without a call... I call all throughout the hunting season. This time of year is a great time to call... deer are naturally curious animals and will react to a call this time of year just to investigate what they percieve as a familiar sound... young bucks are especially easy to call early... yearling bucks are usually new to the area and like any teenager they are looking for some action... any new sound or somewhat familiar sound sparks their attention and they will come to see if they can make a new friend... sometimes they will run to the call.. bigger bucks will also come to the call, but in my experience they will always (100% of the time) move downwind before approaching the spot that the call came from usually busting the hunter long before he gets into bow range... in and area where a big buck can see a long ways like an open field he will expect to see what made the call, if he doesn't, he will be very skiddish while investigating it's source so don't expect him to just prance straight over to your stand.. he will make a big circle and get his nose into the wind first and approach from inside the cover. I have never seen a young buck ignore any call.. I have though seen several big bucks act as if they never even heard it.. even though I know that they did. For smaller bucks you really don't even have to be a good caller.. for bigger bucks you had better sound like a deer.

I think you're probably right Doc... that is the common sense answer... I think also the food plots still allow the deer to feed in a somewhat natural way... they are not drawn to a pin point location like a pile or feeder, but still have a choice as to which end of the plot they prefer to feed... and for the hunter there is still some sense of fair chase not knowing exactly where the deer will feed at any given time... Personally I'm still up in the air about whether I can ever warm up to food plots... I prefer enhancing browse areas and trimming existing apple trees to introducing new food sources like beets, and turnips... although I do understand that it makes it easier for the deer and I'm not really AGAINST food plotting... I still just have trouble warming up to it as a hunting tool.

I think every decision they make has to do with hunter cooperation... there is no reason that both gender ratios and populations can't be controlled at the same time... optimizing everything about the herd should be priority... the reality is that everything the DEC could do to achieve both objectives will get too much resistance from the hunting community so they back off

The DEC absolutely has the ability to do it.... but could they get hunters to cooperate is really the question... the DEC will not take drastic steps really to reduce over-all populations to the extent needed to balance the ratios because of the resistance they know they'll get from a good portion of the hunting communty... and I agree that under the current management program gender ratios are a non existent thought for the DEC.. so with all that... yes, I guess you're right that it is a day dream to believe that balanced gender ratios or true population control will ever really be achieved in NY. At least in our lifetime...

I can tell you really don't understand how buck;doe ratios affect or don't affect population growth... it doesn't work the way you describe... at least at a ratio of 60:40... your argument would only be valid if the ratio favored buck numbers over doe numbers. In which case a reduction in doe tags would solve the problem... You have to remember too that we're talking about optimizing ratios here not catering to the personal wants of individual hunters..

I agree Sam that the drastic drop in population has finally brought the herd to a managable level... sometime hunters don't realize that what hunters want and whats best for the deer are two different things.

There really is no "broad brush" right population.. everything depends on how many deer the area can support... as far as buck:doe ratios are concerned.. 1:1 is optimum but probably never achievable here in NY with hunter attitudes... if the ratios ever got to 3:1 that would be quite an accomplishment. Hunters scream that there aren't a lot of bucks or any quality bucks in their area but are not willing to do what it takes to get there... For every 100 deer... why would hunters want 80 does and 20 bucks... when they could have 60 does and 40 bucks?

Hmmm.. I actually am inclined to agree with your last paragraph and maybe a bit of the first as well.

Very true... except for the part about a spike being a spike his whole life... it is extremely rare to find a spike buck that is older than 1.5.... even rarer to see one sporting spikes in old age... it is one of the biggest fallicies in the hunting world... of all the older (over 2.5) deer killed in the last 40 years in NY.. there is less than a handful that have been found to sport spike racks.. and the ones that are known were also known to have had an injury that caused their rack to be dwarfed. I have spent many years talking to many DEC biologists, encon officers and taxidermists on this very subject... when asked the question of how many older bucks they have witnessed with spike racks in there lifetime of dealing with deer harvests not a one has seen a natural occuring mature spike rack buck.

Yeah..I think the wife likes that it's the only time of the year that I wash my own clothes..lol

Good point.. a point many hunters don't understand... seeing a lot of deer is not always a good thing... and seeing less deer is not necessarly a bad thing

Thats like saying because you hang around a service station you know something about fixing cars... you could ask 1000 hunters in that area about what they have observed an you would get 1000 different stories... just because you hunt in an AR area doesn't mean you know whats going on there... th proof is in the actual numbers. Here is an example of hunter observation vs actuality... I lease 1000 acres with 12 other guys... in the last 10 years I have taken 5 bucks that score over 115 off the property and have seen literally 100's of bucks half of which I've taken a pass on... 4 other guys have taken a few over 115 as well and have seen many other bucks as well... but 8 of the hunters continue to complain that there are not many bucks on the property because they have seen very few in the last 10 years and none of them has taken a buck in those 10 years... their reality is not my reality, or the reality of the other 4 guys on the same piece of property... I contend that they know very little about what is really going on with the deer in that area... so 8 of 13 guys on the property if asked would say the hunting sucks there... their knowledge comes from their lack of ability to see and kill deer on the property.... the other 5 of us have walls full of bucks that have come from the property all during the same time span... so do you to take the opinion of the fellas that just haven't seen deer or killed deer...or the proof of the fellas that actually have seen and harvested many bucks on the property to determine how good of a hunting spot it is?

No one really knows... for a new hunter it may be hard seeing and killing a deer regardless of AR's.. their best chance is to get some doe tags and hunt where the doe populations are high... If I'm that desperate for food to feed my family that I'm going to kill my own... it wouldn't matter what the law was.

Always interested in any new product that comes out of NY

Eddie that pic has been around since Sitting Bull was a calf!!

Quite a few.

Not having an AR in Pa isn't going to stop the few that have a lot of acreage tied up from continuing what they're doing though.... They will still suck the deer from all over without AR's they will just be younger deer.

I might have been a state record... but no.

I'll give detail when and if I can... we'll see what happens.