nyantler

With all the money spent on meaningless surveys to such small ssmples of hunters... they could have just one questionaire.. that comes each year with your license that can be run through a computer for results... that could also have a yes/no report on your previous years hunting success. That might be too simple though

AS far as I know there is no law against selling it.. just against using it. For all anyone knows guys are buying for out of state hunts.

Although I agree with you on keeping this kind of thing out of the hands of politicians... if the DEC didn't drag it's feet on issues like this and make definitive decisions.. then groups wouldn't be going over there head to their friends in politics... I think I said a long time ago here that AR's are coming whether all hunters like it or not.. better to have it in the DEC's hand than the legislature ... the same thing will happen with crossbows in bow season... just wait and see.

A conclusion based on 4000 hunters... thats out of what? 800,000... I still have never gotten surveyed.

I noticed that right off.. he changed it and changed it back... I'm sure he's been $%!ting his britches since he posted this... It doesn't look good for him... He didn't have it scored as far as I know... otherwise He'd have had a tough time explaining things... I'd be curious if he even reported either buck.. ;D HE didnt change it back, it was changed back for him. Ahhhh .. and the plot thickens my dear Watson!

It also could be that they just don't have the willpower to pass on a small buck and want an AR law with consequences for killing a smaller buck to help them...

Having an AR in a vast area with low deer density does nothing to hurt the herd in that area... places as remote as where you hunt are seldom hunted heavily because of the vastness... low density is different than low population.. the land might be at its carrying capacity based on the food source... AR's probably would have little impact in that area... so yes.. maybe not necessary but definitely won't impact the deer herd there much... averaging 2 bucks a year in a remote area is nothing to sneeze at.. and it doesn't sound like AR's will cause any problem where you hunt... and usually guys that hunt remote areas are voluntarily taking bigger bucks anyway so they would be more apt to be in favor of AR's.

If there is all of this supprt for it....why are so many 1.5's getting wacked?. the 50-70% supporters don't practice it?...but support it? Some do some don't. When there isnt anything else.... They only support someone else doing it..lol

Gotcha... I have that problem too... I have to google words sometimes

I noticed that right off.. he changed it and changed it back... I'm sure he's been $%!ting his britches since he posted this... It doesn't look good for him... He didn't have it scored as far as I know... otherwise He'd have had a tough time explaining things... I'd be curious if he even reported either buck.. ;D

So now that we have figured that the buck was taken illegally.. has anyone called an EnCon Officer on the guy? Let them sort out the details.

The drops make his rake look much bigger than it really is... definitely a handsome 2 year old on his way to being a monster

Good copy and paste Larry :

Nobody is saying you can't take home venison... it just has to have at least 3 points on a side...

Been doing it long enough... I was hoping I learned something

He's already a big boy

Ohio's program works well for them.. I think it would be great here... I'm not sure NYers would really like the one buck rule or having to pay $15 for a doe permit... plus $24 for a license.. $19 for deer permit... and if you're a turkey hunter you have to by a permit for spring and fall at $24 a piece... throw in fishing and you're paying more than the super sportsman here...All that would go over like a lead balloon... As for the before season ratio.. it is theoretically possible... because of the average ratio buck to doe fawns born(51% bucks: 49%does) if you ended the season with 12:1... you would be very close to that same number come hunting season the following year. No its still impossible. If you had 100 does and NO, 0, bucks left after season, next year you would have say (just for example of 1 fawn recruited per doe) 50 yearling bucks and 50 yearling does (from this yrs fawns)= a new ratio for next yr of 150 does to 50 antlered 1.5 bucks, or 3:1. You can repeat this for 100 yrs and it won't change much, unless you discriminately kill buttons or if you have a serious fawn recruitment problem where your herd is drastically shrinking, and then you have bigger issues than buck/doe ratio. Sure you have to account that some bucks will be hit by cars etc, but you see the point. Sometimes observed ratios are not accurate. Often we count fawns as 'does' in observation, and if you are not in the area the batchlor groups are, you are going to miss all the bucks, squewing your ratios. I stand corrected...

That 10 is a 150 + class buck easy!

What a great bird!!

That was the point I was trying to make...

Yeah but look at what we would save in Social Security entitlements ...... ;D Also, judging by the teenage pregnancy problems, perhaps the younger deer would be as super-prolific as our human teenagers ..... eh? You sure wouldn't want to leave the breeding up to those 60 and 70 year olds.....lol. Ok, I understand what you are trying to say. I just thought it might be a good time to lighten things up a bit I laughed... and you have a point about leaving the breeding to 60 and 70 year olds...lets change that to 30 and 40.. we don't need anyone spraining anything!!

I am soooo glad my wife doesn't have any interest in hunting or golf.. But she is glad that I don't have any interest in shopping or scrapbooking with the girls....Now that is true love!!

You're still not listening Larry.. it's not about killing bigger deer. It's about balancing the age structure in bucks... the real problem is hunters like you can't get the big deer thing out of their head and look at it from a management standpoint. Joe, Please explain the balanced age structure thing. If it has been talked about elsewhere just point me in that direction. Thanks Burt.. 5.9 pretty much summed it up... NY has a very unbalanced buck age structure in most areas due to the amount of young bucks being killed.. which doesn't allow for a good age representation in each age group... To explain it better.. it would be like having a country where 85% of the population were teenagers and only 15% of males over the age of 18.. where possibly there are no males in their 60s or 70's. That would cause major social problems in the human world... it's no different in the whitetail world. Having a balanced age structure among the male population allows young males to grow and mature and reach their potential... as they reach their potential some bucks will become smarter and stronger than others based on gained experience and learned abilities to adapt to situations that younger bucks have not had time to learn or experience... as the herd evolves those bigger stronger bucks become dominant and pass their genetics on to the new offspring which will have a greater chance of developing into similar dominant bucks... just think what the world would be like if teenagers made all the decisions and started doing all the breeding at the age of puberty... It would be one screwed up world...

Here again Larry you aren't paying attention... you said AR's are being used for population control... I explained exactly how to achieve the same results without AR's... If in fact that is their reasoning for using AR's is to control population.. then I gaurantee it is going to fail... antler restrictions serve one purpose only and that is to decrease the number of younger bucks being killed.. it has no affect on population control that can't be attained by just issuing doe first tags or just issuing more tags period... whoever thought of using AR's to decrease deer population in Letchworth has no idea what they are doing... and you using Letchworth's ingnorance for using them to control population as an argument against AR's is still ridiculus.. THAT IS IT.. END OF STORY

great pics... some of you guys should post those up on the trailcam section of my site.. some of you fellas have some great cam stuff!!