nyantler

( "Does anyone but me see the peculiarity that all the "experts" tell us that in order to have monster bucks, you have to beat the hell out of your doe herd until they are nearly non-existant or until there is something close to a 1:1 gender ratio") What credible expert that knows anything about management model has ever said " beat the hell out your doe herd" thats not even remotely part of what QDM or any true expert would say when it comes to managing a herd. Thats the kind of ignorant staements that we're talking about. And telling you that you don't know what you're taking about and that you spout a lot of BS about things you know nothing about, is not losing control. I read everything you write, not just the first few words, cuz I don't want to miss any of the entertaining crap you put out there. I probably should stop at the first few words, because it gets more and more ridiculous as I read on in your posts. Localqdm.. it might have been harsh but Doc's a big boy.. I think he can handle it.

It would depend on the size of the area... its hard to work ratios in a small area because of transiant deer... but if we were talking about a whole DMU.. definitely better than what it is now. But remember if the ratio starts out skewed it will remain skewed for quite some time. The whole thing with managing is to get the ratios and age structures in check first, then alter the management plan to "maintain" rather than fix. Not every area needs to cut out huge amounts of doe, but some areas do... a place like vast parts the adirondacks have better ratio's hence no doe tags in much of the adirondacks.

Saw 10 at one time, 3 bucks in the pile all little guys though... could have taken any one of them from the ground. Called the smallest one (a small 3 point) to within 20 yards before he became disinterested. Circled around the the property and cut them off again to see if they might pick up a bigger buck. They hadn't.. they finaly got a little too close and caught my wind and that ended that..lol

I would agree that some QDMers go overboard with how skewed they claim the ratios are. And I also agree that getting better than 3:1 would be a difficult task. But, the more difficult task is educating some hunters of the benefits of a good overall deer management program that involves protecting young bucks. I think the biggest resistance lies with guys not having the self restraint to pass up a buck. I think if the DEC issued all hunters 1 tag where they could harvest either sex. There would so called "meat" hunters that would pass on a doe for 1.5 yr old buck. just my opinion

Sorry, Bleitten but thats not true necessarily.. a late born buck fawn with great genetics can still be a spike. Although there are other opinions on whether or not it would be better to cull spikes to further better genetics.. the truth is that nobody knows the true potential of a buck until that buck reaches his FULL potential... and rather than speculate, some whitetail breeders have actually kept logs on their spike horns and some of the racks that these bucks grew were enormous... there have also been studies of tagged spikes in the wild with the same results. I am of the notion that for most hunters it is easier to find an excuse to shoot a young buck than it is to defend the reasoning for why he let it walk. I also believe for most hunters its more of an ego thing... they would rather cut their tongue out than have to tell their buddies they didn't get a buck this year.

I agree its defintiely 160 class.. but there is a lot of difference between corrsponding tine lengths if you look close.. the g4's and g2's

Oh and Doc, you must have had me fired up.. look at all the typos in that rant I posted about you... But I feel better now. ;D

Lol .... I'm kind of sorry I brought it up at all. Geeze... I don't want to get old nyantler going psycho on me again by devoting a whole thread to it. I think I'll just let it die a natural death here and forget about it. Doc If you read a little.. you would know that the 1:1 ratio that is talked about is what mother nature would produce if man wasn't involved in changing population, reducing habitat and so forth... if you also read more about management plans.. most maintain that given the current circumstances with amount of habitat and hunting pressure 3:1 would be acceptable, still allowing for a good age structure in the buck population. Without restrictions on the harvesting of young bucks, reduction in doe population just reduces the entire herd population. I'm perfectly ok with guys questioning management plans.. or even being against QDM, but you spout stuff that has no basis in truth.. before you go telling people what is wrong with QDM.. get your facts straight about what it is that the plan is designed to do and the reasons why. Bubba is right about not taking everything that your hear or read about QDM as gospel, but at least read about who started the concept and why it was even concieved. I just find that the people that know the least about QDM are the first to knock it

good choice steve

Gotcha.. thanks

this one was cap..

I'm curious how he counted 13 pts on the other buck...?

Doc, you really need to read a little more.. I don't know where you come up with the crap you put out... but it really is nonsense..the reason urban areas have such large bucks is because nobody hunts there!!!! there is also NO correlation betrweem the number of doe and the size of bucks...the reason management plans want to bring the doe population down is so as the buck population grows from passing on young bucks, there ration will balance out. This is almost getting comical with you because you absolutely no NOTHING about whitetail deer. Open a book why don't you and learn something instead of spouting your BS.

I killed a nice 8-point last year on Dec 10th in the snow. while I was tracking him he made a rub, fresh shavings were on top of the snow... Latest I have seen a buck rub as well. Whats even funnier is that his right antler fell off when he hit the ground after I shot him. he had a bad wound on his left side. why he would rub a tree with one of his antlers loose is beyond me. Unless it was bugging him. Just when you think you know a lot about whitetails they go and add something new to the pile!

VERY VERY nice!

That my kinda buck... love the character

That is a slammer! 160-170 class.

My first three nice bucks mounted, and a collection of racks from the last 10 years

I love my Hawkin too.. I have tried to stay with traditional muzzleloading. I have an in-line, but its the original Thompson Scout that looks like a winchester rifle.

I wish guys would stop equating AR with just the topic of monster bucks all the time... AR is strictly designed to help balance out the age structure, the fact that it allows for bigger bucks is the natural bi-product. maybe the reason we have so many big bucks being taken is because many hunters are deciding on their own to use some restraint when it comes to killing small bucks. OMG I can't believe I got pulled in to an AR discussion again! I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!! ???

Have fun with it jimbo.. I remember how excited I was when I got my first rifle!

Yes it is, excellent joke

yeah the backtag isn't a hassle.. but i still would love to hear them explain the no tag in the north vs wearing one in the south.. makes no sense.

Milo hansons buck scores 213-5

well at least not 200 net.. but man after seeing this pic of it I'm second guessing myself... I still guess below 200 net though.. i'm gonna say more like high 180's