wolc123

Maybe it would be less pathetic if I did the math for you and came up with some evidence you could look up yourself: In "Successful Predator" by Mike Schoby, he states that the average hunter can hold a 2" group at 100 yards prone, and is lucky to hit the paper offhand. A standard 100 yard paper target measures 21" x 21". 21 divided by 2 is a shade over 10, not including the extra area for the square shape, which adds even more difference. Group diameter is an excepted standard for accuracy comparison. Here is at least some evidence that, when fired from a rest, the 10X accuracy improvement over a conventional bow fired offhand may be at least in the ballpark. What evidence can you come up with showing they are not that much different? Are you for or against full inclusion? Do you like deer killed cleanly or sloppily? Show me the math if you can.

One thing I have not seen anyone acknowledge is that crossbows can easily be fired from a rest. Who fires a bow from a rest? Anyone who has ever fired a rifle from a rest and offhand should understand how much more accurate that makes your shot. If you lack that experience, compare the average scores of a high-school rifle team in the offhand and prone positions to get a taste of how much tighter those "rested" groups are. What is cool about denying the use of a more accurate weapon? Do we want more wounded deer running around? I agree that it is equally as important to put the arrow in the proper location with a crossbow and a regular bow, and there is little difference between the two when they hit in the same spot. Hitting the "right" spot is just so much easier with a crossbow. The ability to work from a rest is of primary importance, but not needing to draw or hold at draw also add up. Throw on a telescopic sight and there is absolutely no comparison in accuracy. I think saying a crossbow is 10X more accurate on deer is conservative when you add all that up. Because deer are easily frightened by the quick motion required to draw a bow, the crossbow advantage might drop to 5X on fixed targets. I have yet to have any shot, in practice or at game, out of around 100 total shots taken, fall outside the conventionally accepted "pie-plate" diameter with my crossbow at ranges to 60 yards. I am no "Robin Hood" and it always took me months to attain that kind of accuracy at 30 yards with my compound. There was not a single "flyer" during those 100 crossbow shots. The only bolts I lost were one that missed a grouse head by about an inch, one my buck sheared with his leg after taking it thru the heart from 59 yards, and one that flew thru the center of my foam block target while I was unloading. Speaking of flying thru foam targets, what a difference a "rag-bag" makes. I filled an old nylon seed bag with old sweatshirts and towels and it stops them bolts every time in less than 8", and they are real easy to pull out. Don't waste your money on them foam targets.

I usually freeze the hearts for a month or two, which may help kill the worms, but boiling the hearts and tongues prior to pickling, should finish them off for sure. We never had any trouble with the pigs done that way, but I will be sure to have her boil the bear a little longer. Thanks for the warning.

Odds and Ends: I really like beef and pig tongue. My grandma always pickled them along with the hearts when we butchered. I always liked the tongue a little better than the hearts. It is softer and less "chewy", almost melts in your mouth. Beef tongues are huge compared to deer tongues. I always save all the deer hearts and my wife pickles them using grandma's recipe. It makes a great appetizer for the new year's eve party, and she usually makes me another batch for valentines day, served on a "heart" platter. Maybe I will save the tongues this year and have her throw them in with a batch. I wonder how bear tongue would be? Only one way to find out, maybe this weekend. My favorite part of any deer is the liver from a button buck or doe fawn. Livers from 1-1/2 year olds are still pretty good, but after that, they are not worth bringing out of the woods. My mother in law and I even tried some 4.5 year+ Adirondack mountain oysters last Thanksgiving weekend. If you do those, you might want to make a slice across, prior to frying or they may make a little mess in the frying pan when they "explode".

Not only is deer activity more in the cold, but handling the meat is easier after you score. This coming weekend should be the best ML opener up in the Northern zone in quite a few years. For a change, I will likely spend more time deer hunting than fishing and grouse hunting, like I have been doing up there on that weekend the last couple years due to "warmth" . The last thing I want to deal with when the temps are in the 60's or above is a deer carcass. No trouble with the fish and birds. The lows in the 20's should also take care of the ticks, which I hear have been horrendous this year so far. The last thing I needed for the trip was some hand-warmers and my wife just got back from the store with a bunch. If it rains, I will use my crossbow to "keep my powder dry". Bring on the cold.

When you do your own butchering it is pretty easy to trace the arrows path. It definitely passed BELOW the spine. I threw away all the meat that was slightly discolored, and that extended well down onto the ribcage. The rear & front quarters, and neck were good however, so it wasn't a total loss, and the rack was a bit above average for me.

I killed an 8-point with my shotgun about 10 years ago that had taken somebody's arrow under the spine, thru the chest cavity. The mechanical broadhead and about 2" of shaft were stuck under the hide on the exit side. I suppose it's possible that the blades did not deploy properly on contact and it could have skimmed the lungs without cutting enough to kill the deer. The meat around the wound looked infected and I trimmed a good deal away including the front half or so of the backstraps. The buck was healthy looking, and was with a smaller four point, hot on the trail of a doe I had just killed with my ML. Later, after having to trim off so much meat around that arrow wound, I wished I had shot the 4-pointer instead, which also would have been an easier shot. Meat means more to me than antlers, and I literally got "shafted" that time.

There is a product called "bloodglow" that is supposed to work pretty good. They say it is particularly effective at locating liver and gut-shot deer. Google it. It was developed for crime scene investigations and makes blood, that is not visible to the human eye, glow in the dark. You mix a tablet with water and apply to the trail with a spray bottle. Rain supposedly makes it work better. You follow the glowing trail in the dark without a light. I ordered some last fall "just in case" but have yet to try it since both my subsequent hits (with crossbow and rifle) have expired within 40 yards of the shot. I think it cost around $30 for enough to track 3 deer. Even if it's too late for that one, it would be a good thing to have around in case it happens again. I know how you feel, as I also lost my first doe more than 30 years ago (hit her in the shoulder blade). I also lost a couple other deer with the bow over the years including another shoulder blade on a nice buck, and a small buck that I hit too far back. That last one was one of two deer that I am sure did not make it because of me, the other from a bad hit with my ML. The shoulder blade hits with a bow usually recover just fine. A friend got that big buck I hit there a few weeks later with a shotgun and it was all healed up. I never got back in the stand on those years I lost a deer, figuring I only deserved one deer a year with a bow, whether I was able to recover it or not. With family and job responsibilities limiting my practice time, I hung up my bow for good after my last recovered kill, which just happened to strike the buck in the jugular vane when he ducked the shot. Maybe after my kids move out and I retire in a few years, I will have enough free time to get back into regular bow hunting. Until then, I will stick with the crossbow, with which I am currently 1/1 on deer. I ain't perfect with it though as my first shot at live game was a clean miss at a grouse's head. I bought a range finder, and have it fine tuned now, so that I can hit within an inch of the point of aim to slightly beyond my effective range of 50 yards. Here in the Southern zone, we still have to wait a while to legally hunt with it, but I am going to use it next week up in the Northern zone.

If I were limited to one gun, it would be a 16 ga shotgun with a modified choke (you guys are cheating with two barrels). With that, and the proper ammo,I could take any North American game inside of 50 yards.

If it were me, I would look up near the NW corner of the Adirondack Park, St. Lawrence County maybe. That will put you far enough north to get out of the reach of most of the lake effect snows and winter kill which has often had detrimental effect on deer populations a little further south in the Tug-hill area. The deer density might be a bit less than most southern zone areas but is still pretty good, even after the last two tough winters. It will also put you close to some of the best smallmouth bass fishing in the nation, in the St Lawrence river and the Indian river lakes. The deer up there are every bit as tasty as those we get in the corn-growing regions of Western NY. The scenery is also about the best I have seen in the Country, which adds a lot to the whole hunting experience. Hunting pressure is minimal compared to most southern zone areas. Some of the zones up there allow only antlerless harvest during archery and ML seasons, I would stick to the zones that allow antlerless and/or antlered then. Ideally your land would be in a zone open for bear also and there are more of those around as you get closer to the mountains. Most of the area is buck-only during gun season.

I always use hearing protection on the range, even with a .22 rimfire. My favorite wool hunting hat with the ear flaps down gives me at least a little hearing protection on most days while gun hunting with larger calibers. They also keep my ears warm, kind of like killing two birds with one stone. Unfortunately those flaps also block my hearing enough to make it tougher picking up a deer approaching in the cover, at close range. I rely heavily on my ears and have killed more deer that I heard first than I saw first. My x-bow, coupled with newly arrived range finder, was hitting so good on the range today that I may even take that up north for ML season this year. There are certainly no noise issues with that "silent killer". Cleanup is a lot easier than the ML also. The only problem is the 50 yard effective range vs a bit over 100 with the ML. I may take both, using the ML in the mornings, when it will be cold and the ears need to be covered anyhow, and the x-bow in the afternoons.

Last year, I verified that my broadheads hit the same spot as fieldpoints, using my old archery foam block target. The broadheads would penetrate thru the block, I would unthread them, then pull the shaft out the front. Unless I change broadhead brands or types, I will use only fieldpoints for practice. It was always a pain pulling them fieldpoints from that compressed foam target. Today, I just filled a nylon seed bag with old sweatshirts and towels and used that. It worked like a charm and did not cost me a dime. I was itching to play with my new range finder, which arrived in the mail yesterday. It worked very well. I am all dialed in now with the top dot right on at 20 yards, the middle at 40, and the bottom at 50. Shooting from a rest, all shots to 50 yards struck within 1" of center. I will have to try a little "offhand" work later. That free "rag-bag" sure makes practice go smoothly with fieldpoints anyhow. It will also be great for unloading the crossbow after hunts.

I picked up a muff at Bass Pro last week up in Canada. They had a camo one with a large zippered pocket for storage and a separate pocket in the middle for a chemical warmer. That's the one I got. For $10 less, they had a plain one that was camo on one side and blaze orange on the other. Previously, I used a heavy insulated mitten on my left hand and a light thinsulate glove on my right, always having a chemical warmer in my right jacket pocket. They are calling for 20's in the Northern zone next weekend so it looks like I will get to try the muff out.

The long range forecast looks great for the Adirondacks next weekend. It's looking like 28 - 30 degrees Saturday morning with snow. If that forecast holds true, the hunting up there for the opening of ML deer and bear season should be the best it has been in years. What a welcome relief, having just got back in the house after getting pestered by mosquitoes, on a short walk chasing squirrels here in WNY.

This morning probably would have been ok, but the afternoon not so much. I just got back from the woods chasing "limb rats" with the .410. Only saw one and was not able to get off a shot. The skeeters took most of the fun out of it. They made it tough to "stump sit" for very long. Those bow-hunters sitting in stands or blinds till dark waiting on deer are in for a rough time in these parts anyhow. It needs to be about 20 degrees cooler. Hopefully it gets there by next weekend when I start hunting horned deer with real guns.

That sounds cool, I can't wait to get out. We only have about 5 acres of mature hardwoods on our farm, but there are some oaks in there which usually provide a little action. Getting a limit is tough in the limited space. Tomorrow, if the weather cooperates, I will bring the .410 over to my folks place when we visit for dinner. They have a lot more mature hardwoods that are loaded with hickory. I have taken many a limit over there, but usually with the .22 after the leaves are down. The best afternoon I ever had on squirrels was opening day of gun-season for deer about 20 years ago. It was super warm and I killed my buck on our farm, skinned it and hung the quarters in our old garage fridge by 10:00 am. I headed over to the folks place after lunch and had my limit of squirrels with the .22 in under an hour. Squirrel stew in the crockpot for dinner the next day with pan-fried venison tenderloins as an appetizer was one of the best meals I remember. The only thing more fun than hunting squirrels and deer is eating them.

I am going out for squirrels with my .410 again this afternoon. I saw one briefly last week but couldn't get a shot before he disappeared in all the leaves. There are still too many leaves on the trees for good .22 rim-fire squirrel hunting. Hopefully this cold snap will bring down some leaves and bring out some more squirrels.

We went up last weekend to check out Bass Pro Shops in Niagara on the Lake. Awesome store with a very friendly, helpful staff. The adjacent shopping mall and food court was good also. Just about all the major stores were represented there. My wife and daughter were thrilled with the whole thing. I had not been to Canada since the "enhanced-license" deal went into effect. Fortunately, my work sprung for a pass-port this summer, so I was able to use that to get across the bridge and back. Next time we go up, we will be sure to check out the Falls from that side. That won't be until January at best however as all my weekend free time will be hunting until then. Happy Anniversary.

The wind is the key thing to be aware of. Deer can not smell you from upwind no matter how good their noses are. When I hunt a large area, I will always start at the farthest "downwind" area, and work my way upwind. The prevailing wind in most areas where I hunt is from the southwest. I simply adjust my plan for the occasional "nor-easters", and such. Getting high up in a tree is the easiest way to defeat a deer's nose coming from downwind. The older I get, the more I like hunting from the ground however, so that don't work so good for me anymore. I do use those scent free detergents, hang hunting clothes down in the basement, shower with scent free soap, use unscented deodorant and such. None of that can hurt, and does not take more time or cost that much more. I don't bother with the scent-free spray. When it is cold, I pack a thermos of warm cider. The odor that gives off is not offensive to deer (unlike coffee which even my nose can pick up from 50 yards away). I never smoked, but when I was younger, I chewed tobacco a bit. I even killed my first antlered buck as he had his nose in the "tobacco" stain I was making in the snow under my treestand. Hunting mainly just the weekends from the middle of archery until the end of ML, I usually average about 2 deer per season deploying these simple scent-control methods, and I can usually count on a mature (2-1/2 year +) buck every few years. Meat is my primary objective and I have no issue killing larger-bodied 1-1/2 year old bucks. That's what I end up tagging most years without regret. The scrawny little ones usually get a pass from me these days though. I will be a little less selective with my archery/ML tag this year since they "outlawed" killing bucks in our zone for late ML.

In fairness, I only put reference to my religion in about half of my posts. If someone could come up with any proof that God does not have the final say where all deer end up, I might back off a bit. All of the evidence I have personally collected suggests he does, and not just over deer. Fish also end up right where he wants them and you can actually read all about that right there in the Good Book. One time he even helped his buddies fill their boats with fish to the point of sinking, at a spot and time of day when fish were never known to be around. I have enjoyed great success hunting and fishing in NY throughout most of my 50 years here. A few times, I have even been able to feed the neighborhood. I give full credit for all of it to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Things sure have gotten crazy in this country lately with so many folks making "sport" of defacing Bibles. On vacation down in Gettysburg PA this summer, I opened up the one in the hotel room and someone had written obscenities all over pages. I had a tough time explaining that to my kids. All we can do is pray that those folks get their act together before it is too late. When posting things publicly, think it over a little bit prior to submittal. Don't be so quick to hand satan the wheel. He will lead you astray and cause you to loose every time (for it is written you know where). PS, once a day for me too. Never had any need for TP in the woods.

I like to carry a small Bible in my pack. One time it even got me one of the largest-racked bucks of my life. I was passing some quite time, on the late afternoon of opening day, high up in my tree-stand reading it (Unfortunately, I cant remember what chapter and verse). With about 5 minutes of legal shooting light left, it slipped from my hands and fell. I broke a cardinal safety rule then, as I carefully climbed down from the stand with my loaded shotgun in my right hand. Normally I always unload first, by the book, but there was still 5 minutes to go. When I got to the ground in a little patch of brush, in the middle of the big woods, I reached for the Bible. Just then a flock of turkeys landed right on my position. I looked at my watch and there was still 2 minutes left. Then I looked up and saw the big rack, head, and neck of the buck about 10 yards away. Quickly I moved the crosshairs to the base of his neck, pulled the trigger and put him down on the spot with about a minute to go. Were it not for me dropping that Bible when I did, his turkey pawns would have spotted me, in my blaze-orange camo, up in that tree from a mile away. Down in the brush below, his line of turkeys was breached and he got the surprise of his life, effectively ending it. Some may call that "just a coincidence" That's just because they don't know no better.

That would be great. I am heading up to the Adirondacks next weekend for the opening of ML season. The last couple years it has been too warm for much deer action then. Handling and keeping the carcasses fresh for the ride home would have been trouble, so I spent most of my time fishing. On the last real cold opener up there, several years ago, I was able to take a fine doe. I was also hoping to get after some bear (lots of sightings around camp lately). I have been debating on driving our small, front-wheel drive car or the big, 4x4, 3/4-ton pickup truck. The snowy forecast and falling gas prices are telling me to take the truck. That will be a lot better for hauling deer (and/or bear) home also.

Some of you guys who cut your deer up and freeze it ASAP out to give aging a try if the temperature is not too high. The older the deer, the more important that is. Even a 6-month deer is a bit better after 3 or 4 days at around 40 degrees. 2 weeks is perfect for a 4-1/2 year old (you math whizzes can interpolate the time for the ones in between). Any red meat should be aged to get the best quality on the table. Definitely get the guts out of the deer, and get it cooled ASAP. Keeping it out of the sun is critical, and leaving the hide on helps out for reasons already mentioned. If its too warm, use and old fridge. If your wives, girlfriends and kids have been turning up their noses at the venison you have been tolerating yourself, give it a try. You got nothing to loose. If they enjoy eating it they will be far more tolerant of the time you spend hunting. Maybe part of the confusion with hunters, is that most of them are also fisherman, and it is definitely best to get that meat processed as soon as possible after the kill.

My worst late ML was back in the day that NY made us use side-locks and open sights. A huge-bodied buck, that had already dropped one horn, walked right under my stand. Our freezer was empty, and my mouth was watering as I watched him sway side to side right below. "Snap" went the cap, but the load never fired. He looked up, picked up his pace a little, then disappeared behind the next hedgerow. We ate lots of chicken that winter.