WNYBuckHunter

Who was talking about unsupervised? I must have missed that

"ughh", again I ask, where was anyone talking about it relating to B&C or P&Y type rules. Doc was talking about his personal interpretation of what fair chase is to HIM. "ughh", I said AVERAGE HOME RANGE, not what some deer do, or what they might do during the rut when they sometimes wander. Try to keep up...

I think they mean on average through a certain span of time within a herd. Not every deer in the herd will end up with the genetics, plus start factoring in all of the lesser genetics that are already dominating the pool, and they are probably pretty close to being right, but who knows. It would be an interesting study to read.

It drives home the point you shouldnt let an 8 year old shoot an Uzi on full auto. Thats all. Nothing to do with letting a kid shoot a firearm, supervised, that they can handle. You are picking 1 extreme situation as an example.

Actually, if you stop cherry picking words out of comments, the stop sign and bb gun references are 100% valid in the discussion.

How is it different? If I let my daughter handle or shoot a gun of any kind, its just as much of a disregard for the law, is it not? Just look up NYS gun laws if you want the exact statute numbers, but NYF has a good plain english version here: http://nyfirearms.com/blog/nys-gun-laws/ "Generally, it is unlawful for anyone under the age of 16 to possess any firearm; however, a rifle or shotgun may be possessed by a person between 12 and 16 who is engaged in target shooting on a range supervised by a military officer, certified instructor, or a parent, guardian or a person over the age of eighteen designated in writing by such parent or guardian provided the adult has a hunter safety certificate."

Photoshopped image? Its a picture of the article. I dont know if Eddie knows how to use Photoshop

I wonder how many of the guys that find this disturbing have let their kids that are below the NYS minimum age, shoot a BB gun, a 22, or other firearm. Regardless of how well you supervised it, its illegal. Bottom line, to me, is this state sucks. My daughter is 100% ready to hunt under proper supervision. Ill probably end up taking her to another state to get her first deer, because of NYs arbitrary age limits. Would all 10 year olds be ready? No, but I think I have a far better idea of what she can and cant handle than some politician that has never spent any time around her, has no idea of her knowledge or skills set. Do I approve of what these people did? No, but only because it was against the law. The tag thing, yeah, I dont approve of that. JMO

26 foot barrels? Holy Smokes! GLWS

Maybe I missed it, but I dont remember anyone saying it was "fair chase" under the guidelines of B&C or P&Y. You do realize what the average home range of a free ranging whitetail is, right? In case you dont, read this... http://www.qdma.com/articles/33-fascinating-factoids-from-deer-research

Bronx and Wilderness area in the same sentence doesnt sound right.

Saying a 2000 acre pen isnt hunting is kind of silly. As long as the animals were not bottle fed, hand raised, i would consider them pretty close to wild. The farms i hunt total up to just shy of 1000 acres, and i have a hard time effectively covering it in a season, thats including doing drives. This season, Id say i personally hunted 3/4 of it from Oct 1 to the last day of Muzzleloader, and a good deal of that, i only hunted once or twice. I agree that there are good and bad preserves out there. My standards of good would probably be alot higher than FSW, but i do agree with him that there are different classes of operations, and some i would classify as hunts, just hunts with an astriks attached haha.

How many guys kill 2 bucks per year in NY?

Just curious, why do you think that would happen?

All of the fines should be raised. Every single one of them.They would need to be able to enforce the laws to up the number of tickets.

Larry, OBR has nothing to do with population control. It would be a good way to help get rid of some of that shoot the first buck you see mentality, without having to go to ARs. Add in more education about the benefits of letting bucks get older, and we should see the acceleration of people making the decision to pass the younger ones on their own. I will never dispute the science behind ARs, they do work to up the average age class of bucks, but i dont feel that it should be mandated, which ticks people off.

On a single subject? You sure can. I saw it too, it covered a bunch of topics. Pick one each year, and within a few years, you have the same subjects covered, with everyones opinion. You have agreed with the thought process behind mandatory reporting of tags, have you not? That would be feasable, and a survey would be as well. Pushback from retailers? Why? They already have to punch things into the computer, the survey questions would take an additional few seconds per license. Cornell could still run the crunching of the data and put the reports together. I know databases, the one they use currently is most likely SQL driven, not hard to add a table. Heck, you could even take the retailers out of the equation and run the survey online and over the phone at the time of reporting your first tag. Mandatory tag reporting makes it so everyone gets the survey, or the option to opt out. Either way, they were given the opportunity to express their concerns. You want hunters to be happy? Dont make it so they feel a disconnection from the changes that happen. Listen to what is said on here about the DEC, conspiracies, people that think the DEC doesnt care about anything but money, etc etc.

Its all computerized already, and could be entered right along with the license info. Im not talking a lengthy survey, just a short one with a different subject each year. The cost would most likely be similar to what a big lengthy survey once every few years costs them to do.

The biggest reason Id like to see everyone surveyed, is so that noone is sitting there crying foul because they have never ever received any survey about any issue from the DEC's random samplings. It would be pretty easy to setup.

They are putting it in the worst possible location, IMO. Ever drive through the 390/590 junction during rush hours? It sucks. This is just going to make matters worse. They really need to rethink that whole area's traffic flow. Elmwood Paula, Elmgrove is in Gates/Greece.

Thanks for the list Doc. Remember guys, this article was not written by the DEC, so wording is obligatory at this point. We will have to wait and see what the DEC actually puts out there. The way I look at it, this is the next round of the DEC's deer management program, as the current 5 year plan runs out in 2016. If you guys remember back a few years, they did this same thing, spitballed a bunch of ideas, sent surveys, got those back, had a public comment period with regional townhall style meetings, and then put their plan together. Some ideas were included, others were not. I really wish they would conduct these surveys to all hunters, through a short questionnaire each year when you buy your license. From that list, I would support 2,3,4. I dont see the point in carving up the state into more zone or units or whatever, there are already WMUs, Regions and zones, but thats not a huge deal. I highly doubt we will see ARs, and even though I might support it if done right, I dont see the shortening of the seasons happening either. Just my take on it.

Kip used to work for NH Fish and Game. He currently lives in PA and works for the QDMA.

Keep telling yourself that.

You dont need to show ownership of it. Just need to go through an FFL to transfer it.

Congrats to the winners! Adkbuck takes 1st, Lawdwaz came in 2nd and Josepmrtn took the youth division! Shoot me a PM with your addresses guys, we will get your prizes out to you!