reeltime

John 2003 was a spike year in harvest numbers, it was a good weather year and had an increase in archery tags because people wanted more woods time since the ar implementation. Just look at the next. 3/4 years the numbers went down and then after inclusion started back up before a low kill in 09 and 14. Yes there was ar and herd reduction starting in 2002 as I have stated before when they did hr many areas of the state were decimated in deer pop. And things changed statewide. For a few years a lot of the 1.5 bucks were protected from all but jr hunters . they also implemented the mentored youth program and a lot of kids "shot" bucks...when it first started there was no age restrictions and you would be shocked how many 3 and 4 year old kids shot bucks. Lol. The first few years we didn't see many people carrying a crossbow simply because of the cost but as many have said when it came time to replace their vertical bow they bought a crossbow. I spend a lot of time in pa and cover a lot of ground while there and I can say I see more people carrying a crossbow than compounds or recurves. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

Yes I have killed deer with a crossbow, I have family that live and hunt in Ohio. NOTHING I wrote is hearsay its years of experience with xbows and dealing with tracking bow and xbow shot deer, its sickening the distances people feel its ok to shoot and 100% honest is the fact that in the moment of truth the crossbow shooter will push the limits more. By your own admission did you not do that exact thing the first year you could use a crossbow? Glad your at 100% Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

I have said it before it makes no difference to me as it won't change how I hunt. I have been living with full inclusion in pa for a number of years. You keep saying it hasn't caused the sky to fall in pa. You know nothing of what you say in regards to pa. Nothing and I mean NOTHING has cause more dissention between gun hunters and archery hunters in pa than the marked increase in buck harvests since full inclusion along with the increased archery stamp purchases. I spend a lot of time down home and am a member of a few pa hunting sites and the impression you are trying to give wolc is incorrect. Its not all peachy and keen in pa. Again makes no difference to me because its not going to change how when or why I archery hunt. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

thank you everyone for the well wishes. update, she is doing great and so far has been following doctors orders to a T and some of it she is having fun with it........like hey doctor says no submersing my hand in warm water so you gotta do the dishes, doctor says I cant lift more than 5 lbs. so carry the laundry in to the washer ( she will NOT let me do laundry cause it needs sorted, I said i did sort it thats clean and thats all dirty in the washer....duh didn't know theres like 4 different laundry loads) The biggest one and by far the toughest is no more smoking... thats been the worst and will be for the long haul i think but its certainly for the better. of course now its the dr. visits and half a pharmacy of drugs till everything heals up. with all thats going on she still says we are going to camp so gavin go buck hunting next monday. .

That's awesome grampy. They are a true 4 legged ghost in the woods and certainly killing machines. I had one hop up on a log 10 feet From me one predawn morning in pa. Turkey hunting. It was so noisy walking I just set down a few yards in off the well road and he came through the woods and hopped up on the log and I never heard him walking in the leaves. He stayed there grooming himself for 15 minutes before he saw me and in the blink of an eye he was gone without a sound. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

when I was a youngster I watched one of the bigfoot documentary's. they said he was 7 feet tall. We lived in a raised ranch and my bedroom was above ground, so whats a young kid to do, I mean scared to death watching that show and couldn't stop after all gotta know what his MO is so I can be ready for him. So I snagged a tape measure and to my horror my window was a little over 6', i will say bedtime wasn't long and I never dug a hole so fast before or since then. I can remember that it was well over 7' from the bottom of the hole to my window,,,,,,and man did I ever get in trouble for that one. that was when I was young and didn't know better...since then all the bigfoot stuff just makes me shake my head.

there has always been some form of antler restrictions throughout NY state. All they did was up the restriction a couple points. had they done 3 points to a side when they first made the buck rules this all would be a moot point. His day was a success and who knows the next day he hunts maybe he will shoot the biggest deer he has ever shot in his life.

as others have said you have to knock on doors. a few tips when doing that, plan your visits at non intrusive times, ie, don't show up and interrupt breakfast, lunch, supper. Dress decently and be polite, first impressions go a LONG ways, ALWAYS say thank you even if the answer is a no. You will hear no a lot of times. IF you gain permission you need to ask some questions. -where can I park? -any places on the property you don't want me shooting? -any days of the week you don't want me shooting? -if they have livestock ask about discharging a gun by them and off limit areas and times (especially with regards to milk cows) -leave the property as you found it, clean up your empties, take your litter with you and don't be afraid to pick up extra you find. -Only hunt for what you were given permission to hunt, I am in the heart of apple country here and I can tell you that shooting a coyote or fox on an apple farm is a pretty quick revocation of permission if they find out. -When there hunting conduct yourself as a respectful hunter, you not only represent yourself you also represent the rest of the hunting fraternity. -don't be afraid to offer to help with farm work. and most importantly -DO NOT show up there with a bunch of guys without checking with the landowner, YOU were given permission not you and 5 buddies, with dogs and lots of shells to shoot. even IF the landowner says it is OK be VERY careful who you take, people do funny things and your "buddy" may go behind your back and seek permission from the landowner or just go there sometime without you. YOU are the one that worked for the permission, once granted cherish it and work to keep it because they are tough to come by.

i can not ever see them shutting down state land to allow the herd to increase, its a double edge sword. First and foremost you are taking away available land from those that helped to PAY for that land. second of all you shut down one piece of property all those folks are going to a different piece of property and just adding more pressure there. as far as all the private land goes and why some of it is off limits I would say here are a few reasons,,, and I am not saying folks on here are like this but from personal experience this is what I have seen. First of all we live in different times, it is not like it was 30 years ago and this is what I mean by that; a- people today are NOT very trusting towards strangers, and i guess for good reason. people are just not going to be very open to inviting a complete stranger onto their property knowing they are going to be carrying a gun or bow. lets face reality most of these people only know hunting from what they see on the morning or evening news and if that's all you ever see about hunting then all hunters are nothing more than unsafe slobs that either shoot houses or each other. So put yourself in their shoes, if a complete stranger walked up to your door and asked you if they could hunt right next to your home would you just say yeah go ahead no problem..... b- society has become a sue happy society and quite frankly people are afraid of getting sued whether there is any merit to those fears or not its a strong fear. The older landowners have seen it all, dealt with it all, and they are just sick of dealing with the problems. If you don't or never have owned enough property in a hunting area then no disrespect but you can not even fathom the problems we have had and continue to have even with posters on every tree. People have no respect for landowners or for other people in general, they walk right by the signs, when caught you wouldn't believe some of the stories you hear as an excuse. driving on fields, shooting too close to our farm animals, pushing down fences, leaving gates open, leaving trash behind, shooting towards and or hitting farm buildings or houses. Theft of the landowners stands, camera's, blinds. We as a hunting society over the years have paved a road that is only getting harder for the next generation to navigate. maybe not us as individuals on this board but our fellow hunting fraternity as a whole is viewed as a whole and we all know the saying a few bad apples spoils the whole bushel. As far as leasing or permissions go, yes they are out there, if you don't stop and ask you will never know if someone is hunting there, a lot of those properties ARE being hunted its just that people are more careful about where they park and how they enter and leave the property, visibility draws attention and sometimes too much attention.

Hey Pygmy wanna go perch fishing? Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

Well my quest to harvest picket this year came to an end 11/14/17 I had does and fawns milling through the beech trees feeding along with several small bucks. I see a doe break out into the field at a sprint about 70 yards from me with picket on her trail. She starts feeding and he is pestering her non stop. Her button buck fawn came out and picket chased him around the field and then would chase the doe around. The other doe in the woods all immediately retreated to my sanctuary to the west. Picket was still pestering the doe and chasing then BB around. It was time to make it happen if possible by employing a trick I have done to success 8or9 times in the past. When the doe and picket stopped running I hit the bleat can and the doe locked on me or rather my immediate area so I tipped the can again. She started marching to me as if on a string with picket right with her and still being bothered with the BB presence. The doe enters the woods and is only 10 yards from me as picket is pacing the edge of the field. The BB goes to the west and then enters the woods and starts back east trying to get back to its mother. Picket tries to enter the woods but had to step back turn his head sideways to get between 2 trees and as soon as he is in the woods he charges at the BB who tears off to the west and keeps running. Picket turns around and starts back towards me and he stops in the only open spot over 10 yards from that stand high up in a hemlock as he is broadside at 15 yards with a basket ball size hole 5 yards in front of me through the limbs of a hemlock between us. I was extremely calm and thought was ok this just got real. Anchor, sight picture, bend at the waste, this is just like hundreds of other times. Sight picture is great as he is standing with a 8 inch beech tree over his front shoulder forward enough that I can see the white haired elbow of his front leg. There is a 12 inch beech tree covering his guts from his rear stomach back. Ok Lee 2 years coming and you have nothing but vitals. Sight picture, follow through. Just an instinct reaction as I watch the arrow pierce his ribs high just behind the shoulder. He wheels sideways knocking over the filed edge brush and then walks 50 yards and stops. The doe is still standing under me as I hang the bow while watching him and trying to get the field glasses out and wondering why he is still standing. I ease to a seated position so I had a clearer look at him and in disbelief I see him slowly hunching up. I am sick to my stomach, he takes a couple steps and I can see part of his intestine hanging out the exit hole. I am in complete disbelief as to how I gut shot him. But I can see the exit but can't see the entrance hole but I KNOW I saw that arrow go right behind the shoulder.! He slowly walks east towards the woods as the big 8 comes out and starts chasing a different doe and picket doesn't even look at him. I am about to be sick and trying to keep an eye on picket as he disappears into the woods headed towards his bedding area. As I set there listening and watching I made a vow to myself that after 2 years and now what looks to be a poor shot by me that will be 100% fatal for the deer if for some reason I don't recover him he will be the last deer I ever shoot with a bow. The doe under me walked back out to the field so I called dad and told him what happened, he gave me a pep talk cause I was not being so nice to myself over what I had done. 45 minutes passed so I climbed down the climbing sticks and eased over to the arrow and just as I thought dark blood and stomach matter. I looked at the edge of the field and had good blood. I eased to the filed edge to the east and there was blood sprayed up the side of a cherry tree and the leaves were crimson. Walked right to him and man There was no ground shrinkage!! Of course I called dad first and then sent a pic to just and a couple hunting friends as I was trying to calm down. After last years screw up by me pushing the envelope and having him smell me thus blowing my chance at I'm the rest of last season I vowed to not make that mistake again and I was going to kill picket or eat tag soup. The range of emotions was unreal, from elation walking up to him to the pangs of sadness for taking his life after being such a stellar opponent that really made me step up all aspects of my game this season, and for that I will be eternally grateful. As it turned out somehow the arrow turned after entrance took entire top lobe off the right lung, turned and center punched liver out through the lower left stomach. 19 inches inside 18 inches tip to tip Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

Good job folks. 30 something mile trip to rgh Saw 6 vehicles parked along the road. Woulda thought more people would be out. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

good luck everyone, live from the house here, a few shots heard nothing close except they are lighting up the ducks this morning. just puttering around before going to pick up Judy. I did cape down my archery buck and decided to put a tape to him. be safe and good luck everyone.

I have shot many deer with my .243, never lost one with it. shot placement is absolutely key but as others have said generally speaking the bloodtrail can be weak or non existent. my grandson shot his deer with it this fall in pa during the mentored youth hunt andit never took a step. no matter what firearm you use shot placement is key to a fast ethical kill. .

First and most importantly she is resting as comfortable as possible. Confirmed that at some point in previous 48 hrs. She had a heart attack. When they did the angiogram they found 1 artery 90% blocked and put a stent in at that time. Another artery had 40% block band they decided drug therapy was best treatment for that issue. She is bull headed an wouldn't listen to me. More tests to be done to assess the damage, they believe it's limited to the front of the heart but are not certain how much or extensive the damage is. They are telling us Sunday at the earliest for release from the hospital. With years of experience in pre hospital care I must say that RGH did an absolute top notch job today. They had 2 cardiologists and 6 nurses waiting for her arrival and as Judy put it swarmed her as she entered the room. It was non stop care and non stop updates on what they were doing and what they were seeing along with what they were gonna do for care. I must take a moment to say thank you to everyone that gave good vibes, prayers, and all the well wishes both on the live thread and in personal notes. Very much appreciated. Thanks again everyone I really do appreciate it.. Good luck to one and all. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

John, wasn't thinking when I put this here Don't wanna and didn't think about cluttering up the live post you can move it if you'd like. Thanks gramps and moog Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

Well folks I guess I didn't know how true my statement of likely done hunting for the season was the other day. On here just trying to take my mind off stuff. Brought Judy to rgh by amb. This morning she is now going in for an angiogram. I knew when I saw the EKG that she had a heart attack. Now its up to the dr. To find out how much damage and if its stents or bypass as the next step. Good luck everyone the rest of the season.... May be reading more just to keep occupied. Shoot straight and most of all enjoy every moment as tomorrows are never a guarentee. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

Fletch, not sure if your response of so I think pa is a monster buck state now was directed at me but I never did not have I said that pa is a monster state. I did state that since the inception of AR in pa the numbers of mature bucks has increased. Is it statewide? No would it ever be statewide? No there is just too much area and habitat variation but there is no denying the fact that there are far more mature deer today than there were 20 years ago. I have never said the hunting in my was terrible, beck I have hunted from west Virginia to Maine and never had a problem killing a deer, I adapt to what the sigh is telling me. I have not nor would I ever compare my to the mid west. Not even close to being comparable, deer here are treated as rats deer out there are a money treasure and are protected as such. Keep the focus on the mid west as far as I am concerned, some of the nicest whitetail bucks walking in the USA are less than a 10 hour drive from anywhere in ny if the hunter wants to put in the time to kill one. To call ny the worst hunting state could not be farther than the truth as has been posted here. Don't know who they polled to come up with that but its completely false. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

while I'm sure high grading may happen to some extent especially on tracs of public land. I am not a biologist but have been living the AR program in Pa. since its inception. When the AR were instituted in Pa. back in early 2000's people bought into Gary Alts speech while holding up a nice size set of antlers saying give them age and this is the possibility. What people did not understand was his herd reduction (HR) plan also associated with the AR plan. We had a massive amount of deer in PA. were nice bucks shot every year? yes but only handfuls per county except for the shotgun/bow counties around the large metropolises of pittsburgh,philly,harrisburgh etc. There were a massive amount of antlerless tags given out and in 2 years because of the hunting mentality, number of hunters, and the number of doe tags and along with the AR the doe population was decimated in 2 years which prompted the PGC to drop the combined season the first 5 days of the season. There was a massive upheaval with hunters and the PGC would not back down from their plan on AR but they did cut back on antlerless tags. Gary Alt had to retire because of all the death threats from people. Basically people lost their minds. Finally people stepped in and since folks could not control their trigger finger something happened that made my beautiful state look more like NY. NOTHING caused posted sign sales to skyrocket more than the AR/HR program. by 2006/2007 posted signs were EVERYWHERE. I was also one of those putting up posted signs to try and stop the massacre of all the antlerless deer. What this did was caused people to do a little homework on deer management, myself included and we started gearing our property toward protecting the deer our property held and voluntarily passing on young but legal deer. We set aside sanctuary areas and clear cut those areas to promote brush growth and those areas are off limits. We planted food plots to add an area of special treats on top of all the ag fields in the area. ( I did our first food plot in 1994 and I have never shot a deer on one of my food plots) since 06/07 we have been seeing an increase in mature deer, Why? because we have done a ton of work to give them food, cover, security that allows them to get age on them. I have said before and will say it again, young deer at the age of 1.5,2.5 are pretty gullible and when rut crazed can be pretty stupid at times. from 2.5 to 3.5 the deer makes a big jump in survival skills but they can still let their guard down when the desire to breed overtakes their survival instinct. From 3.5 to 4.5 they make a massive jump in survival skills and when targeting those animals you had better be on your A game. Do people blunder into a big mature buck occasionally? yes always have always will but I can tell you that that same person isn't going to blunder into 4.5,5.5 yo bucks every year simply because bucks at that age do not make many mistakes as a rule. I put nothing in those "the best state to hunt" "best city to live" etc. because you don't know who they polled, what their agenda is, how many people they polled and the background of those polled. did they poll 100 people in each state? did they poll hunters that couldn't find a deer standing in an open field. not to be sarcastic but we all probably know someone that couldn't see a deer standing in the wide open 50 yards away. To me polls are like opinions and we all know the old saying about opinions, lol. When you really stop and think about it the hunting is not that bad in NY. a long bow season, a gun season almost as long as the bow season, generous antlerless tags for those that want to shoot doe, and 2 buck tags, turkey tags, bear tag, decent waterfowl hunting and fair small game hunting. Really think about it folks is the hunting really that bad in NY??? Im sure in areas it can be harder hunting but is that where the participation trophy issue is stemming from? As I have said before I call a spade a spade, hunting is a sport, you get out of it what you put into it, sometimes that means you have to put more into it,,,,,like exploring different areas, more scouting, more time on the maps. etc. While part of deer management should take into account hunter satisfaction the bottom line is that aspect needs to be a very small factor. Proper herd management is a combination of sex ratio, habitat carrying capacity(all aspects of it) and human interaction ( car/deer, crop damage, etc) and one of the biggest factors when talking about whitetail genetics is that while it takes good genetics from a buck more importantly is that the doe has a lot to do with it as well. Do just blanket AR statewide work, to some degree maybe but in general no. There is just too big of a difference in habitat across the vast expanse of a state the size of NY. It takes a working relationship between the DEC and hunters to make it work or more importantly work between hunters to make it work. You think AR and the work people are putting in is not working in PA? look at the age and size of the bucks being killed there. those ages and sizes were not being killed in the 80's,90's in any significant numbers. That did NOT happen overnight and wont happen overnight here either, it takes work, a LOT of work and restraint from shooting young deer and that is the biggest issue people have.

absolutely good luck wishes to all out hunting. holy cow I shoulda left the phone turned off this morning. lol.

good luck to all this morning it would seem that it should be a good movement morning with the weather. I don't want to clutter up the live from the woods thread with a bunch of reply's to all the kudo's y'all have given me and picket, so I will do a combined reply. lol I am not mr. B, don't believe I know him, I Wouldn't know Growalot if I tripped over her in a store, heck I don't even know if I ever saw a picture of her. LOL I don't know who bob is that she referred to in her note, Even with all that said thanks for the congrats Grow and good luck to you the rest of the season. Thanks everyone for the congrats on my harvest of picket, its much appreciated and it means alot to me even as a person that has always been one to not seek attention. I have been truly overwhelmed in the past 20 hours. Once I got him out to my truck and was able to get him into the truck by myself I took him home and washed him out good and then took him to show Judy who was at work, On my long trip to her work ( all of 1.5 miles) 2 vehicles pulled U turns and followed me. They could see the antlers above the bed rails of the truck. From that point on it was non stop yesterday and into last night when I finally had to shut off my phone. lol. Believe me I appreciate all of the congratulations and it truly does make me smile inside and out, I think more so because I have lived for hunting this particular buck going on 2 years and I left some bucks walk all season that normally I would of not even hesitated to shoot. I wanted to redeem myself for a scent control error last year that cost me a shot at him and it was going to be picket or tag soup this year. He certainly is special to me because I knew he was there, knew his habits, and had to let him walk 2 times this season at less than 6 yards because his body position was not right. He made me up my game for sure and for that it will remain as a vivid hunt memory. Again thanks all I really do appreciate all the kudo's. good luck to everyone, it only takes a few minutes to change your whole season.

thanks sod,,, that's my face camo, I guess I look like a big ole ugly grey squirrel when I am perched in a tree. lol.

No sir N.Y.. I shot a nice 8 in pa the first Saturday of Nov......day 2 of my 10 day rutcation. So the rest of my rutcation was trying to get dad on a buck. Thanks everyone for the kudos. I'm happy and sad and still in disbelief. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

Wow..... Been a long time since I have had the shakes after putting an arrow in a buck..... That is up until an hour ago when I called a doe in that didn't appreciate all of pickets advances. Been down that path before and once again tipping the can over when the doe stopped running brought her right to what she thought was a ready doe.. Picket followed and stopped in the only open shot from that stand that is over 10 yards. 15 yard shot, I don't even know when I shot a deer at 15 yards last was I know it was a long time ago. Said a quiet tribute to picket for the great chess game we have played over the past 2 seasons and sadly my my season is done, even likely for gun I am done. Scrappy selfie but gotta do what ya gotta do, ain't no setting way back on this pic. What a stud of a buck. Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk

certainly we hear about it more now than we did in the past because of social media. It was worse in the old days? doubtful, while yes the modern equipment is far superior to what was available 40 years ago BUT the hunter numbers and mentality has changed GREATLY in the last 40 years also. Here's my take ( I know your thinking oh boy lol) when I first started bow hunting 40 years ago there were no cam bows, broadheads were old school and what few people bow hunted generally kept their shots under 25 yards 30 at most. Roll into the mid 80's and the "overdraw" fad hit about the same time as the outdoor hunting shows. the overdraw craze of shooting shorter lighter arrows and then came mechanical head trying to steer those under spined arrows. If memory serves me I believe one of the first sort of mechanical heads to try and help steer those arrows was the razorback 4 and 5 where the blades would essentially stay stationary and the arrow and furrel would spin. now all of a sudden there was a massive advancement in bow and arrow technology and the outdoor channels came around along with reeltree, buckmasters, etc. and these guys are on tv shooting 30,40,50 yards at animals and folks thought that was a great idea. today it seems that 30-40 yards is the norm for trying to shoot deer, there are WAY more archers today than 40 years ago, there are far more tools available to them to find deer travel routes (cameras) far advances stands and camo, all equating to more deer encounters thus more shot opportunities and as with any type of shooting the more shots taken the greater the chance of wounding a deer and that only increases with the farther distance shots. As far as hunting goes I call a spade a spade, not calling individual people out but honestly a large number of archers are not as good of a shot as they make themselves out to be and shoot way beyond their effective range, not just vertical bows either, crossbows are in this as well. Some want to make the crossbow the almighty weapon but they are not and its just as easy to wound with a crossbow as a vertical. Whether folks want to believe it or not there are probably just as many hit and not recovered deer as recovered when 30+ yards shots are taken, and honestly a lot of the unrecovered deer the hunter never told anyone because they got caught up in the moment and tried to make a shot they knew they should not have tried. again calling a spade a spade, the comment of a miss is worse than wound and lost so your done, that ranks right up there with one of the dumbest comments I have ever read on this board! Misses happen for a number of reasons and is NEVER EVER NEVER worse than putting a projectile ( whether arrow or bullet) into an animal and not recovering it!! Do you know how many clean misses I have seen floating around facebook and social media and hunting forums NONE, Know how many clean misses gives hunters a bad image to the public? NONE, unless they listen to someone like you telling them your a lousy hunter and should be done for the year for missing a shot clean. Ya know how many images get passed around every year that absolutely DOES have a negative impact on us as hunters,, TOO MANY. Again bad shots happen, and they do and will happen, its up to the hunter to only take high percentage shots.