The Left and Chick-Fil-A

[Grouse]

No. But, I don't think that's the point. I think that the point of the protests is that the leader of a large hospitality-industry business openly stated that he feels that certain Americans should not have the same rights as the rest of us. The only means that the public has to answer back is to boycot his business. Really, I don't see the big deal on either side. That franchise will do just fine because, from what I understand, they're mostly based in parts of the country that will support homophobia and other forms of narrow-mindedness.

They have the same rights as every other American. They can marry any other person they choose, as long as they are of the opposite sex. That is equality by definition. What they are asking for is preferential treatment and an exception to the standard right. If they get it, they will have been granted a right that is not for the general populace, but for a protected class of people only. That is a very dangerous thing to start doing with regard to rights.

Elected officials do not have the power to infringe on Constitutional rights, even if all of their constituents want them to do it. We are a land governed by the rule of law, not the tyranny of men.

As far as the judgement allegation, I'm not judging the man, I'm judging the action being promoted. If you understand the Bible, you know that is what we are called to do. The pious do not allow immorality to prosper without objection.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Grouse

[Elmo]

It is the bible that bans homosexuality. The Constitution states a freedom of religion. By forcing others to comply with religious laws imposing the views of the bible on to others.

[Grouse]

It's all part of Obama's Socialist plan. Morality and traditional values must be rendered ineffective to win the fight. Here's a video about his attack on his biggest opponent, Catholicism.

[Early]

Everyone should be opposed to Catholicism....It is an evil cult, posing as a religion.

[Grouse]

It is the bible that bans homosexuality. The Constitution states a freedom of religion. By forcing others to comply with religious laws imposing the views of the bible on to others.

By forcing America to accept immorality against their religious beliefs without putting it to a vote by the general public is tyranny and in violation of the first amendment.

[Sogaard]

For the second time in this thread, I'm going to ask all the Bible scholars, what was Jesus' view on homosexuality? I mean, I'm assuming since it is such an important topic, he would have a lot to say about it.

[Grouse]

Everyone should be opposed to Catholicism....It is an evil cult, posing as a religion.

Satan has said the same thing on many occasions. I wonder why?

You didn't watch the video, did you. No one fights Obama's Socialist agenda harder than the Catholic Church. You should at least give them credit on that score.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Grouse

[Sogaard]

Immorality? By who's standards? Are we back to the Old Testament again?

[Grouse]

For the second time in this thread, I'm going to ask all the Bible scholars, what was Jesus' view on homosexuality? I mean, I'm assuming since it is such an important topic, he would have a lot to say about it.

He did address it. He said, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner."

Edited August 6, 2012 by Grouse

[Grouse]

Immorality? By who's standards? Are we back to the Old Testament again?

By US Legal standards, until otherwise changed by law and not by executive fiat or judicial activism.

[Sogaard]

Where did Jesus say homosexuality is a sin?

And where is homosexuality still illegal in the US?

Edited August 6, 2012 by Sogaard

[Sogaard]

Full disclosure here, I'm really, really hoping someone starts quoting from Leviticus to back their Bible thumping.

It would be like an early Christmas present.

[Grouse]

Where did Jesus say homosexuality is a sin?

And where is homosexuality still illegal in the US?

The Bible addressed it and Jesus confirmed it when questioned about it with the answer given prior.

As far as legality of the issue, I was referring to Same Sex Marriage, not homosexuality in general. But it does point out the issue of how people feel threatened by the expansion of liberal agendas. Many people protested the legalization of homosexuality predicting it would one day lead to Gay Marriage. They were accused of being paranoid and non-sensical at the time.

[Grouse]

BTW, I'm not a Bible thumper, but I have studied philosophy and sociology, with a great deal of reading in the religious area. It is quite heavily entwined in our country's history and has had tremendous influences on all of our laws.

[Sogaard]

He did address it. He said, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner."

Ah, you must be referring to this. I have a question that should be very simple for you then. Please cite the chapter and verse this comes from. Good luck.

(SPOILER ALERT!)

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That line isn't actually from the Bible.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Sogaard

[Grouse]

In the Bible, Mathew records Jesus' famous sermon on the Mount in chapters 5,6, and 7. The basis of "Hate the sin, Love the sinner" in Christianity is the following passage from Jesus' sermon,

"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Mathew 5:43-48)

Here the command is to love one's enemies. This means loving for people what we love for ourselves of goodness. This does not mean, however, that we love the acts of sin. Jesus still confronted his enemies, but did so with the intention to reform one's enemies.That's because we recognize the destruction of sin so we want others to leave sin just as we would want to. "Treat the people the way you want to be treated." This is the essence of love for the sake of God.

You're Welcome.

[Sogaard]

So, you can't cite that phrase, chapter and verse? Yeah, I pretty much figured that, because its a quote from Mahatma Ghandi.

I can grab and interpret things to say what I want them to mean all day long too. You stated 'He said, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner." ' in quotation marks. You were wrong. Jesus never said those words.

But I forgive you.

Edited August 6, 2012 by Sogaard

[greybeard]

Why do people use the Bible so much to decide on what's right, or wrong for the country ?

The Bible should not decide our laws.Times changed

Through the years I've heard many people quote the Bible and most of the time only the parts that they like.They also preach that they know how God is going to judge. How they know that I'll never figure out .

I'm not a religious person, but have read some of the Bible.. I read above about Sermon on the Mount. Correct me if I'm wrong , but wasn't it said in Sermon on the Mount something like if a man looks at a woman with lust he's committing adultery and it's better to pluck out his eye than to commit that sin( I think it was stronger then that). Well I know a lotta Bible quoters and supposedly religious people droolin' over some married women and none of 'em are wearing eye patches. So I guess that one didn't apply...

Or when asked about the 2 greatest commandments didn't Jesus say that one of them was love your neighbor..

I read some liberal hating on this site and not just the ideas,they hate the liberals (their neighbors) .

I guess they are not Bible people since one of the top 2 was love your neighbor.. So should we condemn the violators of those 2 teachings too, or just the one about the one's we chose,like same sex relationships. If a person believes in God's judgement, how will he be judged for those 2 sins..

I am neither liberal, or conservative. I chose an issue I listen to both sides and decide. I am in favor of same sex marriage.Gays were born Gay, so who am I to judge, especially since it is based on love between 2 consenting adults.

Unlike the womanizers, or neighbor hater's who chose their "sin", homosexuals were born with the desire for someone of the same sex, so how can that be sinful especially since it hurts no one. I know some say if we allow that then "they" can allow some other extensions of marriage. I think that's all nonsense . The issue is solely same sex marriage. I also ,know some will say that some people are born with desires that are dangerous, well that's not the case for same sex love between two adults.

I don't think that the elected officials should have made an issue against the CEO's first amendment rights because he did not say he wouldn't serve them. However, it went public and people were offended and hurt because it sounded to me like he said they're going to be condemned by God.

If you own a company that serves the public, you are entitled to your opinions and to say them out loud. However , when you do, you have to realize that if your statements are hurtful the subject's of your remarks will be highly offended. So he , as an intelligent man must have realized that .

I, as a hunter,am offended by organizations that preach that I am going to hell because I kill God's creature's . How many hunter's, or gun owner's would by food from an animal rights activist. If a CEO of a company was on tv and said we were murders would you boycott them and tell people here and everywhere else to do the same...

[nyantler]

Suppose this business owner were Muslim, and his faith would not allow him to serve Christians...Would you support him?

Not even close to the same thing... the owner never mentioned not serving gays.. or anyone for that matter... he just stated his opinion of what marraige is.

[nyantler]

Everyone should be opposed to Catholicism....It is an evil cult, posing as a religion.

I would say the same of homesexuality... it is an evil sickness posing as normal behavior.

[erussell]

Also not born that way! Evolution would not have allowed for same sex to continue. The first gay would have been the last gay. It is a choice plain and simple. I wish the Gays would just come out and say it. I like it thats why I do it, instead of hiding behind the closet of I was born that way!!

[Elmo]

I'm not gay so I can't say if they really are born that way or not but it isn't completely ruled out as well. I too thought the process of elimination through evolution was an argument but humans have manipulated the process of evolution like gods. For example, I own a Maltese. This is a dog that if not properly groomed by a human, will go blind from it's own hair and most probably die. It cannot survive on it's own. Yet this breed was genetically bred and thrive in human civilization.

People can be born with sexual deviancies. The only differences is that in the past, it was suppressed. Homosexuality was documented even during the Roman times. Alexander the Great was a notorious homosexual but he married at least two women and father a child. But if we are only to judge a persons sexual preference purely on its use for procreation then how do you explain masochism, sadism, or even oral sex? The desire for oral sex does nothing to enhance procreation and if anything, is unecessarily spreading disease yet no one complains or is banning oral sex.

Nature always produces deviations and homosexual tendencies has always been present. Monkeys do it and even dolphins do it. The traits has been suppressed but just because it was suppressed doesn't mean it can't be passed own in as a recessive gene.

Edited August 7, 2012 by Elmo

[Elmo]

Another fact worth noting is that we're all initially born as a woman. The Y chromosome doesn't appear until later in the fetus development. This is why men have nipples. The fetus was going about its development of a woman and it isn't until the Y chromosome enters the picture and forces it to change the blue print.

(This paragraph is all hypothetical) What if the Y chromosome being introduced a week late can cause the male to be born with female tendencies? What if external factors determine the speed of the development of the Y chromosome? It is a known fact the the temperature of a crocodile/alligators egg during incubation determines the sex of the baby. if such a theory is true, then I ask you this...if a mother had health issues during pregnancy gives birth to a deformed baby, do we punish this baby or do we do our best to give this baby a normal life?

Edited August 7, 2012 by Elmo

[erussell]

If its passed on then is it really gay? Or are all people just Bi, and homosexuals just prefer the company of same sex because of emotional tragedies caused by members of the opposite sex? I know a lot of lesbians who were married and it ended badly and what do you know now they are lesbians in terrible relationships.

[erussell]

if such a theory is true, then I ask you this...if a mother had health issues during pregnancy gives birth to a deformed baby, do we punish this baby or do we do our best to give this baby a normal life?

This is already tested for and the option for abortion is given. The result depends on your world view. Naturalist would kill and throw on the trash heap. I know several christian women who knew there children would be born mentaly handycapped and they still had them. One teen I know is quite the archer and use to compete. So it depends on how selfish a person you are, if you want to do what you want to do and no one is getting in your way then you would probably kill your kid.