send letters for crossbows in NY

[Bendog]

ain't good....or maybe it is, depending on which side you fall

[WNYBuckHunter]

What "aint good"?

[Bendog]

It appears crossbows will not be legal implements even during the regular firearms season this fall in Cortland County......still tracking some of this down, but it appears the Cortland County rifle bill recently signed by the governor included an amendment which essentially prohibits the use of crossbows.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Im not sure if its a typo on the website or not. I shot an email to the Region 7 DEC office for clarification.

[biggamefish]

I have been listening about  the pros and cons of the use of crossbows in the archery season for some time now. All I have to say for my 55 years of hunting is "For those who object get you heads out of the sand" Welcome this weapon into the fold.  If this weapon is not for you so be it but don't make decisions that effert others who would like to hunt with it.  Just my opinion.

  Kind of the same thing with ar's, why should we be having people choosing what we can or can't shoot.  But they are and it is getting worse. 

[nyantler]

I have been listening about  the pros and cons of the use of crossbows in the archery season for some time now. All I have to say for my 55 years of hunting is "For those who object get you heads out of the sand" Welcome this weapon into the fold.  If this weapon is not for you so be it but don't make decisions that effert others who would like to hunt with it.  Just my opinion.

  Kind of the same thing with ar's, why should we be having people choosing what we can or can't shoot.  But they are and it is getting worse.

You already have rules about what you can and can't shoot based on what the DEC thinks is necessary... they tell you when, where, how and how many...when people are allowed to do whatever they want without rules you get chaos... hunter selfishness is no reason to not adopt something that may be good for the deer population... certainly you get to voice your opinion... but just because we want something or don't... doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[Doc]

You already have rules about what you can and can't shoot based on what the DEC thinks is necessary... they tell you when, where, how and how many...when people are allowed to do whatever they want without rules you get chaos... hunter selfishness is no reason to not adopt something that may be good for the deer population... certainly you get to voice your opinion... but just because we want something or don't... doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Lol ...... there goes that favorite forum phrase again. Whenever somebody thinks their arguments don't have enough strength on their own, they trot out that tired old "selfishness" thing again. Save it! .......it doesn't work anymore and is beginning to sound a bit silly.

[nyantler]

You already have rules about what you can and can't shoot based on what the DEC thinks is necessary... they tell you when, where, how and how many...when people are allowed to do whatever they want without rules you get chaos... hunter selfishness is no reason to not adopt something that may be good for the deer population... certainly you get to voice your opinion... but just because we want something or don't... doesn't make it the right thing to do.

Lol ...... there goes that favorite forum phrase again. Whenever somebody thinks their arguments don't have enough strength on their own, they trot out that tired old "selfishness" thing again. Save it! .......it doesn't work anymore and is beginning to sound a bit silly.

You can call it what you like... but selfishness is what it is when one wants to do something simply because it serves himself without regard for anything other than his interest... and most hunters are just that... selfish when it comes to conservation and wildlife ... they talk a good game until things don't fit into their program...

I'm not saying that all the hunting regs are good or bad.. but if the DEC is to be the ones to make wildlife conservation and management decisions... those decisions can't be adopted or not adopted.. because Joe Blow wants to be able to shoot anything he likes without regard for its affect on wildlife.

[Doc]

I know we all have different ideas on just what regs are required and what their benefits or lack thereof really are, but it bothers me a bit that as soon as anyone comes up with an opinion that is different from our own, we feel it is necessary to trot out the personal attacks. A lot of times these attacks simply boil down to: "I don't like people disagreeing with me, so here's a little insult for you". It's gets transparent after a while. And you have to admit that the old "selfish" card certainly gets over-used on this forum. In fact it's worn out .....

[WNYBuckHunter]

Saying that someone is being selfish or is expressing a selfish attitude, does not equate to a personal attack. Now if you call someone a selfish a-hole, then it would be a personal attack. Funny how so many people can sit there and dish out criticism, but as soon as someone criticizes something in a way that they may not like, they cry foul and say its a personal attack. What is this? Romper Room?

BTW, lets not carry the AR discussion into this thread too lol

[BizCT]

I'm 27 years old. I bought an Exaclibur Crossbow (No Cams). I am going to PA to hunt whitetail with it during the Archery Season. Then I will come back and hunt Putnam County with a shotgun during the regular season. Then use the Crossbow for the late ML season in Putnam County.  Maybe and hopefully 3 bucks this year between NY and PA!

[Doc]

Saying that someone is being selfish or is expressing a selfish attitude, does not equate to a personal attack.

Actually it does

[WNYBuckHunter]

Saying that someone is being selfish or is expressing a selfish attitude, does not equate to a personal attack.

Actually it does

I think you need to rethink what an attack is and consists of. Of course, some people take anything that contradicts their values to be an attack. Thats usually called being overly sensitive and not being able to handle any type of criticism.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Back on subject...

I got a reply from the Region 7 DEC wildlife office. They have verified that the recently passed rifle bill has inadvertently made crossbows illegal to use in Cortland county. Their legal department is looking into what can be done to fix it.

[nyantler]

I know we all have different ideas on just what regs are required and what their benefits or lack thereof really are, but it bothers me a bit that as soon as anyone comes up with an opinion that is different from our own, we feel it is necessary to trot out the personal attacks. A lot of times these attacks simply boil down to: "I don't like people disagreeing with me, so here's a little insult for you". It's gets transparent after a while. And you have to admit that the old "selfish" card certainly gets over-used on this forum. In fact it's worn out .....

For the record I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.. I was talking in general... and it wasn't meant to be an insult to anyone... it's an observation I have made over the years about most hunter... It wouldn't matter what new hunting regulation came down the pike... or what the situation was with animal populations, or anything that has to do with conservation... hunters simply want what's best for themselves without regard for whether it is or isn't good for conservation... you can call it what you like.. I call it selfishness... the truth is .. if the DEC said that we needed to stop all DMP's tomorrow for the sake of some management concern... guys would have a fit because they wouldn't be allowed to kill their 4 doe this year... they couldn't care less what affect regulations have or don't have on management and wildlife... to me I have seen enough of it that it's a fact.. you might consider it an opinion... either way it's still selfishness... and not a good way to determine what hunting regulations are needed or not.

[Bendog]

Yes, the subject......hard to believe it was inadvertent....it was an amendment offered up by a lawmaker and attached to the bill.......what possibly could they have been trying to say?....no crossbows in archery season (no kidding; it's right in the current DEC regs)?....this is what happens when lawmakers dabble in the regulatory process....DEC essentially loses some of its reg-setting authority....some may think that's fine, but I doubt the Cortland County hunter planning on using a crossbow this fall – and buying one after the Legislature approved just that –  thinks so....

[Doc]

Saying that someone is being selfish or is expressing a selfish attitude, does not equate to a personal attack.

Actually it does

I think you need to rethink what an attack is and consists of. Of course, some people take anything that contradicts their values to be an attack. Thats usually called being overly sensitive and not being able to handle any type of criticism.

OK, call people whatever you want. I really don't have enough patience tonight to play your usual never ending word-games.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Saying that someone is being selfish or is expressing a selfish attitude, does not equate to a personal attack.

Actually it does

I think you need to rethink what an attack is and consists of. Of course, some people take anything that contradicts their values to be an attack. Thats usually called being overly sensitive and not being able to handle any type of criticism.

OK, call people whatever you want. I really don't have enough patience tonight to play your usual never ending word-games.

No games here Doc, just pointing out the facts.

[Doc]

I know we all have different ideas on just what regs are required and what their benefits or lack thereof really are, but it bothers me a bit that as soon as anyone comes up with an opinion that is different from our own, we feel it is necessary to trot out the personal attacks. A lot of times these attacks simply boil down to: "I don't like people disagreeing with me, so here's a little insult for you". It's gets transparent after a while. And you have to admit that the old "selfish" card certainly gets over-used on this forum. In fact it's worn out .....

For the record I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.. I was talking in general... and it wasn't meant to be an insult to anyone... it's an observation I have made over the years about most hunter... It wouldn't matter what new hunting regulation came down the pike... or what the situation was with animal populations, or anything that has to do with conservation... hunters simply want what's best for themselves without regard for whether it is or isn't good for conservation... you can call it what you like.. I call it selfishness... the truth is .. if the DEC said that we needed to stop all DMP's tomorrow for the sake of some management concern... guys would have a fit because they wouldn't be allowed to kill their 4 doe this year... they couldn't care less what affect regulations have or don't have on management and wildlife... to me I have seen enough of it that it's a fact.. you might consider it an opinion... either way it's still selfishness... and not a good way to determine what hunting regulations are needed or not.

I know what you are trying to say, but when is the last time you ever saw two hunters in a room that could agree on anything. It doesn't always mean they are selfish simply because they have a different point of view on a subject. And of course we always assume that we have the right point of view....right? It's not always self-serving to see things from a different perspective.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yes, the subject......hard to believe it was inadvertent....it was an amendment offered up by a lawmaker and attached to the bill.......what possibly could they have been trying to say?....no crossbows in archery season (no kidding; it's right in the current DEC regs)?....this is what happens when lawmakers dabble in the regulatory process....DEC essentially loses some of its reg-setting authority....some may think that's fine, but I doubt the Cortland County hunter planning on using a crossbow this fall – and buying one after the Legislature approved just that –  thinks so....

The DEC should have caught it, as it went to their desk for approval part of the way through the process. Might have been an honest mistake, but who knows.

[Doc]

No games here Doc, just pointing out the facts.

Thank heavens we've got a self-appointed keeper of the facts here :

[Bendog]

No.....I don't believe that to be the case....this was a legislative process, and a late amendment to a bill.....very different than a regulatory process in which DEC is involved......just as DEC didn't "write" any of the rifle bill legislation or the crossbow bill.......a lot of folks have the mistaken belief, for example, that DEC watered down the crossbow regs so that they are only allowed during firearms season...that wasn't the case at all...it was a legislative proposal.....

[WNYBuckHunter]

No games here Doc, just pointing out the facts.

Thank heavens we've got a self-appointed keeper of the facts here :

Wow, who said that besides you? You getting a case of cant disprove the message so you shoot the messenger?

[WNYBuckHunter]

No.....I don't believe that to be the case....this was a legislative process, and a late amendment to a bill.....very different than a regulatory process in which DEC is involved......just as DEC didn't "write" any of the rifle bill legislation or the crossbow bill.......a lot of folks have the mistaken belief, for example, that DEC watered down the crossbow regs so that they are only allowed during firearms season...that wasn't the case at all...it was a legislative proposal.....

Actually, if you go to the NYS Assembly page and look up the bill, you can see the progression of it, and it was referred to DEC for approval 3 separate times.

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=S01683&term=2011&Summary=Y&Actions=Y&Text=Y&Votes=Y

[Bendog]

those referrals are to the respective environmental conservation committees of the Senate and Assembly, not to the department....