send letters for crossbows in NY

[sits in trees]

    According to Assemblyman Sweeney's office they have 150 to 50+- letters in opposition to the crossbow.

According to a very connected DEC employee he stated ; sportsmen are talking between themsevles but they are not sending in letters of support.

I have to agree with the later statement as I've seen more chatter on the internet forums than support letters.

So, tell all your friends to fill up these 2 guys email ,fax and phone before Monday to let them know there are more than a handfull fo people who actually pay attention.

Tell them this. Make the Xbow legal,no restrictions,let the DEC decide where to use it at. PERIOD

Senator Antoine Thompson,

Chairman of Environmental Conservation Committee

902 LOB, Albany, NY 12247

Phone:518.455.3371

Buffalo Office: 716.854.8705

e-mail: [email protected]

Assemblyman Robert K. Sweeney,

Chairman of Environmental Conservation Committee.

622 LOB

Albany, NY 12248

Phone: 518.455.5787

District Office: 631.957.2087

e-mail: [email protected].

[Doc]

I'll be sure to do that ....... lol.

Doc

[sits in trees]

i knew i could rely on you Doc ;D

[Doc]

Well, of course my letters may not say exactly what you would want them to. But thanks for the reminder anyway ...... lol.

Doc

[sits in trees]

ohhh i know what they are going to say...but i'm hoping to get alot of other sportsman on the site who might feel a little differently about the chance to hunt with a crossbow in NY state. read the next to last paragraph in this news article link, it tells of the recent crossbow meeting up in Albany and how the NY bowhunters stood outside with "anti hunters" in protest of any crossbow use in our state, kinda a sad place to be huh, in a lobby with anti hunters holding signs against other hunters???

http://www.registerstar.com/articles/2010/06/03/columnists/outdoors/doc4c0734afc110d893809425.txt

oh by the way for anyone else out there, please read the whole article....thanks

[SteveB]

Letters going tomorrow.

Thanks

[Doc]

Actually there's not a whole lot of difference between that and some of the bowhunters here who side with the antihunters in trying to discourage bowhunter organizations.

But anyway, just keep in mind that your post kind of reminds the crossbow opposition to start writing too. I just thought I would remind you of that fact. Just to make you feel a bit better about it all, I really didn't need your reminder. My letters have been out there for a while.

But anyway, I'm sure that your fellow members in the NYS Crossbow Assn are all writing their letters too aren't they? What's that ....... you aren't a member? ...... lol. What do you mean you can't find any members of that organization.

Doc

[SteveB]

From the article: "the biggest outcry coming from the New York Bowhunters, a relatively small organization that — as Columbia County Sportsmen’s Federation Vice President Jim Bertram pointed out when the meeting came to a conclusion — has less members on its roster for the entire state than the Columbia County Sportsmen Federation has in the county."

And I don't believe Columbia County is even that big.

[Doc]

And you worry about the NYB bending the truth a bit ..... lol. Oh that's right it must be true ... it's in the paper ....right? Tell me, what is the membership of the NYS Crossbow Assn.? Lots of luck finding that number. Good luck even finding their web-site. Yes, honest, there really is one ........ Haven't you joined yet?

So when people say this whole thing is a x-bow manufacturer's campaign here in NY, I think they are probably right. It's certainly not a grass-roots activity from hunters.

Doc

[SteveB]

It's certainly not a grass-roots activity from hunters.

You don't think it's possible for one counties sportsman's club to total 2000 members - a generous estimate of NYB's total STATEWIDE membership? County Federations include all sportsman organizations.

Thru archery leagues, 3d shoots, and local sportsman's club's, I interact regularly with 100 plus hunters who bowhunt.

Overwhelming attitude is they are not interested in using a crossbow, but would have no problem with them being allowed with all other archery equipment in the bow season - at least 80% plus. Since their not interested for themselves, they are not forming a crossbow org and probably would not join one until it effects them close to home. Not that different then NYB struggle to even get 1% of the licensed bowhunters in the state - and again that number is generous.

Fact is the crossbow where legal has not ruined or had any effect on those choosing to hunt with real bows - or even those shooting compounds. ;D

[sits in trees]

Actually there's not a whole lot of difference between that and some of the bowhunters here who side with the antihunters in trying to discourage bowhunter organizations.

But anyway, just keep in mind that your post kind of reminds the crossbow opposition to start writing too. I just thought I would remind you of that fact. Just to make you feel a bit better about it all, I really didn't need your reminder. My letters have been out there for a while.

But anyway, I'm sure that your fellow members in the NYS Crossbow Assn are all writing their letters too aren't they? What's that ....... you aren't a member? ...... lol. What do you mean you can't find any members of that organization.

Doc

hey Doc, good things come in time and yes the general hunting public in NY state is our muscle right now and does have a huge voice, the amount of letters, calls and e-mails in support of crossbows to our lawmakers has been tremendous this year and is growing, and its showing what hunters here in NY really want. you know that a NY crossbow federation is coming soon enough, just look around you, NJ, PA, OHIO, to mention a few. having a club doesnt always get you what you want, our lawmakers are very capable of doing simple math.

[Doc]

Ok guys. Send your letters, bad-mouth the NYB, and do whatever it is that you are trying to do to the sport of bowhunting. It really doesn't matter. Neither one of you has the convictions to put your money where your mouth is. You are both outside the only organizations that could make a difference with no real dedication to your cause, so your credibility and dedication are suffering badly and your impact one way or the other is severely compromised. That's actually a good thing. It's been a fun discussion, but from my perspective, it is obviously a total waste of time.

Doc

[WNYBuckHunter]

Yep, remember guys, being an active participant in your government is a waste of time. 

Oh, and its nice to know that Im being comared to an anti because I dont agree with NYB's stance on much and because I dont promote joining them so that their elitist voice becomes stronger. 

My emails have been sent.

[sits in trees]

Ok guys. Send your letters, bad-mouth the NYB, and do whatever it is that you are trying to do to the sport of bowhunting. It really doesn't matter. Neither one of you has the convictions to put your money where your mouth is. You are both outside the only organizations that could make a difference with no real dedication to your cause, so your credibility and dedication are suffering badly and your impact one way or the other is severely compromised. That's actually a good thing. It's been a fun discussion, but from my perspective, it is obviously a total waste of time.

Doc

i'm an NRA member and they fully support getting crossbows into NY, so your statement is wrong Doc.

[Dom]

We should be able to they sell them hear so yyyyy not

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I remember a time when the same pure blood elitists thought long bows and recurves were the only "honorable" way to bow hunt and really spoke out about compounds being an unfair advantage. I do not really have an opinion either way on the crossbow topic but it seems from the ads I see they both have about the same stats in speed and energy. My Dad had to give up Bow hunting because he can’t pull it back any more. I guess I would like to be able to bow hunt with him again.

[Doc]

I remember a time when the same pure blood elitists thought long bows and recurves were the only "honorable" way to bow hunt and really spoke out about compounds being an unfair advantage. I do not really have an opinion either way on the crossbow topic but it seems from the ads I see they both have about the same stats in speed and energy. My Dad had to give up Bow hunting because he can’t pull it back any more. I guess I would like to be able to bow hunt with him again.

I was around during those compound bow discussions and in fact didn't really understand what all the big argument was all about. After all, just about all of the same archery mental and physical actions and processes and strict adherence to form and physical consistency and other archery disciplines still applied and yet these people were adamant that the precedent would be set for the further corruption of bowseasons by other forms of weapons that had little to do with archery. I couldn't imagine how that could happen.

So now I find that I was wrong and they were right. The compound did lead us to where we are right now. They were absolutely right. The compound bow was the foot-in-the-door that set the stage for an anything goes attitude and opened up opportunities for anything to be included in bow seasons. So while we were busy calling those guys names like "pure blood elitists", it turns out that they were the ones who had the vision that the rest of us lacked. And now history is proving them absolutely right. Here comes the crossbow, and supposedly given legitimacy by the precedent set by the compound ....... just as predicted by those "pure blood elitists".

Doc

[BIGHUNTER2700537]

I dont think you should even be able to call an crossbow an bow. They should not send letters

[sits in trees]

yea i just call them crossbows, just another tool to harvest deer, just like my compound or rifle ;D

[Culvercreek hunt club]

No disrespect intended, Doc. I have a huge respect for the people that can master the "primitive" tools. I use to shoot longbow. I moved into compound and loved it. To be honest anyone that says shooting a compound is just like a long bow is very wrong. Truely primitive...no sights and no releases is a lesson in mandatory practice. I just didn't have the time anymore. Family...work....work...more work..lol. I would have no problem with them setting aside a primitve season....even for muzzleloaders (because the inlines with scopes have the same relation the compound had to the long bow.

I beleive the cross bow should be a legal implement. Maybe allow it during the open gun season or in archery only areas during the normal  gun season. Or allow it during the late archery season when the woods are shared by muzzleloaders anyway.

I can understand the argument about not letting it in with normal bows but I sure would like to enjoy those autum hunts with my fater again.

[Doc]

No disrespect intended, Doc. I have a huge respect for the people that can master the "primitive" tools. I use to shoot longbow. I moved into compound and loved it. To be honest anyone that says shooting a compound is just like a long bow is very wrong. Truely primitive...no sights and no releases is a lesson in mandatory practice. I just didn't have the time anymore. Family...work....work...more work..lol. I would have no problem with them setting aside a primitve season....even for muzzleloaders (because the inlines with scopes have the same relation the compound had to the long bow.

I beleive the cross bow should be a legal implement. Maybe allow it during the open gun season or in archery only areas during the normal  gun season. Or allow it during the late archery season when the woods are shared by muzzleloaders anyway.

I can understand the argument about not letting it in with normal bows but I sure would like to enjoy those autum hunts with my fater again.

Actually, I spent quite a few years shooting recurves before I picked up the compound, so I am very familiar with what it takes to shoot both. First of all, there is nothing about recurves and longbows that require that sights and releases not be used. When I shot recurves, I tried instinctive shooting and in fact got my first deer that way. But it didn't take too long before there was a sight on my recurve. As far as the release is concerned, the turks used the ring released centuries ago and there were some in my recurve days that were using releases.

So what really are the differences in shooting recurves and longbows versus the compound? Well, as a matter of fact there is still the entire max draw weight that has to be encountered at some point through the draw cycle even with a compound. Also, apart from the hold-weight differences, the act of properly shooting both a recurve and a compound are exactly the same. All elements and disciplines of form are identical including the stance, draw, consistancy of anchor, consistancy of hand position, consistancy of bow arm bracing and muscle alignment, consistancy of sighting, back tension, release, follow through. Further, failure to abide by these disciplines results in the same penalties in terms of target results. So, all of these elements are required to shoot a compound, a recurve and a longbow and that applies whether you are talking sight shooting or instinctive. Now, tell me which of these archery related shooting disciplines apply to a crossbow?

Part 2:  If you want to enjoy those hunts with your father again, I would suggest that with the lengthy regular gun season that we have in NY along with the muzzleloader season, there is nothing prohibiting that from happening. If he can cock, load and lift a crossbow, chances are pretty good that he can do the same a rifle or shotgun (perhaps even easier), and can therefore continue to hunt. That is exactly what I will be doing in a few years (maybe even sooner than that) when I get to the point where I can't shoot my bow anymore. That is if I still have the ability to pick it up, aim it and shoot, which may or may not be the case. If I can't do that then a crossbow is hardly going to solve the problem. I hear people talk about the crossbow like it is the absolute cure for all the ails and frailties of the aging process or the physically infirm when in reality, it is severely lacking in that regard. That point is getting clearer and clearer as I begin to approach that inevitable point in my own life.

Doc

[sits in trees]

most older archers move to the crossbow in states where crossbows are allowed in archery season. there are several reasons aging archers shoot crossbows, starting with being able to use a low magnification optic of some sort, my older hunting buds can long longer effectively see their sight pins and for most putting a blurry green blob on a deers shoulder isn't an option, another is plain old arthritis and not being able to draw a bow on a 20 degree morning let alone spending countless hours drawing and shooting to prepare for hunting. when your young your muscles build to a task when your older you can train yourself right out of the game....

[Doc]

most older archers move to the crossbow in states where crossbows are allowed in archery season.

Are we just supposed to take your word for that? How do you know that most older archers don't simply take up a gun when they can no longer use a bow. For me a gun would be the easier thing to handle if the my body were breaking down from arthritis, and other physical maladies.

Doc

[SteveB]

It would be a great thing to let the hunter decide which option to use as they need to make choices.

And the weather in bow season can be far more enjoyable to someone experiancing these conditions. An aging hunter has earned the right to choose.

[Chevy]

I don't feel an aging gun hunter who never participated in the regular archery season when he was healthy should be able to use the "I'm disabled and should be allowed to use a crossbow" card.    And that is alot of what I'm seeing. I feel for the guy who was a long time archer and can no longer draw because of a shoulder problem.  However a gun hunter using it as an excuse to justify crossbows in archery season is shameless.   

I have nothing against gun hunters and actualy enjoy gun season when it rolls around. But the seasons should be kept separate.  Don't dilute the season with crossguns.