Governor requesting Compromise on Crossbow Bill

[fasteddie]

I expect to be out during the Youth Hunt . There shouldn't be any gun hunters near me unless they are Trespassing .

[Doc]

Doc, just FYI gun and bow is already mixed in the NZ. I don't think I have heard of an instance where a ML hunter shot a bow hunter.

as far as no one taking these kids hunting before....this would be the first time they are eligible to gun hunt deer. kinda the point of the season...lol

I realize that, but that doesn't mean that I automatically feel good about that situation. I simply do not believe in mixing gun deer hunting with bow deer hunting.

As far as my comment about no one taking kids out hunting before, I am referring to the situation that made people want this youth season in the first place. I am assuming that the reason being given is that we have a recruitment of youth problem because nobody is doing it today during regular season. Those kids that we failed to recruit were first time eligible hunters as well and mentors have been dropping the ball completely. So what is it that is going to make us all of a sudden take interest in our youth and utilize this new season? Do you get what I'm trying to say? It was never the lack of a season that caused the lack of mentorship. It was the lack of interest by potential mentors. We have done nothing about motivating the mentors, and therefore I suspect nothing will really change relative to recruitment or participation in this new season. We have put the lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I understand . when you were talking about these kids I thought you were really referencing these kids. I think this is kind of catering to those that don't want their deer season interupted by dragging a kid along. I do have hopes it gets the kids hooked an a bit of a more controlled setting. I can remember the cold feet and sitting at teh base of a tree for hours with snow covering everything. tough sit for an 8 year old. Dad made it fun though and I hope some of these kids get to feel that. maybe we can get them involved in spite of the parents that don't want their season hampered.

[Doc]

I understand . when you were talking about these kids I thought you were really referencing these kids. I think this is kind of catering to those that don't want their deer season interupted by dragging a kid along. I do have hopes it gets the kids hooked an a bit of a more controlled setting. I can remember the cold feet and sitting at teh base of a tree for hours with snow covering everything. tough sit for an 8 year old. Dad made it fun though and I hope some of these kids get to feel that. maybe we can get them involved in spite of the parents that don't want their season hampered.

I tend to agree with you. I think one of the problems is that some of these guys really don't want to hand that shot at the buck over to their kids. Or maybe they anticipate that the kids might somehow otherwise disturb their hunt. That really doesn't sound like the kind of guy that will take time out from his weekend in October to attend (mentor) any kids during a special hunt. In fact, who knows, he may be busy bowhunting that weekend now that they have forced him to make a choice. So, I still wonder where all these mentors will be coming from that refused to offer such services before. See my feeling is that some percentage of the supporters of this season are these selfish hunters that want things both ways. So they are in favor of this special season hoping that someone else will take over the "burden" of mentoring their kids. Unfortunately there may be fewer mentors available since they have purposely overlapped the special season with bowhunting. And once again the job will not get done. But everybody will walk away patting themselves on the back for having solved the recruitment problem, unfortunately ending any creative thought on real innovative solutions.

Pessimist? ..... Maybe. Or maybe just a realist.

[growalot]

Maybe. Or maybe just a realist.

Naaa Doc...for a realist would not be ignoring the huge elephant that's in the room.....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Everyone is yelling at me saying "DON'T ASK"...but here goes....lol

What elephant, Grow?

[growalot]

If everyone is yelling perhaps you should have listened....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Oh come on....you know better than that,....lol. I never listen to all those voices in my head.

[joe12]

Originally I wasn't crazy about the youth hunt in the middle of bow season, but I think it is a good thing overall. I much rather see a kid out in the woods than sitting in the house in front of a video game. In terms of impacting bowhunters, my guess is that there will not be a ton of kids in the woods since it is limited to a certain age group.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Might sound a little odd but aside from my daughters Home coming Football game I will be in the tree stand all 3 days. I am trying for all day site. In a time of the year when most of the movement i see is at dawn and dusk it might help inject a little mid day movement.

[growalot]

I think one of the problems is that some of these guys really don't want to hand that shot at the buck over to their kids.

Culvert that right there is the Elephant...for it's those types of guys that more than like won't hand the shot over to the kids...The same type that get licenses for family members that don't actually hunt...The ones that curse bow hunters for the chance at "all the big buck".....while not wanting to put the time effort and money to bow hunt them self....So I'll watch the ODN pictures of the youth hunt and wonder, hope... many bucks of a life time young hunters magically shoot are actually theirs....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I won't deny that I believe some of that will be going on. I certainly HOPE they leave it for the kids. Part of the regulation for the hunt shouldbe that the parent/guardian/mentor can't handle the gun...loaded or unloaded.

[beachpeaz]

I agree in part to this. I personally don't want people using a cross-bow during archery because it is damn near a gun. I watch people shoot 80-100 yards with them. They have SCOPES! It is not "archery." On the same token, my father is 73 and can't pull back a standard bow. I would love for him to have the opportunity to hunt with me during bow season. There should be some exceptions to the law by application and just cause only.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I had a scope on my last compound bow and the range I practice at has targets every 10 out to 70 and one target at 90. I watch guys shoot it every night I go with the new modern compounds. I keep hearing crossbows being compared to guns and talk about shooting out to 100 yards. I am going to say something and I will probably get flamed for it but here goes. I bet half the members here and probably less percentage of that in the general hunting public could put 4 out of 5 shots off hand in a 12" circle at 100 yards...pick your gun. so I am not buying the tossing a crossbow in an ARCHERS hands and saying he is good to 100. I am not buying it.

better yet. they couldn't make 2 out of 5

Edited September 11, 2012 by Culvercreek hunt club

[beachpeaz]

I had a scope on my last compound bow and the range I practice at has targets every 10 out to 70 and one target at 90. I watch guys shoot it every night I go with the new modern compounds. I keep hearing crossbows being compared to guns and talk about shooting out to 100 yards. I am going to say something and I will probably get flamed for it but here goes. I bet half the members here and probably less percentage of that in the general hunting public could put 4 out of 5 shots off hand in a 12" circle at 100 yards...pick your gun. so I am not buying the tossing a crossbow in an ARCHERS hands and saying he is good to 100. I am not buying it.

better yet. they couldn't make 2 out of 5

I don't argue your point. Gun Hunter ehtics is a WHOLE separate subject. It is remarkable what people will do with a gun in their hands and how unethical a lot of people are with the shots they attempt. Agreed on that point.

Back to bowhunting. It is supposed to be a "primitive weapons hunt." Yeah, i know new bows are far from primitimve (no different than the fact that I would shoot my muzzloader over a rifle any day of the week). Regardless, it is SUPPOSED to be more difficult. Do you anchor your combound bow? Do you put it on a rest when you shoot it? NO. You use a scope, but you are 1 in a million who does. I just think having something that is 80, 90 even 100# draw weight (that you draw with your legs and arms), sitting on a pefect rest and having a scope will be a detriment to what once was a true archery season.

I am a purest, what can I say. Just my opinion, right or wrong.

[BizCT]

I know people who can shoot deer out to 100 yards with their compound bows, and elk out to 70 yards with them....I have a crossbow and wouldn't shoot past 40-45 yards.

[BizCT]

Fight it all you want.....everybody knows the truth:

The question is not if, its when will crossbows be allowed in archery in NY?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Beach its also remarkable how many guys take unethical shots with bows. Lack of ethics are not just a gun problem.

Also, bow season is not a primitive weapons season. Nothing primitive about an aluminum or carbon fiber riser, laminated limbs, aluminum cams, fiber optic sights, riser mounted laser range finders, carbon fiber arrows, mechanical broadheads, etc etc. Its more of a season set aside for a type of weapon with a pretty short range.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I don't argue your point. Gun Hunter ehtics is a WHOLE separate subject. It is remarkable what people will do with a gun in their hands and how unethical a lot of people are with the shots they attempt. Agreed on that point.

Back to bowhunting. It is supposed to be a "primitive weapons hunt." Yeah, i know new bows are far from primitimve (no different than the fact that I would shoot my muzzloader over a rifle any day of the week). Regardless, it is SUPPOSED to be more difficult. Do you anchor your combound bow? Do you put it on a rest when you shoot it? NO. You use a scope, but you are 1 in a million who does. I just think having something that is 80, 90 even 100# draw weight (that you draw with your legs and arms), sitting on a pefect rest and having a scope will be a detriment to what once was a true archery season.

I am a purest, what can I say. Just my opinion, right or wrong.

Just so I can understand you position. I dont recal anyone saying that YOU had to use one. SO what would teh inclusion in archery season have to do with you? I think as a group the bowhunters that are against archery are too worried about what other are doing. Since there is a past comment in another thread about the elephant inthe room let's say it again. if they aren't saying you have to hunt that way, what is left for this pureist motivation. Scared some other less deserving hunter will tag their deer?

[sampotter]

I have never heard anyone else bring it up so I will: If we designate seperate seasons for muzzleloaders and shotguns/rifles, then why would we have crossbows and vertical bows share the same season? Obviously there are a lot less differences between MLs and shotguns than there are between CBs and VBs. I support allowing CBs in bow season only for those with a permanent, documented disability that does not allow them to shoot a vertical bow.

Crossbows require a lot less practice to be proficient with. I enjoy bow season because I can see deer nearly every time I go out and they are doing normal deer things. Gun season is a crapshoot around here- most of the deer I see are ones running from the neighbor's land. Normal deer activity totally shuts down. If crossbows were allowed in bow season there would be a large influx of folks that had never bowhunted before because it was "too much work". I enjoy the solitude of bowhunting and the liklihood of seeing game.

I'm sure there are some that would call me selfish or elitist. Bowhunting is not an exclusive club. There's a reason why some trout streams are flyfishing only. If you want to get the first crack at the bucks then put in the time and pay your dues.

[jjb4900]

Why is it that people see the youth hunt as an army of unsupervised kids shooting recklessly at anything that moves, accompanied by an adult who just want's to get their kid's hunt out of the way so they won't be burdened taking their child out during the regular season?

[Doc]

Just so I can understand you position. I dont recal anyone saying that YOU had to use one. SO what would teh inclusion in archery season have to do with you? I think as a group the bowhunters that are against archery are too worried about what other are doing. Since there is a past comment in another thread about the elephant inthe room let's say it again. if they aren't saying you have to hunt that way, what is left for this pureist motivation. Scared some other less deserving hunter will tag their deer?

Lol .... here we go again. Are these the 2012 summer re-runs? Kind of another version of oldies as applied to hunting topics.....lol. Break out the popcorn folks.

[sampotter]

Lol .... here we go again. Are these the 2012 summer re-runs? Kind of another version of oldies as applied to hunting topics.....lol. Break out the popcorn folks.

Doc- I'm sure most of these same arguments have been made before. I wish there was a way to present old threads as a HuntingNy "encylopedia" or archive that was easy to look through and see if someone already said it.

[Doc]

Why is it that people see the youth hunt as an army of unsupervised kids shooting recklessly at anything that moves, accompanied by an adult who just want's to get their kid's hunt out of the way so they won't be burdened taking their child out during the regular season?

First of fall, no one has described the youth hunt as "an army of unsupervised kids shooting recklessly at anything that moves". I'm not sure what you have been reading, but if anyone said any such thing I must have missed it.

As far as what is in the minds of those that have not been mentoring their kids in the past and keeping up with the recruitment needs, is anybody's guess, but obviously it is not getting done. Apparently taking a kid out during the regular season is a "burden" to an awful lot of hunters, at least that's what seems to be historically indicated.

[Doc]

Doc- I'm sure most of these same arguments have been made before. I wish there was a way to present old threads as a HuntingNy "encylopedia" or archive that was easy to look through and see if someone already said it.

No, nobody would read them. The minds are already made up. It's just a favorite topic that has to come up every so many months so people can vent. Archiving is not near as much fun as venting ..... lol.