Antler Restrictions

[sampotter]

PA's deer numbers are down... to a level the habitat can support! I've read the reminiscent stuff sour PA hunters have said about the way it used to be- seeing 20+ deer at a time. That's all they've ever known. Now they see a deer or 2 per sit and think the herd has been destroyed. In reality the herd is a lot healthier and is the way it should be. Guys like Gary Alt are highly educated in wildlife management. In fact he has a PHD in it. I'm going to have to trust his judgement over any number of hunters. Would you rather have a committee of Grey's Anatomy fanatics directing your open heart surgery or the guy that spent 20 years of actual training?

Edited September 28, 2012 by sampotter

[nyantler]

PA's deer numbers are down... to a level the habitat can support! I've read the reminiscent stuff sour PA hunters have said about the way it used to be- seeing 20+ deer at a time. That's all they've ever known. Now they see a deer or 2 per sit and think the herd has been destroyed. In reality the herd is a lot healthier and is the way it should be. Guys like Gary Alt are highly educated in wildlife management. In fact he has a PHD in it. I'm going to have to trust his judgement over any number of hunters. Would you rather have a committee of Grey's Anatomy fanatics directing your open heart surgery or the guy that spent 20 years of actual training?

Good point.. a point many hunters don't understand... seeing a lot of deer is not always a good thing... and seeing less deer is not necessarly a bad thing

Edited September 28, 2012 by nyantler

[sidewinder]

personaly speaking i do not feel like i am a trigger happy hunter. in my lifetime i have taken several 8 pointer's some 6's busted5's and yes spike's fork's and does. every season i think about what it would be like to hoist up on a 12 to a 16 pt buck. every year i go into the wood's saying this might be the year. in all honesty i have been lucky at least i can still hunt and get excited about the thought of hunting. i really dont think NY neesd's another law telling a hunter what he/she can or cannot take. for those of you that let a smaller buck pass........ good for you that is your choice and i respect that. for those of you that go out and fill your tags legally........ i respect that as well. plain and simply put it comes down to a choice. it should never come down to one group making a choice for another.... just my humble 2$

[Suilleabhain]

My problem, I can't find a deer with 3 points on one side. All i see have 3 or more on both sides.

[Buckstopshere]

Sam: Just because somebody has a degree does not make them all-knowing and can't be bought.

And Gary Alt was a hatchet man, did his job and like all hatchet men...was paid and given the golden parachute.

If you hunted Pa. you would see that the hervbaceous cover and mast crops can support many times more deer than are here. Two other factors: one is the addition of mego..macro food plots...acres of turnips, clover, brassicas...and one deer. Also, the mild winters have taken out of the equation any deer kill mortality.

No, what is driving the issue from my perspective is two things...one is elitism from our brother deer hunters who think that they have a higher plane of ethics than somebody who hunts because they need the meat, and two, the timber interests that are concerned with the way that deer shape the future of the forest.

Pa. hunters got sold a bill of goods by being promised that AR's and the necessary depletion of the doe herd (to let the bucks grow even bigger horns...) that "Joe Hunter" would have his day and see a trophy buck.

I drank the KoolAid too. I thought, let's see, let's give it a try...we can always go back. But the timber interests and the stubborn trophy hunters are standing in the way of going back.

And what I fear... not so much for me,...but for the young Pa. hunters...they are not going to go out there and sit for days and not see a deer. They are going to quit and get on their computers....

[Buckstopshere]

www.acsl-pa.org

If you care to read about how the Pa. deer herd in the Northcentral part of the Commonwealth went down the tubes, check out this link. It seems pretty irrefutable.

[wdswtr]

ok so we got one guy that is against being told what he can and cant take. but is hunting on private land that the owner has placed his own restrictions (being told what you can and cant take)?? there is plenty of public land at your disposal if your so against having restrictions.

There is a very large difference in being told what to do and having the option to oblige by landowner rules dont you think? You see if there is no choice in the matter and AR is mandatory that means = no choice. Now if you get permission to hunt on someone elses land that has specific rules= its your choice to decide if you hunt there or not. There is no comparison in your personal debate against another member.

[13BVET]

It just goes to show that jetmec lives in a different world than we do. All landowners have rules, and, for me, I'm more than happy to go by this landowners rules, considering that I have about 30 acres all to myself. A great trade off, in my opinion!

[13BVET]

ok so we got one guy that is against being told what he can and cant take. but is hunting on private land that the owner has placed his own restrictions (being told what you can and cant take)?? there is plenty of public land at your disposal if your so against having restrictions.

So, you're saying that if you had permission to hunt private property, that you wouldn't follow the guidelines set forth by that landowner, allowing you the privilege to hunt there? No wonder some landowners don't allow hunting on their property anymore.

[wdswtr]

Kind of odd Jetmec and PETERBFLY have alot in common. Lets see jet/fly joined on same day and have same number of post. Is this one of those same guy two member name deals to troll his own points twice with two different names? If Im wrong sorry about that but we have seen this game more than once on here.

[13BVET]

It does seem odd.

[jetmec]

What has to be taken into account, at least for the time being, is that there are new hunters who have taken up the sport due to the poor economy. They have done this, of course, to put food in the freezer the cheapest way possible. So, would enacting AR's statewide have a negative impact on these people?

you keep holding onto this point. and yes i agree to an extent.but someone that can not afford to put food on there table certainly can not afford to go out buy a gun or bow, ammunition, license etc. to go hunting. lets be realistic the cost to go hunting is far more expensive then going to the supermarket and buying a few pounds of chop meat.

[shawnhu]

I think the Antler Restriction Program is GREAT and I hope it spreads to the entire Southern Zone of NY soon. I am tired of passing up little buck after little buck only to let some other trigger happy hunter kill it. Why cant the quality of bucks in NY be just as good as it is out west? If you want meat for your freezer, shoot a doe. Let the 1.5 YO bucks walk and then you will start to see some quality results. I love to bow hunt and take as many does as I can. I think NY has Potential for some nice bucks, but you trigger happy, part time gun hunters need to stop killing the little bucks.. Most of you refuse to shoot does also, which makes it even worse. I have seen so many pathetic 2.5 YO bucks that could have been so much better, but will never be because of the POOR management in NY. Lots of people will totally disagree with me, but go hunt with an outfitter in Illinois and see QDM at its finest. They have tons of deer and tons of BIG BUCKS.. If you hunt somewhere that you hardly see deer, then may I suggest hunting somewhere better or correcting whatever mistakes you are making so the deer are not educated to your presence.

Why don't you move out to where those big bucks are then? Meat hunters will always be around, so if they start killing all the does, what do you think will happen to the deer population in 5 years? Think there will be any bucks left for your sorry trophy ass to shoot? Think about that for a second.

[jetmec]

So, you're saying that if you had permission to hunt private property, that you wouldn't follow the guidelines set forth by that landowner, allowing you the privilege to hunt there? No wonder some landowners don't allow hunting on their property anymore.

i have no problem following guidelines or restrictions.i hunt on private land and i own land also. you are the one that is crying the blues about an antler restriction being put in place. your rights are being taken away, its only being done for bow hunters etc etc etc. if most of you are so educated on managing deer then why is there one decent answer on this post as to what you think needs to be done? the only thing i see on here is all of you finding every excuse as to why it doesn't need to be done. you want to shoot spikes go mow em down thats your preference me personally i wont and i think it has a negative impact in the long run

[13BVET]

i have no problem following guidelines or restrictions.i hunt on private land and i own land also. you are the one that is crying the blues about an antler restriction being put in place. your rights are being taken away, its only being done for bow hunters etc etc etc. if most of you are so educated on managing deer then why is there one decent answer on this post as to what you think needs to be done? the only thing i see on here is all of you finding every excuse as to why it doesn't need to be done. you want to shoot spikes go mow em down thats your preference me personally i wont and i think it has a negative impact in the long run

Who was crying the blues about anything? YOU'RE the one who was crying the blues about people shooting spikes. So, show me where I specified that I shoot spikes. You remind me of some of the little sissies we had in basic years ago. Whine, whine, whine, when things weren't the way they wanted them. Grow up already!

Now, wait a minute. You're the self proclaimed expert on the subject-why don't YOU tell us what needs to be done, since you're obviously so much smarter than anyone else............

Now, wait a minute. You were telling me to hunt public land before, and you hunt private land, and own your own land???? Well, most of us don't have the luxury of owning land. I have nothing against those that do, as a rule, but in your case I'll make an exception!

Edited September 29, 2012 by 13BVET

[13BVET]

you keep holding onto this point. and yes i agree to an extent.but someone that can not afford to put food on there table certainly can not afford to go out buy a gun or bow, ammunition, license etc. to go hunting. lets be realistic the cost to go hunting is far more expensive then going to the supermarket and buying a few pounds of chop meat.

Well, I'll be damned! Is it even remotely possible that they owned these hunting implements before they lost their job?! Is it also possible someone might have loaned them a few bucks to get their license? Let's see-a whole deer for about $20, or one or two pieces of meat for $20? It's a friggin no brainer!

[13BVET]

Well, I have to go to work. Then I have to go to a veterans meeting tomorrow, so I won't be able to argue with your sorry self until tomorrow night. What a pity.

[PETERBFLY]

Doesnt matter, you are all fill the tag hunters and I am a horn hunter. We will never see eye to eye. Lets leave it at that. Every person I hunt with agrees with me, so we will continue to pass the young bucks.

Vet-My shooting of does has absolutely nothing to do with age class. It was to prove that not all Pro-AR people are against shooting does, which was mentioned in a previous post. Around in circles we go... Im done with this nonsense. You all have your minds made up. If you ever come fish down on Long Island, let me know how you like throwing back almost every fish that you catch because of the regulations.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doesnt matter, you are all fill the tag hunters and I am a horn hunter. We will never see eye to eye. Lets leave it at that. Every person I hunt with agrees with me, so we will continue to pass the young bucks.

Vet-My shooting of does has absolutely nothing to do with age class. It was to prove that not all Pro-AR people are against shooting does, which was mentioned in a previous post. Around in circles we go... Im done with this nonsense. You all have your minds made up. If you ever come fish down on Long Island, let me know how you like throwing back almost every fish that you catch because of the regulations.

Please, you dont even know any of us. You just keep making yourself look more like a dummy with every post.

[G-Man]

lets see wny seems to have quite a few red and orange areas, without antler restrictions despite the high hunter numbers in this area.Seems wisconson leads and no anter restrictions and bonus buck tags can be earned.. if you want a trophy buck you need to hunt where they exist!! Trying to get a trophy buck by manipulation the habitat /age is like trying to squeese blood from a stone... especially when the land area affected is small and hunter per square mile is high.

Edited September 29, 2012 by G-Man

[Paula]

Doesnt matter, you are all fill the tag hunters and I am a horn hunter. We will never see eye to eye. Lets leave it at that. Every person I hunt with agrees with me, so we will continue to pass the young bucks.

wish i could be there to shoot the deer you let walk

[PETERBFLY]

How would you say I make myself look like a dummy? Its really a very simple concept. If I let a 1.5 YO buck walk, he will grow to be a bigger 2.5 YO buck Right? So if he and all the other young bucks which are normally shot make it, now you have almost 100% more bucks in the area. So if only one or two of the 2.5 YO bucks make it through hunting season, now we are talking a very smart 3.5 YO buck or two. Thats all I want. A 3.5 YO buck in my area might score 115-120 if im lucky and I am satisfied with that. Im not expecting a 180 class 12 pointer because we dont have the genetics, but the overall quality should definitely improve. What is dumb about that?????????????????????????????????

[PETERBFLY]

How would you say I make myself look like a dummy? Its really a very simple concept. If I let a 1.5 YO buck walk, he will grow to be a bigger 2.5 YO buck Right? So if he and all the other young bucks which are normally shot make it, now you have almost 100% more bucks in the area. So if only one or two of the 2.5 YO bucks make it through hunting season, now we are talking a very smart 3.5 YO buck or two. Thats all I want. A 3.5 YO buck in my area might score 115-120 if im lucky and I am satisfied with that. Im not expecting a 180 class 12 pointer because we dont have the genetics, but the overall quality should definitely improve. What is dumb about that?????????????????????????????????

[tughillhunter]

you bitching about nonsense is making you look like a dummy.

[G-Man]

problem is a 1.5 year old buck will dispurse, leaving you with no 2.5 year old buck cause he's is down on the neighbors or miles away.if you don't have the habitat the deer will move to areas that do, several miles away in the case of bucks, land ownership in the state consists of many small landowners. imposing rules regulations on them is the same as being taxed without representation.. no wonder people are against ar's. even if the make great sence on paper enacting them is a whole different ball of wax.... education will be the only way this changes and you cannot bend everone to your way of thinking..impossible. do what you can on your own, recruit like minded neighbors.. we have enough rules and regs in this state already!!