Do you wear Orange? If so why? If not Why not? :)

[wztirem]

Perhaps the following should have been posted on the "How other Hunters irritate you " thread but nevertheless. For those who have hunted at California Hill in Putnam County, they may have seen the hunter who dresses in buckskins,wears a raccoon skin cap, hunts with a flintlock and forgoes wearing blaze orange. I have encountered him several times (HE STILL HUNTS) and myself and others have berated him for being so irresponsible. He never answers, just stares stoically at you, like a cigar store Indian. The ENCONS know of him too and just shake their heads in disbelief when you mention him.

[jimbodwb]

I wear an orange vest and hat whenever walking through the woods whether on public or private land. I guess I am just like Jim W seeing he taught me most of what I know about hunting. I also hang up my vest on one side of me and my hat on the other so other hunters can see me from any direction. My hunting coat is reversible so if I am on state land I always have the orange side out but if I am on private land I will wear the camo side out and just wear the orange vest while moving. I personally would not care if it was mandatory to wear blaze orange but unfortunately this states lawmakers would probably screw it up so bad we would not be allowed to wear any camo and our guns would have to painted blaze orange also.

[Landowner]

During the Bow season I wear a reversible orange and camo hat, I also wear a orange vest to the stand and back. I do noy wear orange when in my stand. I live in Orange County NY. I own about 50 acres, hunt about 90 total. I have had a lot of trespassers on my land and the other. Can never be to safe!!.

Quote!! GET OFF MY LAND...

Landowner.

[Big John]

I wear Orange during the gun seasons but, not during bow.

[bubba]

the truth is you are mor elikely to get hurt walking to your stad or falling out of a tree stand that getting shot.  But if I had to hunt in the war zone I hear  the southern tier is, I would quit hunting.

[Doc]

Because hunting is actually a very safe activity, that is no reason to relax known hunting safety precautions. That's something we all learn in hunter safety training, and very good reasons. It's never good to develop the "It can never happen to me" attitude.

To put a bit of a humorous but accurate spin on it all, even though the odds are a bit long for becoming a hunting accident victim, that saying that the NYS Lottery people developed applies equally to hunting accidents. You know the one that goes something like, "Hey, you never know!" Your odds of being a victim are pretty low, until you start willingly doing things that promote target mis-identification or make you harder to indentify a "no-shoot" situation for other hunters. Then, Hey, you never know.

Doc

[bubba]

I can also get hurt driving my truck without a seatblet or my motorcycle without a helmet.  I do not need the govt to tell me to wear them anymore than I need to govt to tell me to wear orange.  Again if I hunted in an area I was so afraid of being shot, I would not hunt there.

[wztirem]

I just do not get it, Why would anyone not want to wear some form of "blaze orange" in the woods during the open gun season! Its in insane, reckless and irresponsible for one not to take any and all available  precautions to insure ones safety in any endeavor. I guees its the superman mentality or it will not happen to me mentality.

Seat belts work as do helmets on motorcycles. Such requirements are necessary, it does not take a mental midget to realize this! Besides, seat belts and helmets save lives!

[bubba]

If you are in a bad wreck on a bike a helmet might mean an open casket. Come on it is some styrofoam and fiberglass.  There are also times when a person is trapped in a vehicle and dies due to a seatbelt.  If you read my post it says they are usefull.  However why are seatbelts and helmets only necessary in some states and not others if they are so essential?  I guess some states think people still have a choice. If BO is so essemtial why is it only is some states, and why only during some seasons and not others?.  With these new 250 yard deadly muzzleloaders and 300 fps bows, I can be killed with them just as easy.  If it is going to be mandatory, it shoud be mandatory for all big game seasons, not just pick and choose which ones accommodate you. If deer do not see it, why would it make a difference?  if it is the only thing to keep hunters safe, they should be safe all the time, or not at all.  So stop being hypocritical and advocate for BO for all big game seasons, or not at all.

[jimbodwb]

Hey Bubba, your seat belt argument is kinda weak. All states except New Hampshire have seat belt laws.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/seatbelt_laws.html

But I do have to agree with you in saying if it is gonna be mandatory in one season, then it should be mandatory in all seasons or none. It needs to be a uniform law or no law at all. I will always wear a seat belt in a car, helmet while riding a motorcycle, and Blaze Orange while in the woods during any hunting season. Remember, small game season is going on during bow hunting season so there is guns in the woods while bow hunting.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I think the point Bubba is trying to make...and he did...is why a governmant mandate? If you are smart enough to realize the benefits and want to wear it it should be your choice. And let's face it, if there are folks that aren't bright enough to reralize the benefit of BO...seatbelts....helemts and any number of other safety measures.....would it be a bad thinkg if they were taken out of the gene pool....not to sound calous but survival of the fitest has been around for millions of years. (bad start to the week...lol)

[Doc]

If it is going to be mandatory, it shoud be mandatory for all big game seasons, not just pick and choose which ones accommodate you.

Well, precedent shows that this "all or nothing" argument doesn't hold water. Where in all the states that have helmet laws, is there even one that requires people to wear helmets in cars, trucks, tractors, etc.? Your line of reasoning would demand that in order to be consistant, helmets should be mandated on all motor vehicles. Of course that would be stupid and senseless and make about as much sense as demanding blaze orange during bow seasons. Yes, I hope members here are able to make judgements as to where some lines of reasoning make absolute sense and where they are simply being stretched as foolish extensions designed only to muddy the waters of the actual discussion. Anyone who equates the usefulness of blaze orange during gun season with it's use during bow season, is not really being  serious about this discussion. With muzzle loader seasons there may be some logical comparison and room for discussion of a blaze orange law. But, first things first.

As to the need for a blaze orange law, there were links posted earlier on this thread for those that are interested in the facts of the argument that show that without a question blaze orange saves lives in a whole bunch of states and has the potential to save more in states that have yet to see the wisdom of such a requirement. Those that didn't read it should now go back and do so.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00044112.htm

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/safety/docs/Hunting_Associated_Injuries_and_Wearing_Hunter_Orange_Clothing.pdf

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3MRuEfjx3l0J:www.dfw.state.or.us/resources/hunting/safety/hunter_orange.asp+Reasons+for+mandatory+blaze+orange+while+hunting&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

All of these articles definitely show why such a law should be adopted by this state and why there is no serious argument against that point.

If there were some logical imposition or reason for not having such a law, I could understand the opposition. But there are no legitimate reasons and no sensible reason to oppose such a thing. Frankly, I don't get it. Is it some kind of rebellious fashion statement? The only thing I can imagine is that the opposition is coming from those that want to exercise their right to stupidity, or have some sort of desire to commit "suicide by hunter"  :

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc, I hate the fact that a law is required to have folks do the right and sane thing....anything...not just BO. Where I think the BO differs from the helmet and seatbelt laws is this. If John Doe decides to no wear a seatbelt....hits a tree----NO effect on me.....If John doesn't wear a helmet and has to lay his bike down and suffer massive head injuries----No effect on me......NOw if John decides to slide into my legally posted property in full camo....plopps down behind a bush and a deer wals between me and him....His poor decission could have an impact on me.

Like I have stated in many threads before I am the last one to be for any more imposition by the Government, but I could understand this argument, because it effects others not just the one choosing not to wear BO.

[Doc]

Doc, I hate the fact that a law is required to have folks do the right and sane thing....anything...not just BO. Where I think the BO differs from the helmet and seatbelt laws is this. If John Doe decides to no wear a seatbelt....hits a tree----NO effect on me.....If John doesn't wear a helmet and has to lay his bike down and suffer massive head injuries----No effect on me......NOw if John decides to slide into my legally posted property in full camo....plopps down behind a bush and a deer walks between me and him....His poor decission could have an impact on me.

Like I have stated in many threads before I am the last one to be for any more imposition by the Government, but I could understand this argument, because it effects others not just the one choosing not to wear BO.

The fact is that very little happens in today's word that doesn't impact a whole lot of other people. One example comes to mind immediately. When someone is very stupid and does something that unnecessarily causes his death (perhaps your example of the motorcyclist that refuses to wear a helmet and then gets into an accident). First of all, if he is not killed, then we may have a vegetable on our hands in a hospital room that becomes a huge burden on his family until finally their finances are exhausted and then both he and his family become wards of the state and WE pay. If he croaks, his family is again usually devastated with the loss of the breadwinner, and again we may wind up paying the bill to keep them fed, clothed, educated, and supplied with cable TV. No matter what the situation, whether its helmets or blaze orange, there is a very high likelihood that we will be impacted, and even to a greater extent, spouses and children are also impacted. So yes, if some how magically everyone who decides to practice stupidity were truly the only ones to be effected, I might have a different attitude. Also, your comment about the jerk in camo who sneaks onto your land and gets blown away, is another very good example. I don't care who you are, just try to live with something like that. Yes that could be a huge effect on somebody else's life.

I'm not a big fan of government worming their way into our private lives, but every day, the ripple effect of acts of stupidity affect more and more people other than the person who doesn't seem to know how to properly conduct their lives. It's a shame, but I do believe that if you had the data, you could put a price tag on stupidity that is payed by every taxpayer, and I don't think anyone would be real pleased with the bottom line tab.

Doc

[bubba]

I also believe if someone gets shot in the woods the charge should be murder. doc your response about helmets on everything is weak. Just a response to say you responded again sad but true.  Your argument would work if the law said helmet laws only on state roads but not on county or town roads. If you are so much for BO, why are you against it for all seasons not just when joe stupido with a gun is in the woods?  If there is one state that does not have a seatbelt law, my statement stands.  I said there are some states that let people think for themselves. 

[Doc]

I also believe if someone gets shot in the woods the charge should be murder. doc your response about helmets on everything is weak. Just a response to say you responded again sad but true.  Your argument would work if the law said helmet laws only on state roads but not on county or town roads. If you are so much for BO, why are you against it for all seasons not just when joe stupido with a gun is in the woods?  If there is one state that does not have a seatbelt law, my statement stands.  I said there are some states that let people think for themselves.

You didn't even get the point I was making, did you? It went right over your head. ...... No, I'm not going to get drawn off into irrelevant side discussions about helmets and seatbelts. I think I have been clear in my response, and I really can't waste time attempting to have a sensible discussion with someone who cannot (or will not) recognize the difference in magnitude between the need for B/O in a gun season and B/O in a bow season.  :  If you ever decide to read some of the data in those links and actually educate yourself on the facts of the subject, you will see that there is no data that would show the need for B/O in a bow season, but that the need in gun season is clear. Open your mind up for a change and actually read some of the data that I have spoon-fed to you rather than trying to deflect and sideline the discussion into random irrelevant directions.

I will just leave you with this thought: you are welcome to defend the right for you to be stupid, and I will continue to support laws that might save your life inspite of yourself. While you are worrying about the great fashion dillema that such a law might cause you, hopefully NYS will recognize what so many other states have already implemented and actually look at the data that they themselves have collected (which is in those links that you obviously are ignoring), and someday pass a blaze orange law to protect some of these idiots from themselves and humanitarian issues aside, save the taxpayers the expense of taking care of the mess left behind by these un-thinking idiots.

Doc

[bubba]

if you go back and read my posts, if you are capable of comprehending them, I said way back I wear orange. What my point is and continues to be is there is no need for it to be mandatory. And if it mandatory, it should be for all seasons, not just the ones you and others seem to want pick. It should be all or nothing.  I typed slow so you can keep up.  When people lash out as you did, it just means they have nothing more intelligent to say. I know this because human nature and behavior is my job.  I understand your frustration, but you cant always be right no matter how much you think you are. Have a good day.

[Doc]

if you go back and read my posts, if you are capable of comprehending them, I said way back I wear orange. What my point is and continues to be is there is no need for it to be mandatory. And if it mandatory, it should be for all seasons, not just the ones you and others seem to want pick. It should be all or nothing.  I typed slow so you can keep up.  When people lash out as you did, it just means they have nothing more intelligent to say. I know this because human nature and behavior is my job.  I understand your frustration, but you cant always be right no matter how much you think you are. Have a good day.

Easy there big guy ...... calm down. You have your opinion and I have mine. You just happen to be wrong is all ...... lol. By the way are you ever going to read the info on those links I supplied so you can finally sound a little bit like you know what you're talking about. Try learning a bit about the nature of hunting accidents and maybe it will start to come clear to you why a mandatory blaze orange law during the gun season will save lives and has anywhere the people had the sense to apply it. Maybe you will even discover for yourself why any sensible person might use their intelligence a bit and pick and chose which seasons it actually makes sense and where it doesn't. It's all right there if you want to take the time to educate yourself. That old saying about leading a horse to water really does hold true .

Doc

[bubba]

Why would I need to? Your opinion is the only one that matters and if others have a varying opinion, you attack them. So there is no debate with  a narcissist (look that one up).  So because maybe a few less people will be shot during muzzleloading or bow, it is ok not to be safe as possible?  Just  a question  We both well at least I know that any statistics can be swayed to make an argument on either side of a debate.  You see them one way I see them another. So good luck thi sseason and I hope you survive the war in the southern tier.  You may want to get a flashing light to attach to a hat so you are even safer. The best way to stay safe would be to cancel all hunting. No one hunts no one gets shot. Geesh what a maroon.

[Doc]

if you go back and read my posts, if you are capable of comprehending them, I said way back I wear orange.

I took your advice, and here's what I found:

Re: Do you wear Orange? If so why? If not Why not?   « Reply #48 on: July 14, 2010, 09:12:22 pm »

When huntng sate land, I wear orange. On private property no.

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« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2010, 05:53:44 pm »

If you feel more secure in orange, so be it. If I feel secure in camo, so be it. 

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« Reply #113 on: August 16, 2010, 06:03:11 am »

I feel that bo is as big a gimmick as having the have the newest camo patterns to hunt. 

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So, I think it's pretty clear that you do not wear blaze orange on private land. Further, you feel that blaze orange is a "gimmick". And apparently you feel perfectly secure in camo during gun seasons.

What makes all this even worse is that you are a hunting safety instructor who is passing all this ridiculous garbage on to future hunters. That's frightening!!

Doc

[bubba]

Then I would say become an instructor and preach the gospel.  If you knew what is in the curriculum, you would know using blaze orange is recommended but not to be mandatory per the Dec. You know put up or shut up.  A bit of parting advice for you ok.  Sometimes it is better to be quiet and let people think you dont know anything than to run your mouth and prove it. I find it hilarious that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and has no clue about reality. I would suggest you look up narcissist.  That is all I can say.

[Doc]

Then I would say become an instructor and preach the gospel.  If you knew what is in the curriculum, you would know using blaze orange is recommended but not to be mandatory per the Dec. You know put up or shut up.  A bit of parting advice for you ok.  Sometimes it is better to be quiet and let people think you dont know anything than to run your mouth and prove it. I find it hilarious that anyone who disagrees with you is stupid and has no clue about reality. I would suggest you look up narcissist.  That is all I can say.

First of all, that nice big new word that you're so proud of finally learning has been around longer than you, and I am familiar with the meaning.  :  I am glad that you are working on your vocabulary and take such joy in learning a new word but you are quite a ways behind me on that one.

As far as taking part in the hunter education program, I have assisted in a whole bunch of sessions, and I understand that there is nothing in there that says that blaze orange is mandatory. That would be incorrect ....... obviously :  Did I ever say that the law is currently any different? I thought that's what we were talking about.

As far as calling stupid behavior what it is, I can only tell you that when it comes to hunter safety, I do take the subject very seriously and generally do speak my mind about it (not always in politically correct terms). Especially when I have data such as I provided and that apparently you will not or can not read. Further, I do get a bit testy when I find out that someone who is spewing such nonsense is out there teaching youngsters that blaze orange is a "gimmick". Perhaps it is wrong to point out stupidity, but I have never really been able to just ignore it, particularly when it involves hunter safety. Sorry, but I generally try to be clear and never leave you wondering what's really on my mind.

Doc

[bubba]

have you ever attended one of my classes and heard me say hunter orange is a gimmick? umm no you just assume I do. And you know what happens when we ASS U ME.  I teach what the curriculum says to teach.  Oh you are a class wannabe, not one to step up and get certified I see.  Or maybe you cant pass the checks to get certified. See I can assume also. A man of your vast intelligence would be a greas asset to the program. Get through the necessary steps to teach and I will galdly have you to one of my classes and show you how it is done. ALso.if you think you are way ahead of me in the psychiatric field I seriously doubt that since I am a PNP and work in the field every day for many years, and have treated many like you. Have a nice day. It scares me that someone with so much hate runs aroind the woods with a gun.  I am gald I hunt the safe northern zone. 

[Doc]

have you ever attended one of my classes and heard me say hunter orange is a gimmick? umm no you just assume I do. And you know what happens when we ASS U ME.  I teach what the curriculum says to teach.  Oh you are a class wannabe, not one to step up and get certified I see.  Or maybe you cant pass the checks to get certified. See I can assume also. A man of your vast intelligence would be a greas asset to the program. Get through the necessary steps to teach and I will galdly have you to one of my classes and show you how it is done. ALso.if you think you are way ahead of me in the psychiatric field I seriously doubt that since I am a PNP and work in the field every day for many years, and have treated many like you. Have a nice day. It scares me that someone with so much hate runs aroind the woods with a gun.  I am gald I hunt the safe northern zone.

It actually bothers me that your response was not really an actual denial. Does that mean that you do spew that "B/O is a gimmick" nonsense in your classes and I just haven't been there to hear it? Perhaps we have evidence of a need for better screening in instructor selection.

Well, as usual, you have decided against intelligent discussion and have simply been reduced to flopping on the floor, frothing at the mouth, blindly and mindlessly lashing out with the attempted pointless lame insults. Conversation with you is actually quite a waste of time. Why bother? In fact I guess I won't.   .......By the way, some day when you don't feel quite as close-minded, do yourself a favor and read the material in those links that I provided. It won't hurt you I promise and you might find out that a little education in what you are trying to talk about is not always a bad thing.

Doc

[wztirem]

have you ever attended one of my classes and heard me say hunter orange is a gimmick? umm no you just assume I do. And you know what happens when we ASS U ME.  I teach what the curriculum says to teach.  Oh you are a class wannabe, not one to step up and get certified I see.  Or maybe you cant pass the checks to get certified. See I can assume also. A man of your vast intelligence would be a greas asset to the program. Get through the necessary steps to teach and I will galdly have you to one of my classes and show you how it is done. ALso.if you think you are way ahead of me in the psychiatric field I seriously doubt that since I am a PNP and work in the field every day for many years, and have treated many like you. Have a nice day. It scares me that someone with so much hate runs aroind the woods with a gun.  I am gald I hunt the safe northern zone.

I am glad to hunt in the southern zone.

Perhaps you can can diagnose all the posters who disagree with you. Flame away!