Are you FOR or AGAINST a change?

[Elmo]

It seems that Elmo has been drinking the Ray Kelly/Bloomberg punch.

This has nothing to do with guns from Georgia, and everything to do with the cultural and moral decay of society. Who gives a shit where the gun came from ? We should be concerned with why feral inner city youth, and adderall fogged suburban losers feel the need to shoot people. They both have things in common. ZERO respect for human life, lack of supervision, zero consequences for every time they have fucked up in life... You can't blame Hollywood, video games or any other crap. Blame their "parents", or "parent" as the case may be.

No law or set of laws is going to protect us from people that just don't give a fuck. Passing more of them is proof that our gov't doesn't trust us not to act like animals.

On the contrary, I hate Ray Kelly and Michael Bloomberg which makes me believe you're not following my point. The ridiculous amount of restrictions I have to deal with in NYC is a major joke. Getting licensed and registering is easy.

I'm asking for a unifromed law across all states and a removal of restrictions and in it's place, have a national license and registration process. A renewal requirement for the license but a reduction in it's fees. In other words, rather than ban guns, forces licencing and registration instead.

[noob52]

What is with you and registration? Should it be public record also?

You shouldn't advocate forcing bullshit on everyone else just because nyc sucks, and you're stuck in it.

[Elmo]

What is with you and registration? Should it be public record also?

You shouldn't advocate forcing bullshit on everyone else just because nyc sucks, and you're stuck in it.

Why do you feel like you need to get hostile? I'm offering a solution. You don't have to accept it.

[shawnhu]

Why do you feel like you need to get hostile? I'm offering a solution. You don't have to accept it.

Sounds like more than most on here have done so far. Noob, what's yours?

[Single_shot]

2nd isn't about hunting. Never was.

Why would anyone like this? Limit it to 3 then you shotty is gonezo.

[noob52]

Well... One of the few things i like about ny's system is the mental health disclosure for a pistol permit. At least i think it is a state thing. Could be a westchester thing. Who cares, I like it, and would be ok with it for all firearms.

Severe criminal penalties for anyone who's child uses their firearms illegally. Dont like it ? too bad, secure your weapons better... Mag restrictions? BS issue... I can reload pretty fast, so can you, so can a bad guy.

Aside from that, lets make punishment for illegal gun use and posession really harsh. Like mandatory minimum 10 freakin years harsh. No early out. I dont give a **** how overcrowded the jails are, or how much it will cost.

Won't stop them all. But hey... You CAN'T stop em all. That's the point.

***Edited for inappropriate language***

[noob52]

No hostility elmo, i just think that this particular idea blows. Surprised me a little, cause i usually agree with you.

[Elmo]

No hostility elmo, i just think that this particular idea blows. Surprised me a little, cause i usually agree with you.

If Doc or Culvercreek came at me and told me my idea blows, it's cool. They and I have had an on going friendly debate. While I may not agree with them, I feel their views are valid and I respect their opinions. It's when someone I have not had this discussion with just comes in and the first thing they said to me me was I sound like an ass kisser and that I can take my idea and shove it, took me by surprise as well.

The way I see it, something is going to happen. The cards are stacked against us. If something has to give, I rather it not be more bans or restrictions.

[Single_shot]

When I went to class for ACT235 here in PA (armed guard) at the local college,I had to jump through burning hoops to get it...big time. Psycho tests,physical tests and physical training by a State police officer,which means both mental, physical and classroom to be state certified with my weapon to state police certified.

Any Joe off the street can get a CC permit much easier in the state of Pa.but should need to go through what I did to be a security officer just to be a CC in the home.I think more correct training is desired.Training is critical,period. Not back yard ...ok I can hit the target crap,a back ground check and here you go.

[First-light]

I'm sorry, you're insane.....never going to happen

1st, you want to save babies, stop abortion

2nd, you want to stop violence, get the ILLEGALE drugs off the streets

you want me to give up my hunting rifles.... you go first

you want people to be responsible for there stolen guns....what if someone steals your car gets drunk and kills 4 or 5 people

with your attitude....you should not be allowed to own a gun

Hah, what the hell is this?

Edited December 23, 2012 by First-light

[noob52]

I would have been annoyed too. My mistake... Hopefully no hard feelings.

[wztirem]

Gun Control vs. Gun Rights | OpenSecrets

[Elmo]

I would have been annoyed too. My mistake... Hopefully no hard feelings.

Definitely no hard feeling. I over reacted.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

I say go ahead and make sure there are honest law abiding gun owners behind every trigger. I think everyone here has encountered someone that made them uncomfortable while around guns. Be it at the range, in line at the gun store, or just overheard them saying something stupid at the gas station. We've all walked away shaking our heads thinking "that guy shouldn't own a gun" at some point in our lives.

How many won't hunt with people they know because they are intellectually challenged or not responsible with firearms? Like old people behind the wheel of a car.

Training is key for responsible gun handling. The system is supposed to work in a manner where the good guys can actually do some good with their CC's. We let politicians put to much emphasis on the registration, not the training. This is why it's sometimes true that more guns are not always the answer.

What if all the people that went out and bought AR's last week were the dumbest guys in the neighborhood? How's that going to work out for the more guns argument?

Keep the registrations on the state level to ease the "government takeover" crowd and I think something could be supported. Let the feds honor all 50 states training programs and we have a start.

How would you guys feel about a volunteer police organization with TRAINED citizens on call for a crisis? We have volunteer fire dept. Don't we?

[Early]

Volunteer police organization.......Vigilante group, right? The heavily-armed, para-military police of today's America make enough mistakes....no sense adding to them.

To reiterate: A change I would like to see: Remove all weapons from the police that are not allowed to the general public.

[nyantler]

So I guess gun murders can be trivialized and explained by statistics.Tell that to the parents of the 20 children in CT!

It's no different than telling parents of children killed in auto accidents that we are going to continue making and selling automobiles... the truth is there has always been and will always be death and murder... while it is tragic and sad... it is the reality... I am not trivializing anything just stating the facts... picking and choosing which deaths are more important and should be dealt with first by taking away the freedoms of the people should be far more disturbing to you than just putting into perspective the actual chance of an innocent person being killed by a gun. You also probably didn't know and don't care that nearly as many children die in pool related accidents each year...do you want to be the one that tells those parents we are going to conitnue making more pools... seems to me that you and others choose to trivialize those childs deaths by inferring that other child deaths are more important and need to be dealt with first... again it is using ones heart to try and "rationize" something that can only be dealt with by using ones head. I can separate my "hearts" feeling of saddness for those that lost love ones in CT from my ability to still have rational thought about the reality of what can be done about it.

[Elmo]

The problem with volunteers is that there is very little accountability. I use to work with a lot of volunteers. If a worker showed up late for work, they got chewed out, and threaten with termination. If a volunteer showed up late for work, you couldn't legally do anything because you can't demand more "donations" from them.

[irish_redneck]

Rome NY has a volunteer police force , they even have police style cars marked VIPS (volunteers in police service)

http://www.romepd.com/listing.asp?orgId=33

edit : added link

Edited December 23, 2012 by irish_redneck

[hunterman7956]

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED whats so hard to understand ??

[First-light]

It's no different than telling parents of children killed in auto accidents that we are going to continue making and selling automobiles... the truth is there has always been and will always be death and murder... while it is tragic and sad... it is the reality... I am not trivializing anything just stating the facts... picking and choosing which deaths are more important and should be dealt with first by taking away the freedoms of the people should be far more disturbing to you than just putting into perspective the actual chance of an innocent person being killed by a gun. You also probably didn't know and don't care that nearly as many children die in pool related accidents each year...do you want to be the one that tells those parents we are going to conitnue making more pools... seems to me that you and others choose to trivialize those childs deaths by inferring that other child deaths are more important and need to be dealt with first... again it is using ones heart to try and "rationize" something that can only be dealt with by using ones head. I can separate my "hearts" feeling of saddness for those that lost love ones in CT from my ability to still have rational thought about the reality of what can be done about it.

Bad, bad equation stated here. Freedoms of the people, violet deaths, school age children die at the hands of a madman with a long gun, not a drowning in a pool or a car accident. I really just don't know how to comprehend how you can equate these types of shootings to an accidental drowning at some ones pool. I'm trying though..........

[nyantler]

Bad, bad equation stated here. Freedoms of the people, violet deaths, school age children die at the hands of a madman with a long gun, not a drowning in a pool or a car accident. I really just don't know how to comprehend how you can equate these types of shootings to an accidental drowning at some ones pool. I'm trying though..........

Does it really matter how a child dies? Seriously..?? The point is you cannot blame the instrument in one death and not blame the instrument in another if you are being logical. Why is one childs death worse than another? The point is... it isn't. Some of you act as if it matters to a parent how their child dies... the grief is no less anyway you slice it... stop the "look how compassionate I am cuz I jumped on the anti-gun bandwagon" routine and use your head and maybe you'll comprehend a little better what I said. Tell me how banning a .223 long gun will stop children from being killed at the hands of any madman that is hell bent on killing innocent children. You can't. All you can do is continue giving the impression that if you argue that it can.. that it will make you look like you feel more for the families than those of us that know banning any firearm can't stop a madman. Why is it so hard for people like you to be compassionate and be truthful about reality? I don't find it hard at all.

[cityboy]

I've considered hunting with an AR type rifle because my right eye can't take the recoil of a bolt, lever or pump gun. The jell in the back of the eye that hold the retina in place gets dislodged and it looks like rain falling. This doesn't happen with an AR. My wife thinks the AR is perfect size and power for her. The issue really is not hunting though. The 2nd Ammendment doesn't say anything about hunting. The 2nd Ammendment recognizes all citzens as members of the militia and as such the right to keep and bear arm to augment the regular Army, or to act when the gov't can't or won't act, or to defend yourself and your community if the Gov't ceases to exsist. You don't need a military rifle if the gov't is doing its job. You sure as heck will need one when they don't. I got my only standing ovation from a Manhattan Grand Jury for helping to stop a madman with a gun soon after I got out of the service in 81. The first cop I encountered and told about the guy with the gun said he couldn't help cause he was doing the bag(the dept mail). Right a uniformed NYPD in a marked car. The bad guy called me the day after I testified and described what he was going to do to my wife and kids while he made me watch. It didn't worry me then cause I wasn't married. But sure as heck, a coupleof years down the road he called me to congragulate me on the wedding. Several other calls over time what car she was driving or what she wore…. Told the cops and the DA and nobody cared. "Call us when you see him." I bought my first handgun.

[First-light]

Does it really matter how a child dies? Seriously..?? The point is you cannot blame the instrument in one death and not blame the instrument in another if you are being logical. Why is one childs death worse than another? The point is... it isn't. Some of you act as if it matters to a parent how their child dies... the grief is no less anyway you slice it... stop the "look how compassionate I am cuz I jumped on the anti-gun bandwagon" routine and use your head and maybe you'll comprehend a little better what I said. Tell me how banning a .223 long gun will stop children from being killed at the hands of any madman that is hell bent on killing innocent children. You can't. All you can do is continue giving the impression that if you argue that it can.. that it will make you look like you feel more for the families than those of us that know banning any firearm can't stop a madman. Why is it so hard for people like you to be compassionate and be truthful about reality? I don't find it hard at all.

Accidental pool drowning or a massive killing by a gun. can't blame the instrument????? Being logical??? grief is grief that is correct. No I'm not compassionate because I jumped on the anti gun bandwagon. I have always thought this way. It will make a difference if one person isn't killed after some type of negotiations take place and some new thinking comes about. You want to talk about compassion don't f-ing come down my street buddy!

[irish_redneck]

but what if one person IS killed when they couldn't protect themselves because their AR was confiscated? (just being devils advocate) The one person argument is not a good one, if so we should ban cars, beer, cigarettes, baseball bats , lighters, cheetos, swimming pools, pianos, kitchen knives, ice picks, hatchets, all medications, doctors, etc etc the list is endless

[Woodcock]

The problem with this entire mess is that many, many people are just as angry as we are about what happened. They want something done immediately and many aren't thinking logically. They are going to push for all sorts of changes to gun law and might very well succeed. While I personally don't see a reason to have 20-30 round magazines, I am not willing to throw it out there to the anti-gun forces as a concession. If you give them that, they'll want more.... it's really that simple. I'd go more for the sales/transfer laws and background check changes. I will not go for any restrictions that are meaningless. Remember, the anti-gun groups don't want any guns. I bird hunt with a 20ga over/under; I don't particularly like semi-automatic shotguns with six loaded rounds hunting near me, but I wouldn't want to ban them. That's that person's choice. The truth is that you could saw off a barrel on a pump/semi-automatic shotgun, fabricate a pistol grip, load it with 00 buck with spare rounds in your pockets and be as dangerous as this mad man was. If that was the method used you don't think people would have wanted to ban semi-automatic and pump shotguns?? We need to stick together and be very careful what we agree to. Look at what happened in Australia with their gun laws. Do you really think that couldn't happen here???

Edited December 24, 2012 by Woodcock