Saratoga County Sheriff's Deputies Union letter

[Salmon_Run]

http://www.saratogia...87952348056.txt

Please take the time and read the article and attached letter from the union.

It is informative and well crafted.....We all need to stand shoulder to shoulder with this legal battle ahead. We may have slight individual views, but our rights as sportsmen, and free citizens are under attack.

Feel free to share this on any other site you feel will get the word out there.......

Edited January 30, 2013 by Salmon_Run

[josephmrtn]

SWEET!!!!! This is going how i was hoping it would

[adkbuck]

Good Letter, Thanks for posting!

[erussell]

Id like to be the fly on a wall where this conversation go's down. Officer jack we just got a report that someone who has bought an "assult rifle" just got a shipment in the mail of 4000 rounds of ammo and 20 new high cap mags. need to go check it out. Ha right you go check it out and bring the swat team. : )

[dbHunterNY]

saw that. i commend them for taking action when it's easy to sit around and simply complain.

[Salmon_Run]

http://m.saratogian.com/saratogian/db_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=TTz6INXD&full=true#display

[josephmrtn]

Id like to be the fly on a wall where this conversation go's down. Officer jack we just got a report that someone who has bought an "assult rifle" just got a shipment in the mail of 4000 rounds of ammo and 20 new high cap mags. need to go check it out. Ha right you go check it out and bring the swat team. : )

i would refuse to go check it out... my life is more important than my job

[13BVET]

The sheriff are nothing but turncoats. The letter is effectively pointless, as the sheriff intends to enforce the law anyway. Welcome to the police state! So much for their oath!

Edited January 31, 2013 by 13BVET

[Salmon_Run]

The sheriff are nothing but turncoats. The letter is effectively pointless, as the sheriff intends to enforce the law anyway. Welcome to the police state! So much for their oath!

I am not sure how you came about that belief; I guess you have spoken to the Sheriff personally ???

There is also a similar letter created by the New York Sheriff's Asociation that was sent to the "elected officials".....

Edited January 31, 2013 by Salmon_Run

[13BVET]

I am not sure how you came about that belief; I guess you have spoken to the Sheriff personally ???

There is also a similar letter created by the New York Sheriff's Asociation that was sent to the "elected officials".....

Times Union, article that was in there today. I'll get the link.

[13BVET]

Here ya go. Traitorous bastards!

http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Police-union-letter-raps-new-gun-laws-4237115.php

[jjb4900]

I would compare it to a soldier in the military who is ordered to bomb a village that he knows will also result in the loss of innocent lives............he may feel it's wrong, but the orders come from above and he either does what he's sworn to do or he faces consequences.

[13BVET]

Interesting concept, but wrong. Unlike "law enforcement", a soldier is held to the standards of the Geneva Convention, and "War Crimes". A prime example is the marine in Fallujah, who shot an insurgent, when the insurgent reached behind his back. This guy went through hell to clear his name. If the government tells the military to go out and shoot gun owners, does it make it right?

We have minds of our own, and we know what's wrong and right. A soldier HAS THE RIGHT to disobey an unlawful, or unconstitutional order. Being a vet, I know the rules.

[jjb4900]

Interesting concept, but wrong. Unlike "law enforcement", a soldier is held to the standards of the Geneva Convention, and "War Crimes". A prime example is the marine in Fallujah, who shot an insurgent, when the insurgent reached behind his back. This guy went through hell to clear his name. If the government tells the military to go out and shoot gun owners, does it make it right?

We have minds of our own, and we know what's wrong and right. A soldier HAS THE RIGHT to disobey an unlawful, or unconstitutional order. Being a vet, I know the rules.

I'm sure it's more complicated than I put it, but would you really expect the cop on the street to take a stand and lose his job?

[13BVET]

There were guardsmen down in La. after Katrina that stood their ground, and refused to confiscate the citizens guns, and they're still in. It can easily be contested.

[Doc]

Well folks, here's the deal. Last time I knew, the constitutionality of a law is not determined by Sheriff's Associations, or the Sheriff's Departments, or the individual sheriffs and deputies. So they may have an opinion, but until the law is officially judged as being unconstitutional by the appropriate level of the Justice, they still have a duty to uphold the law as it appears on the books. They have one other option and that is to quit the force, and it may be asking just a bit much to ask that of them. You people can threaten what ever you want, armed stand-offs, or shooting every LEO that shows up at your door, or wall up any illegal guns in the walls of your house, or insisting that law enforcement officers willingly give up their livlihoods, but the absolute only sane and rational answer available to us is to abide by the laws, and fight this law in the courts and support those organizations with the resources to offer up court challenges.

[Salmon_Run]

Well guys, thank you for taking note of the letter and the intent it was crafted within.

Sorry that this topic has taken a turn off coarse.......I am just going to let this rest now....

A big thank you DOC !!!!!!

You have clearly gotten the point and we need to solidify our stand, but as such we have all have differing employment/personal limits.....

Edited January 31, 2013 by Salmon_Run

[jjb4900]

I doubt the average person has the time, finances or balls to make a one man stand and take whatever consequences falls upon them for doing so.......and I don't think anyone should be faulted for not doing so.

Edited January 31, 2013 by jjb4900

[13BVET]

Well folks, here's the deal. Last time I knew, the constitutionality of a law is not determined by Sheriff's Associations, or the Sheriff's Departments, or the individual sheriffs and deputies. So they may have an opinion, but until the law is officially judged as being unconstitutional by the appropriate level of the Justice, they still have a duty to uphold the law as it appears on the books. They have one other option and that is to quit the force, and it may be asking just a bit much to ask that of them. You people can threaten what ever you want, armed stand-offs, or shooting every LEO that shows up at your door, or wall up any illegal guns in the walls of your house, or insisting that law enforcement officers willingly give up their livlihoods, but the absolute only sane and rational answer available to us is to abide by the laws, and fight this law in the courts and support those organizations with the resources to offer up court challenges.

Who's suggesting shooting anyone? What exactly are you talking about?! If you're not willing to stand on your principles, then you deserve what you get. Quite frankly, if a law was passed that said you had to give up your first born, is that alright also?

We had an expression for those that betrayed common ground in the Army-they were called "buddy f******". F'ing your buddy was not tolerated, and quite frankly, tended to lead to backlashes.

I was sworn to uphold the oath to the Constitution, and I still do that today. However, I never suggested shooting anyone. I DO believe there may very well come a day that there may very well be an uprising, but that will remain to be seen. Who knows? My thing is, that I despise people who say one thing, and do another. They could very well have stated to begin with, that they intended to enforce the law anyway. They did not do that. I can't tolerate liars, and I despise cowards, plain and simple.

[Doc]

Who's suggesting shooting anyone? What exactly are you talking about?! If you're not willing to stand on your principles, then you deserve what you get. Quite frankly, if a law was passed that said you had to give up your first born, is that alright also?

We had an expression for those that betrayed common ground in the Army-they were called "buddy f******". F'ing your buddy was not tolerated, and quite frankly, tended to lead to backlashes.

I was sworn to uphold the oath to the Constitution, and I still do that today. However, I never suggested shooting anyone. I DO believe there may very well come a day that there may very well be an uprising, but that will remain to be seen. Who knows? My thing is, that I despise people who say one thing, and do another. They could very well have stated to begin with, that they intended to enforce the law anyway. They did not do that. I can't tolerate liars, and I despise cowards, plain and simple.

What I was getting at is those who insist on blatently resisting the registration law will eventually reach a point of confrontation where they either will back down and give up their gun, or they will have to shoot those that come to take it (that's exactly what I am talking about). Because sure as hell the cops are not going to say, "Ok, as long as I see you are serious about keeping an illegal gun, I guess we'll make this one exception". It's very obvious that you will give in or escalate to some unacceptable level, meaning eliminating the source of confrontation. So obviously someone who is serious about never registering their gun and those who vow that they will under no circumstance do so, basically are saying that they are willing to accept the ultimate outcome of that choice. I am simply pointing out exactly what that outcome can lead to. I also pointed out another potential outcome involved with resisting compliance with the law which is jail time, and a loss of all guns due to a felony conviction.

Also, please do not ignore the fact that as I pointed out, establishing constitutionality of law is for judges..... not law enforcement or individuals in the armed forces. I don't think too many of us are schooled in constitutional law. The constitutionality of this new law has not yet been ruled on. I understand that "tough talk" sounds good until you get to a point where it becomes you against the law. But in reality, none of it means anything until you reach that point and have to actually act on your decisions.

[adkbuck]

Regarding ignoring the law and keeping an illegal gun without registering: This came up last night at the LaFayette meeting. The fellow that was the state police legal counsel responded. I think his name was Steve Hogan He gave a hypothetical example. He said "lets say you are stopped by the state police for speeding and there is AR type rifle hanging in your trucks gun rack and it is unregistered and you say you were unaware of the law". He said you would be given 30 days to comply with the law. If you didn't register the gun then you would be charged wirth either a class "D" or "class "E" felony. He said if you were found guilty by the judge you would have all you guns conficated in addition to having to pay a fine and/or do jail time. He said that that all people with registered weapons will be given a wallet sized voucher card.

Another question came up as to how do you prove ownership at the time of the initial registration period. One of the three guys said you would have to show a reciept but the one of the other guys said at the time of the initial registation that a formal reciept would not be required.

Edited January 31, 2013 by adkbuck

[Doc]

Yeah, I kind of figured it would be some kind of felony. And of course with a felony goes the legal right to possess firearms. This is an important point to bring out for those that are considering ignoring the new law. It can wind up being pretty darn expensive, not to mention ruining your life with the jail stuff, fines and record.