Idea For Antler Restriction

[nybuckboy]

I have a chiropractor friend that wrote to the DEC about his thoughts onNY bow season and antler restriction.

Southern Tier:

A) First he suggested a longer bow season... say Sept 15 thru the Fri before gun season opens.

Everyone can take one buck and one doe per season which includes the entire deer season (bow, gun, muzzle).

C) His thoughts are this: the doe fulfills the venison fix for meat hunters and it may make others seeking a buck to pass on the smaller bucks w/o placing a size limit on it, like "outside the ears" or "at least 3 points on one side".

I think this make some sense and it eliminates doe permits. Your thoughts?

[Fairgame]

One buck for the entire deer season is fine but one doe is sometimes not enough in some areas.  The deer habitat would get destroyed in a couple of years due to overpopulation.  Dmps will always have to be in place just to keep control. Longer season, I dont think its needed we already have a long season.

[wztirem]

In many parts of the State the Deer habitat has already been impacted by the overpopulation of deer. Increased opportunities and longer seasons are the DEC's way of maximizing population control to offset the loss of hunters and to preserve habitat (I hope)

[fasteddie]

There would be an overpopulation of deer as well as more deer / vehicle accidents . More and more of the deer's domain is being lost to housing tracts . The suggestion / proprosal would get sha-zit canned !

[Doc]

Ok, I agree that the doe part of that proposal needs to go, but the idea of a one buck per season might have some merit. Hunters would tend to make it a "good one", hence the defacto AR. And yet if a person hunted in an area where the population was quite low, or some other circumstance made a harvest unlikely, the ability to take whatever is available would still exist. What would be the down-side to that? Is there a down-side?

Doc

[nybuckboy]

That is my thought as well. It would definitely make a hunter consider a better buck when possible. Maybe we should still have a DM permit issued in some areas as well.

[Doc]

That is my thought as well. It would definitely make a hunter consider a better buck when possible. Maybe we should still have a DM permit issued in some areas as well.

Oh, you've got to have the DMP system for sure or this state would be in one hell of a mess. But the limit of one buck per season is something I still haven't found a down-side to.

Doc

[Chevy]

What if I get my buck on 10/16 but no DMP. I would not be able to participate in the regular season. One buck for archery and one for regular season works fine in my opinion. 

[wztirem]

I also agree, one and done unless you possess a DMP.

[dszymo]

One buck for the entire deer season is fine but one doe is sometimes not enough in some areas.  The deer habitat would get destroyed in a couple of years due to overpopulation.  Dmps will always have to be in place just to keep control. Longer season, I dont think its needed we already have a long season.

We have one of the shortest bow seasons in the country.

[wztirem]

One buck for the entire deer season is fine but one doe is sometimes not enough in some areas.  The deer habitat would get destroyed in a couple of years due to overpopulation.  Dmps will always have to be in place just to keep control. Longer season, I don't think its needed we already have a long season.

We have one of the shortest bow seasons in the country.

The DEC depends upon gun hunters to kill the overwhelming majority of the deer to fulfill their management purposes. I would be in favor of opening up the archery season a week earlier, but would it make that much of difference. Perhaps, it may be considered as a response to fewer hunters afield, but I think crossbows would be legalized first to account for any shortfalls in the deer kill goals.

[Doc]

The DEC depends upon gun hunters to kill the overwhelming majority of the deer to fulfill their management purposes. I would be in favor of opening up the archery season a week earlier, but would it make that much of difference. Perhaps, it may be considered as a response to fewer hunters afield, but I think crossbows would be legalized first to account for any shortfalls in the deer kill goals.

I don't think it is too much of a stretch to imagine hunter numbers declining to the point where the DEC is forced to cut bowhunting seasons and extend gun seasons, or modify bow seasons to include some more effective weapons such as crossbows and muzzleloaders. I don't see any of that happening in my lifetime, but somewhere off in the future I believe things will be moving in that direction. I think the DEC is somewhat less than impressed by the effectiveness of the bow as a herd management implement, and that seems to be their primary concern these days. Perhaps they are extending a view out in the future and are looking for alternatives to better thin herds when the time comes that hunters are not able to keep up.

At any rate, I think that proposals that tend to hamper their ability to quickly shrink herds are probably not looked on favorably. Maybe that is one reason that they are not interested in any management changes that tend to set aside the harvests of any deer, even bucks.

Doc

[wztirem]

The wort case scenario may possibly be an issuance of an inordinate number of DMP's to control the deer population in certain DMU's to offset the loss of hunters. It may work in select DMU's but out here in Suffolk County and in urbanized areas where deer are overabundant it is a dismal failure.

[Doc]

The wort case scenario may possibly be an issuance of an inordinate number of DMP's to control the deer population in certain DMU's to offset the loss of hunters. It may work in select DMU's but out here in Suffolk County and in urbanized areas where deer are overabundant it is a dismal failure.

Well, that's a question that's been rolling around in my head regarding that end of the spectrum as far as issuing gobs of DMPs, and I really don't know the answer. Is there some upper limit where the DEC can offer all the DMPs that they want and at some point have difficulty getting rid of them all or getting hunters to fill them if they have been issued. Somewhere, I saw the percent success ratio on DMPs and it struck me as being ridiculously low. So it makes me wonder if there isn't a point where bulk numbers of permits simply top out and either are not taken or not filled. For that matter, does anyone know if all the permits are issued even at the existing rate allowed now. On that question, I would avoid factoring in the $10. I think if they were up against the wall trying to control a runaway population, that fee would quickly go by the wayside. But just how many deer does the average hunter kill and consume, and how many would they if there was no limit? I think we might be surprised at how low that number may be.

Doc

[fasteddie]

I only know 2 deer hunters that would consume more than 2 deer a season . I get more than 2 permits and have done the Deer Donation a few times . I just hope that the venison is actually going to "the needy" !

[Culvercreek hunt club]

DOn't count out an earn as you go program either. I know some states you have to earn you buck tag by filling doe tags. I know those states have crazy deer takes though but it is an option that could work. At least some areas of SC the limit is one deer per DAY!!

[Doc]

The earn-a-buck (EAB) idea. Now there is another wonderful idea. That one is worse than AR.....lol. If I could guarantee that the buck of a lifetime would wait his turn and not show up until after I had fulfilled my EAB duties, that would be ok. But you just know that's not the way it would happen. EAB is a program designed to force hunters to harvest does. You can't take a buck until you have taken an antlerless deer first. But once that buck goes by, he's gone. And if you're stuck still waiting for a doe to shoot ........ too bad ..... that opportunity is gone and it may very well be the only one you will have.

You want to see "brown & down" mentality, EAB is the way to have it. Doe, fawn, button buck, who cares just get that antlerless deer tagged quick so you can shoot a buck if one comes along.

What is happening? We have more darn people sitting around with apparently nothing to do but conjure up ideas to frustrate hunters right out of the sport. Things are really going nuts these days. :

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I wasn't saying to implement it here...those places that us it have crazy long seasons and multiple buck takes....the get a buck tag and doe tag.....cna't get a second buck until they take so amny doe. Fae it if the limit is a deer a day they just want number down. of course soem of those areas still run them with dogs and use buckshot too.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Sorry for the typos guys...I am on my useless touch screen phone

[Doc]

I wasn't saying to implement it here...those places that us it have crazy long seasons and multiple buck takes....the get a buck tag and doe tag.....cna't get a second buck until they take so amny doe. Fae it if the limit is a deer a day they just want number down. of course soem of those areas still run them with dogs and use buckshot too.

Wait a minute..... you're talking about the second buck???? That's a different story. Most of the EAB proposals that I have heard regarded the first buck. Now that's a whole different thing, and I would view that one a bit more favorably. No I would view that a lot more favorably.

Doc

[Doc]

Sorry for the typos guys...I am on my useless touch screen phone

I was able to put it together. See .... all these fancy gadgets are still limited by the size of the human finger ..... ha-ha

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Yes I was talking about a second....just because I do know guys that apply for DMP's and have NO intention of filling them. They just don't want others to get them. THey think the herd count is downa and they shouldn't be issued. And let's face it.....probably quite a few like them are probably filling the wife's tags anyway . Just offering a possibility to up the doe count in the context of the conversation about falling hunting numbers and such.

[Doc]

I'm thinking that the problem that the state has with getting hunters to shoot does might be partially due to the fact that a good many hunters/families really don't care all that much for venison. I know there are other factors involved like the old holdover attitudes against shooting does from the old days when it was necessary to build herds. Also, like you say there are a lot of armchair managers who simply want to get those permits out of circulation because of what they perceive as DEC overkill on the herd (by the way, a lot of times they aren't all that wrong). Your version of EAB could be used to thwart some of those attitudes and get hunters shooting those does just on the outside chance that they might have an opportunity at a second buck.

[wztirem]

Doc,

At the rate hunters are leaving the sport in NY, in the future one can expect the DEC to increase bag limits to control the deer population.

[Doc]

Doc,

At the rate hunters are leaving the sport in NY, in the future one can expect the DEC to increase bag limits to control the deer population.

One of the interesting things is that it appears that hunters may actually be getting more efficient at harvesting deer even as their numbers decrease. I think today's hunter is better informed and equipped to do the population control activity much better than in the past. And also, the DEC has the freedom to revise season lengths and equipment content to make a smaller force more effective. So there has been, and could be, a lot of things to make the decrease in hunters transparent to the harvest.......for a while. So it all depends on how far and how fast the decrease in hunters continues as to just when they might have to resort to increasing bag limits.

My thought is that increased bag limits will only be marginally effective. Of course it needs to be proven, but I have the feeling that hunters already have limits on how many deer they can actually consume. Frankly, I am down to one deer per year and then I have to give away any additional animals. We just do not eat any more than that anymore. I'm sure others have some limit that they have set. So perhaps allowing each hunter to take a half dozen or so deer might not have the impact that one might think.

Doc