Where do you buy?

[Five Seasons]

What are some good stores to buy seed? Corn, clover and what not? There is a tractor supply, country max, hd, lowes and a dicks near me. Or am I better off ordering online? I'm in Wayne County.

[phade]

If you are small volume (ie a few pounds), Country Max often times has decent clover seed. Looks up a nearby agway store...they have a search engine.

 

One thing you can do is check walmart.com - sure they sell buck on a bag, but sometimes they have cheaper prices than competitors and you can have it shipped to your store. I picked up the brassica/turnip and radish mix for $10 when all said and done and it'll do a 1/4 acre plot just fine. Local places for radish were a bit high and when you add in drive time/gas...it was cheaper to go the WM route.

 

Online is good for some things, but shipping often kills small purchases. Welter is usually a go-to.

[Five Seasons]

i also wondering if the name brand stuff like biologic is worth it. I think I want to start with a small plot of clover for turkey and deer. Maybe some corn but not as sold. I really need to feel the planting thing out before I do more plots and variety.

[Gthphtm]

Go to a feed and grain store, might cost a little more but you will get just seed not seed and fillers.

[phade]

For small time purchases...gas and shipping costs make the economics for you. You can get Landino and various clovers at Country Max in Palmyra or Macedon (I think that is where it is there). It's legit seed. Just ask for it...I have bought there before.

 

Let me add too, that if this is your first real plot, you may want to look at a good quality, easy to grow annual of sorts. Clover isn't the hardest to grow, but it's also a bit slower to become that "lush green plot of hunters' dreams" if you can understand. I prefer fall planting clover and also some light frost seeding of it. Not saying you cannot do it, but spring planting of clover isn't going to always look pretty the first year, but it really shines in that following year. Some new plotters can be discouraged by that and till it under, etc.

 

I support first time plotters doing something that will grow and look great as a confidence builder. Clover is not a bad choice, but also not the easiest to grow/succeed with right off the bat with immediate results.

Edited April 5, 2013 by phade

[Dom]

You can try going to local grain/feed store and try mixing your own.Also some have used whole corn from feed stores,I try to use the less expensive way first.I have used a mix of bird seed and seem to work out.

[Five Seasons]

thanks for the advice guys. Phade, all the videos and articles I've read recommend clover in the spring for the north. I do not have high expectations, just looking for a project to get me outside and busy. I'm hoping to suck in some turkeys as well. If it's not great the first year, that's fine. You have to start somewhere right? My main focus this year is the already established apple orchard.

 

any other advice on easy to grow annuals is welcome.

[phade]

Spring planting of clover has quite a few pitfalls. The benefit to fall planting is that is give clover time to grow roots better with less weed competition inconjunction with a cover/nurse crop...making it more able to compete in the following spring. Most people who have plotted often turn to fall planting of clover...check out the QDMA's plotting forum. You'll find info about Lick Creek's mix...which is literally a road map if you have the time, willing to part with the seed cost, and the equipment.

 

Spring planting is just a headache compared to fall planting. But, the people in the videos know it all, soooooooo..............

 

Brassica and radish are pretty easy to grow...as are those documented in the link below.

 

You also didn't mention your soil test results?

 

Read this thread...worth nearly every second to shorten the learning curve...

 

http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25851&highlight=lick+creek

Edited April 5, 2013 by phade

[fasteddie]

Try Tractor Supply also .........

[growalot]

If you really want to go with a spring planting of clover...and your soils is still a bit acidic try a good annual red clover...the critters will like it and it will give you added nitrogen...... if you want to then go with a fall planting of ladino  with a cover crop of WW or WR you'll have the nitrogen needed for the grain crop ....and then you can add more lime at that time as well and use less fertilizer

 

(typing)

Edited April 5, 2013 by growalot

[growalot]

dbl post again

Edited April 5, 2013 by growalot

[growalot]

PS...I bought this on a spur..it was on sale and I pointed out they marked it wrong so more off...and basically free...awards points..ANY WHO....You won't see me do this often...It is GREAT....fall planting ...fast!...then it came up really well in spring...I disced it with out spraying for fall oats...came in even better!...still growing now...but I'm spraying it down to plant plant      http://www.tecomate.com/content/index.php/site/comments/tecomate_seed_max_attract

 

 

[WesternNY]

I am not trying to disagree with the weed issue with clover planted in the spring, but I have had great success first spring planted clover.  Here are 2 plots planted in April 2012, pictures from 2012

I prefer predictable rain,  I seed my clover heavy,  Both plots mowed once, and I sprayed cleth on the one with the deer in the picture once to control some grass problem I had.

[Five Seasons]

Spring planting of clover has quite a few pitfalls. The benefit to fall planting is that is give clover time to grow roots better with less weed competition inconjunction with a cover/nurse crop...making it more able to compete in the following spring. Most people who have plotted often turn to fall planting of clover...check out the QDMA's plotting forum. You'll find info about Lick Creek's mix...which is literally a road map if you have the time, willing to part with the seed cost, and the equipment.

 

Spring planting is just a headache compared to fall planting. But, the people in the videos know it all, soooooooo..............

 

Brassica and radish are pretty easy to grow...as are those documented in the link below.

 

You also didn't mention your soil test results?

 

Read this thread...worth nearly every second to shorten the learning curve...

 

http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25851&highlight=lick+creek

 

I never said people in videos know it all. I've read a few articles and even the manufacturers recommends spring. It doesn't mean they're right, but I don't think I deserve to get an eye rolling comment. See clover plus: http://www.plantbiologic.com/images/document/plantingguide.pdf

 

I went and planted a clover chicory mix on Saturday http://store.evolved.com/home/products/harvest/perennials/provide.aspx  Little bummed we didn't get the Sunday rain. I put down some lime, 15-15-15 and the clover. In all it cost me about $40 and some time outdoors. If it doesn't take, I'm not going to lose sleep. It was only a 60x20 plot. In hindsigt I think I should have killed off the grass and weeds with some roundup first. I might do this on a side patch.

 

I'm not a pro. I'm a beginner. This is my trial. I'm not going to get into soil tests and what not until I've decided food plots will be beneficial for me. I have a dozen apple trees and a few hickory trees in the same area. To make an analogy: I want to make sure biking is for me so I buy a middle of the road $500 bike before spending a few grand on something that collects dust. I'm not trying to sound defensive, but keep in mind this is just a trial experience on a small piece of property. It's not that I'm trying to do it wrong, but there is "good enough" and then there is "perfection"

[Five Seasons]

I am not trying to disagree with the weed issue with clover planted in the spring, but I have had great success first spring planted clover.  Here are 2 plots planted in April 2012, pictures from 2012

I prefer predictable rain,  I seed my clover heavy,  Both plots mowed once, and I sprayed cleth on the one with the deer in the picture once to control some grass problem I had.

 

those look great. My plot's about a quarter of that size to start with potential to clear and expand to around that size. What is cleth? I'm wondering about what to spray to control weeds but not the clover and when is it ok to spray?

[Fantail]

Can't wait to get up to camp this weekend & check on plots & jazz. Clover should be starting soon, unfortunately will probably have to chew it all up after Turkey season due to a mistake I made 2-3 years ago and added a mix with rye. 

Which brings me to where I go for seed.

Tractor Supply tends to carry 'Plot Spike'. Ok, well check the mix label, make sure it doesn't contain that feel good rye. Same goes for most of that toss & turn - throw and grow - what ever. Alot of mixes at basspro have the same jazz. So, for the amount of seed I use I usually get from Gander. I really don't like the store, but they usually stock Anterking clover mix or WTI and Tecomate. For brand - not bulk seed I've had good results with them.

[phade]

Not doing a soil test is just plain crazy imo. Western is also experienced in plotting and has the equipment and knowledge and it's not his first rodeo. Compare his equipment $$$ investment and prep list vs. what you have available and that changes things I suspect.

 

Sure, you aren't a pro, there's nothing wrong with it. I just don't get how you can do the "research" and then not do a soil sample. Did you do ANYTHING to get seed to soil contact? You limed with no sample? How did you know what amount to lime? To me, it just sounds like you want someone who agrees with you to offer advice from here on out, so best of luck.

 

In parting, fall planting of clover is better imo as it offers you better odds long-term in your situation. I've given you beginner advice. You need all the help you can get and fall planting provides more of it.

Edited April 8, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

like I said, it's $40. If it works great not a lot of time or excessive effort. I cleared some brush that I planned on doing anyhow. Most of the area was already exposed and had been mowed grass/weeds by the previous owner. I tilled it up and limed/fertilized and seeded. If it fails I'm out a little bit of money and some time that I feel was well spent even if it doesn't grow. Perhaps it's best to add that this is 5 acre plot with one stand. The deer are sucked into my stand by the apples and hickory. I thought this might help. I hunt the stand a few times a year when i just want to walk out my backporch. Generally I hunt my parents and grandparents hundreds of acres. I guess what I'm trying to say in a very long winded way is that this isn't my prime stomping grounds. It's "play" property. Had I set out to do some plots even a 1/4 or 1/2 acre in size with some nice expensive equipment I certainly would not be going at it so 1/2 assed. My tools included: chain saw, trimmer with brush cutter and cultivator attachments, garden and leaf rake, pruners, wheel barrow, lawn mower and a playlist of all eric church, luke bryan and jason aldean albums on shuffle.

 

maybe this will help:

 

staring out

 

facing north

east

south

finished before tilling

 

north

east

south

[phade]

I don't think you are getting what I am saying, and that is A-OK. Hopefully it works out for you. I don't want to pass along any additional opinion because what's done is done at this point. I just want you to understand context - the advice I gave you was for beginning, gaining knowledge, not throwing money away, and getting a "good enough" plot and not a perfect one (such as with Western's equipment, money, time, and experience).

 

As an FYI - you can keep your eye on this thread on the QDMA forum's Food Plot section - pretty much the more knowledgeable "collective group" given plotting in today's world.

 

http://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56154

 

As it stands, the poll shows this:

 

 

View Poll Results: Spring or Fall planting of Clover in NY on new plot This poll will close on 04-11-2013 at 10:29 AM Spring 1 7.69% Fall 12 92.31%

 

 

That's 12 to 1 in favor of fall planting.

Edited April 8, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

wow 13 votes. seems legit (especially with one from Virginia where Fall is recommended by the manufacturers). But honestly, I will keep doing my research and hope to get more into this. I do honestly appreciate the advice and with anything, you learn along the way. Took me 4 hours to do my first brake job years ago. I did my wife's front rotors and pads in under 90 on Sunday. Learn tips, tricks and acquire tools along the way. There's only so much knowledge you can gain from reading on the web right?

Edited April 8, 2013 by Belo

[phade]

wow 13 votes. seems legit (especially with one from Virginia where Fall is recommended by the manufacturers). But honestly, I will keep doing my research and hope to get more into this. I do honestly appreciate the advice and with anything, you learn along the way. Took me 4 hours to do my first brake job years ago. I did my wife's front rotors and pads in under 90 on Sunday. Learn tips, tricks and acquire tools along the way. There's only so much knowledge you can gain from reading on the web right?

 

 

Wow, surprised this coming from you based on your posts. Pretty shoddy thinking, but again, best of luck.

 

BTW, that poll is only two hours old...it's up to 19-1 now. Not like that forum isn't the pre-eminant food plotting forum on the internet or anything, lol. Those posters that did choose to post aren't amatuers either by comparison. The location of the plot is revealed in the thread...they know its in NY.

Edited April 8, 2013 by phade

[WesternNY]

I do agree that Fall planting for clover, in a mix of annuals to get it started is the best.

 

I do have alot of experience and equipment, and I am willing to try to share my knowlegde and help anyone.

 

We are having a Habitat Field Day on Saturday June 29, 2013, details will be shared once we get past the Banquet on this Saturday.   The Rochester QDMA Branch is making education outreach, wounded vets, youth, and Gun rights our focus.

 

There are mulitple ways to skin a cat, and the best way to learn is through gaining hand on experience and making mistakes.

 

For any foot plot the critical things is seed to soil contact, especially small seeds like clover, brassica.

 

If you have a nice smooth seed bed then seed on top and then roll with a cultipacker or even a lawn roller it will help germination.  Clover tolerates over seeding... brassicas DO NOT.

Cleth    http://www.keystonepestsolutions.com/arrow-2ec-herbicide-1-gallon-select-2ec-26-4-clethodim-115.html

 

Spray when the grasses are an issue, and growing, DO NOT mow for grass problem it makes it worse.  Also spray any product by following the label, the label is the law.  They also do better when temps are over 60.

 

You need to use surfactant or crop oil with cleth.... it is pretty cheap.

 

 

[WesternNY]

I also use biologic for my soil samples... it is cheap and they email the results in 2-3 days... it is a basic test, but it is fine for the average weekend warrior. 

 

Happy Plotting!

[phade]

Talk him into a soil sample, too, while you are at it, since he listens to you. Ha.

[phade]

I also use biologic for my soil samples... it is cheap and they email the results in 2-3 days... it is a basic test, but it is fine for the average weekend warrior. 

 

Happy Plotting!

Nice...posting on the same topic at the same time!

 

Biologic is good and reliable. Belo can also drop it off in Newark at Cornell's extension, too, if he is close by.