If You're Against Crossbows During Archery

[covert]

I think I understand your concerns regarding the "humane" thing better now after reading it again and the further explanation.  I interpereted it differently at first.

 

My issue isn't with the equipment currently allowed, it's with some of the people using it.  I feel that since there seems to be no surefire way to encourage, goad or force them to put in the time and effort to become proficient with the vertical bow, why not legalize a currently available form of (what I believe to be) archery tackle that is commensurate with their drive and abilities?

[jjb4900]

I bet firearms account for more wounded and lost deer, then all forms of Archery weapons combined.......as well as the amount of irresponsible shots taken.

[covert]

Could be, since I believe the numbers of gun hunters are higher aren't they?  The problem is that a lot of times the poorly arrowed deer are more visible.

[WNYBuckHunter]

My issue isn't with the equipment currently allowed, it's with some of the people using it. I feel that since there seems to be no surefire way to encourage, goad or force them to put in the time and effort to become proficient with the vertical bow, why not legalize a currently available form of (what I believe to be) archery tackle that is commensurate with their drive and abilities?

Bingo. It has nothing to do with the weapon, its the ding dong that doesnt practice and put in the effort they should.

[Doc]

I think I understand your concerns regarding the "humane" thing better now after reading it again and the further explanation.  I interpereted it differently at first.

 

My issue isn't with the equipment currently allowed, it's with some of the people using it.  I feel that since there seems to be no surefire way to encourage, goad or force them to put in the time and effort to become proficient with the vertical bow, why not legalize a currently available form of (what I believe to be) archery tackle that is commensurate with their drive and abilities?

I'm sure that when they originally created a bow season, there had to have been a recognition that a bow while lethal enough to kill a deer, is also a weapon that has strong risks of wounding loses. Even those that practice religiously run the risk of not having the results go the way they want. So, if we want to fool-proof the results with equipment improvements, where do we draw the line. Why go half-way with it. If we are really concerned that some deer will be wounded and we think that an improvement of the weapon used is the cure ..... well, you know where that leads.

 

The other thing when you are thinking about the implementation of crossbows to alleviate irresponsible use of bow season weapons is the fact that there are no guarantees that a lot of new crossbow hunters won't be overestimating the capabilities of the crossbow. It is just possible that with all the advantages that we are hoping will promote cleaner kills, newbies may be just good enough to be dangerous. You know what I mean ... just good enough to get the bolt into the animal somewhere rather than the clean miss that is more typical of a beginning or unpracticed bow hunter. One of the appeals of the crossbow is the notion that you can jump into bow season without all that pain-in-the-neck practicing and development of skills. How many deer will these people go through before they realize that even the wonder-crossbow has some practice required even if only to understand the limitations. What I am saying is that irresponsible hunters will be irresponsible regardless of the weapon.

[A Sportsman]

I think that irresponsibility manifests itself mostly in long range shots and shots through cover and also shots at deer that are not in the broadside or quart away position. And none of these errors get fixed by the technology itself.

[Five Seasons]

Unsubstantiated?  I have had deer in my fields with arrows in them.  My neighbor has pictures of one of them last winter with an arrow sticking out of him.  I have helped cut up deer with broadheads in them.

 

I haven't seen any argument that could be construed as saying that vertical bows aren't humane?  Is a compound not a more advanced weapon than a traditional bow?  Why do people use them?  Because they are easier to shoot accurately, giving the user a better chance to get a clean "humane" kill.  By allowing more advanced compound bows does that somehow imply that recurves and longbows are less humane?

 

I think easier to shoot and more humane etc. is an interesting topic when we look at recurve, compound, and crossbows. Any hunter can be just as profficient with a recurve as another hunter is with a crossbow to some extent. What it comes down to is practice and dedication. And someone who puts in hours and hours with a recurve will probably truly appreciate their buck more than the 12 year old who just got his crossbow for Christmas. i believe with this time and dedication to practice, they gain a better appreciation for what we all consider to be "hunting" and not "killing" of deer.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

The other thing when you are thinking about the implementation of crossbows to alleviate irresponsible use of bow season weapons is the fact that there are no guarantees that a lot of new crossbow hunters won't be overestimating the capabilities of the crossbow. It is just possible that with all the advantages that we are hoping will promote cleaner kills, newbies may be just good enough to be dangerous. You know what I mean ... just good enough to get the bolt into the animal somewhere rather than the clean miss that is more typical of a beginning or unpracticed bow hunter. One of the appeals of the crossbow is the notion that you can jump into bow season without all that pain-in-the-neck practicing and development of skills. How many deer will these people go through before they realize that even the wonder-crossbow has some practice required even if only to understand the limitations. What I am saying is that irresponsible hunters will be irresponsible regardless of the weapon.

 

very much agree

[BizCT]

I think easier to shoot and more humane etc. is an interesting topic when we look at recurve, compound, and crossbows. Any hunter can be just as profficient with a recurve as another hunter is with a crossbow to some extent. What it comes down to is practice and dedication. And someone who puts in hours and hours with a recurve will probably truly appreciate their buck more than the 12 year old who just got his crossbow for Christmas. i believe with this time and dedication to practice, they gain a better appreciation for what we all consider to be "hunting" and not "killing" of deer.

 

Why does hours and hours of practice equate to truly appreciating a deer more?

 

I practice at a range with my rifles 1-2 times per year, so 2 hours or less of practice each year with them.  If I practiced more, it wouldn't make me appreciate the game I kill any more than I already do.  As long as I feel confident that I can make the shot, that's all that matters to me. 

[wdswtr]

ML in early bow would cause the absolute fall to the entire structure. The earth would cease to exist. Remember that place where the big creator is? It use to be the Northern Zone. Years ago when they put ML the week before gun opener and in the last week of Bow it only took 2 years and all forms of life disappeared.  

 

The longest gun season in the state, harsh winters with deep snow has a bit more to do with this than 1 week of ML.  Stupid putting them in with a very short bow season to begin with.  Why not take one of those weeks of gun instead seeing how it last so long.  As you drive around this country up here one might also notice the farms have disapeared which has a wildlife impact as well.  Wonder how many take that week of work and how many just hunt that one weekend of ML too. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

The other thing when you are thinking about the implementation of crossbows to alleviate irresponsible use of bow season weapons is the fact that there are no guarantees that a lot of new crossbow hunters won't be overestimating the capabilities of the crossbow. It is just possible that with all the advantages that we are hoping will promote cleaner kills, newbies may be just good enough to be dangerous. You know what I mean ... just good enough to get the bolt into the animal somewhere rather than the clean miss that is more typical of a beginning or unpracticed bow hunter. One of the appeals of the crossbow is the notion that you can jump into bow season without all that pain-in-the-neck practicing and development of skills. How many deer will these people go through before they realize that even the wonder-crossbow has some practice required even if only to understand the limitations. What I am saying is that irresponsible hunters will be irresponsible regardless of the weapon.

 

I agree with this to an extent. I feel that crossbows will give people that want to archery hunt but cant/dont practice enough with their bows a better opportunity to make a good shot. Its not going to fix everything, and it surely wont fix irresponsibility issues, but it will fix the majority of the non responsibility related problems IMO. You are never going to weed out the truly bad apples.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I think easier to shoot and more humane etc. is an interesting topic when we look at recurve, compound, and crossbows. Any hunter can be just as profficient with a recurve as another hunter is with a crossbow to some extent. What it comes down to is practice and dedication. And someone who puts in hours and hours with a recurve will probably truly appreciate their buck more than the 12 year old who just got his crossbow for Christmas. i believe with this time and dedication to practice, they gain a better appreciation for what we all consider to be "hunting" and not "killing" of deer.

 

I dont agree with this what so ever. I appreciate every single deer I take, no matter what weapon I use to kill it. You always completely count out the fact that it takes skill to get close enough to deer (consistently) to kill them with archery tackle. What difference is there between putting an arrow through the heart of a deer at 20 yards with your Mathews or Biz putting an arrow through a deers heart at 20 yards with his crossbow? In the end, nothing.

[Five Seasons]

Why does hours and hours of practice equate to truly appreciating a deer more?

 

I practice at a range with my rifles 1-2 times per year, so 2 hours or less of practice each year with them.  If I practiced more, it wouldn't make me appreciate the game I kill any more than I already do.  As long as I feel confident that I can make the shot, that's all that matters to me. 

 

that's not entirely what I meant. Hard to get my words across I guess, but what I meant was that when you do work really hard at something and the hard work pays off, it does make it more meaningful. If you trained and trained for the olympics, it's not the medal but it's the recognition of all the hard work.

[josephmrtn]

I kinda get what you mean but for me ANY deer was worked HARD for... no matter if i shoot it a 100 or 10 yards... I appreciate all my work

[Doc]

that's not entirely what I meant. Hard to get my words across I guess, but what I meant was that when you do work really hard at something and the hard work pays off, it does make it more meaningful. If you trained and trained for the olympics, it's not the medal but it's the recognition of all the hard work.

The fact is that it is the deer that I get with my bow that are prized the most. Most of them are the result of shooting a weapon that I consider to be much more of a challenge than my shotgun deer. And most were a result of a carefully planned out ambush rather than arbitrary situation of random luck of having a deer fleeing from another hunter and being forced to me by hordes of other hunters. So yeah, the fulfillment and satisfaction is mostly fed by the challenge of the harvest and the sense of individual achievement. I'm not sure whether that is what you had in mind or not, but it is a fact in my deer hunting.