So what about Zimmerman?

[Adkhunter1590]

The race war will never end. Wether your racist or not the pure factual numbers don't lie on criminal actions and other things. Cnn had stated a few years back on live tv the percentages of whites, blacks hispanics and orientals of by the the age 25 how many would be dead or in prison. Guess who topped that list and guess who bottomed the list out? The media fuels it very much so. Either way the kid was a punk wanna be gang banger and I feel no remorse for him. You go looking for trouble you better expect to pay the ultimate price. How many honor students get shot? Pretty simple case of ones life choices becoming their demise. Oh well. One less person to cause the state to spend more money on in future court dates and probable incarnation.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I'm gonna guess the Orientals topped the list...........or did you mean to say Asian?

Blacks topped the list. Asians actually rated lower than whites. The list went blacks at top. Then mexicans then whites then asians. Just saying what cnn said that's all

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[jjb4900]

Blacks topped the list. Asians actually rated lower than whites. The list went blacks at top. Then mexicans then whites then asians. Just saying what cnn said that's all

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

don't Mexican's fall under the Hispanic category?.......I find it hard to believe CNN used the term "Mexican".

[growalot]

so you're telling me, that in NY, if you are a 6ft 200lb male and a 5ft 100lb female or an 80lb 15 yr old is just making verbal threats against you, and you have no escape route, you can draw your gun, order them to stop and shoot them when they refuse your order? good luck with that one.

 

You are really reaching and by the way just because someones opinion differs from your doesn't make them racist...BUT...you forget your showing  that the "racist" coin carries 2 heads

 

Now back to the above statement...You bet that a person cornered and a woman coming at them... make verbal threats and not stopping when they see your gun...should expect to be shot...

I'll assume you don't live in a bubble...but even a woman or a 15yr old that is half your size can kill you...and all they really need to have is a knowledge you may not...like where to strike a vein...or where to bite...because hepatitis and aids kills as well.... just a whole lot slower...a blow to the temple or your artery in your neck...a shot to the wind pipe...

 

I put a guy in the hospital because when he went to strike me I was fast enough to sink teeth into his forearm and locked my jaw...he was twice my size and it took two other guys to get me off him...I bar-tended and managed clubs for a few years and the one fight no one wanted to get into was a woman's fight...Also I testified in front of a grand jury when one guy did get involved...and ended up with one of the woman biting half his face off and then kicking his ribs in...W e'er talking a athletic foot ball player...Wrapping a clean bar towel around his face to try to keep it together wasn't fun....NO ONE SHOULD EVER UNDER ESTIMATE ANY THREAT when cornered...

[jjb4900]

You are really reaching and by the way just because someones opinion differs from your doesn't make them racist...BUT...you forget your showing  that the "racist" coin carries 2 heads

 

Now back to the above statement...You bet that a person cornered and a woman coming at them... make verbal threats and not stopping when they see your gun...should expect to be shot...

I'll assume you don't live in a bubble...but even a woman or a 15yr old that is half your size can kill you...and all they really need to have is a knowledge you may not...like where to strike a vein...or where to bite...because hepatitis and aids kills as well.... just a whole lot slower...a blow to the temple or your artery in your neck...a shot to the wind pipe...

 

I put a guy in the hospital because when he went to strike me I was fast enough to sink teeth into his forearm and locked my jaw...he was twice my size and it took two other guys to get me off him...I bar-tended and managed clubs for a few years and the one fight no one wanted to get into was a woman's fight...Also I testified in front of a grand jury when one guy did get involved...and ended up with one of the woman biting half his face off and then kicking his ribs in...W e'er talking a athletic foot ball player...Wrapping a clean bar towel around his face to try to keep it together wasn't fun....NO ONE SHOULD EVER UNDER ESTIMATE ANY THREAT when cornered...

I don't know how the race thing is displayed as my quote, I just responded to it with the "Oriental comment....................................if you shoot and kill someone in NY, outside your home or business, you should really have a better defense than to say they looked like they had AIDS, Hepatitis or appeared to have the knowledge to kill me.

[growalot]

For one thing I said lets get back to the statement and again reaching...but since you did so....

let me tell you in NYS an assault occurs when a person is verbally threaten and feels that they are in danger...go look it up

Now this isn't a reach...verbal assault and a continued approach when you see the person is prepared to lethally defend them selves....you bet that such a shooting  would fly in NYS

 

When Officers bring guns and a wild person see this and approaches with a knife... bat ..big stick ...they are taught to shoot to kill...not wound and there is a reason for that....They have a right to defend them selves before getting injured or even the possibility of injury.... as do civilians...Now as far as legal precedent ..I'm sure there are many many cases in law that support such a defense..again you should look them up...

[jjb4900]

For one thing I said lets get back to the statement and again reaching...but since you did so....

let me tell you in NYS an assault occurs when a person is verbally threaten and feels that they are in danger...go look it up

Now this isn't a reach...verbal assault and a continued approach when you see the person is prepared to lethally defend them selves....you bet that such a shooting  would fly in NYS

 

When Officers bring guns and a wild person see this and approaches with a knife... bat ..big stick ...they are taught to shoot to kill...not wound and there is a reason for that....They have a right to defend them selves before getting injured or even the possibility of injury.... as do civilians...Now as far as legal precedent ..I'm sure there are many many cases in law that support such a defense..again you should look them up...

actually, in NY when you verbally threaten someone it's considered Harassment.........Assault is when you physically injure someone........and Police are not taught to shoot to kill, they are taught to shoot until the threat is removed...maybe you should go look it up..........and a Police Officer cannot just shoot someone because they "might" get injured........

Edited July 14, 2013 by jjb4900

[growalot]

The act required for an assault must be overt. Although words alone are insufficient, they might create an assault when coupled with some action that indicates the ability to carry out the threat. A mere threat to harm is not an assault; however, a threat combined with a raised fist might be sufficient if it causes a reasonable apprehension of harm in the victim.

Intent is an essential element of assault. In tort law, it can be specific intent—if the assailant intends to cause the apprehension of harmful or offensive contact in the victim—or general intent—if he or she intends to do the act that causes such apprehension. In addition, the intent element is satisfied if it is substantially certain, to a reasonable person, that the act will cause the result. A defendant who holds a gun to a victim's head possesses the requisite intent, since it is substantially certain that this act will produce an apprehension in the victim. In all cases, intent to kill or harm is irrelevant.

 

No physical contact required

Edited July 14, 2013 by growalot

[jjb4900]

No physical contact required

that isn't from the NYS Penal Law....better check your source... and if you hold a gun to someone's head in NY and threaten to kill them, it becomes another crime, not Assault.

Edited July 14, 2013 by jjb4900

[growalot]

So you take from this what you will....

 

http://www.pfoa.co.uk/110/shooting-to-wound

 

IMO when taught to shoot center mass it is a shoot to kill...which isn't unreasonable if they assess  the assailant properly ...that a whole other thread

[Deerthug]

actually, in NY when you verbally threaten someone it's considered Harassment.........Assault is when you physically injure someone........and Police are not taught to shoot to kill, they are taught to shoot until the threat is removed...maybe you should go look it up..........and a Police Officer cannot just shoot someone because they "might" get injured........

Actually "assault" is not the actual contact. Assault is defined in layman's terms as a threat of imminent bodily harm coupled with the means to carry it out. "Battery" is the actual physical contact which can range from an unwanted touching to an all out beating.

Edited July 14, 2013 by Deerthug

[jjb4900]

Actually "assault" is not the actual contact. Assault is defined in layman's terms as a threat of imminent bodily harm. "Battery" is the actual physical contact which can range from an unwanted touching to an all out beating.

you won't see anyone charged with "Battery" in NY.......

[Deerthug]

you won't see anyone charged with "Battery" in NY.......

Really? Check your sources. Usually they are charged together if the threat of harm actually results in a harm.

[jjb4900]

Really? Check your sources. Usually they are charged together if the threat of harm actually results in a harm.

so where does harassment come into play? the verbal threatening of someone.............my source is the NYS Penal Law.

Edited July 14, 2013 by jjb4900

[SteveB]

[ants]

It would be proper to wish that all you Trayvon Martin haters never suffer the loss of a child/grandchild to such senseless violence, but.....In my weak moments, I hope you all do!!!

 

 

I don't think anyone "Hated" Trayvon. The thing is that you, and others, are going on 100% pure emotion, speculation and assumptions. I black  unarmed "child" was killed by an armed white person and thats all that matters to you. It MUST be racism.  You ignore the only  things that can  decide  a case like physical evidence & eyewitness testimony. 

 

 

BTY Zimmerman did not use the stand your ground defense (which NY does not have) he use  simple defense. 

[sits in trees]

I don't think anyone "Hated" Trayvon. The thing is that you, and others, are going on 100% pure emotion, speculation and assumptions. I black  unarmed "child" was killed by an armed white person and thats all that matters to you. It MUST be racism.  You ignore the only  things that can  decide  a case like physical evidence & eyewitness testimony. 

 

 

BTY Zimmerman did not use the stand your ground defense (which NY does not have) he use  simple defense. 

What are the technical differences between the 2 defenses?

[Early]

What BULL!!  If I have some ZIMMERMAN RULES T-shirts made up, can I count on you to buy a dozen, or do you want more?

[SteveB]

Are you making up any "hope your kids die" shirts?

[ants]

What BULL!!  If I have some ZIMMERMAN RULES T-shirts made up, can I count on you to buy a dozen, or do you want more?

 

 

Again, you are 100% pure emotions, and assumptions. I know it's impossible for you to even consider the physical evidence and eyewitness testimony, but thats what decides cases.( or at least is supposed to decide cases)

[ants]

What are the technical differences between the 2 defenses?

 

 

The way I have heard it explained is that in simple self defense you have to prove that you were not the aggressor and that you did not start the altercation. In stand your ground it doesn't matter who started it or who was the aggressor. 

[Deerthug]

so where does harassment come into play? the verbal threatening of someone.............my source is the NYS Penal Law.

Here is the penal law on harrassment and assault. There is no separate penal code for battery although the definition of battery is unwanted touching. There are however various degrees of assault as well as harrassment.

§ 240.25 Harassment in the first degree.

A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she

intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such

person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course

of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in

reasonable fear of physical injury.

Harassment in the first degree is a class B misdemeanor.

§ 240.26 Harassment in the second degree.

A person is guilty of harassment in the second degree when, with

intent to harass, annoy or alarm another person:

1. He or she strikes, shoves, kicks or otherwise subjects such other

person to physical contact, or attempts or threatens to do the same; or

2. He or she follows a person in or about a public place or places; or

3. He or she engages in a course of conduct or repeatedly commits acts

which alarm or seriously annoy such other person and which serve no

legitimate purpose.

Harassment in the second degree is a violation.

Compared to Assault

§ 120.10 Assault in the first degree.

A person is guilty of assault in the first degree when:

1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he

causes such injury to such person or to a third person by means of a

deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or

2. With intent to disfigure another person seriously and permanently,

or to destroy, amputate or disable permanently a member or organ of his

body, he causes such injury to such person or to a third person; or

3. Under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life,

he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to

another person, and thereby causes serious physical injury to another

person; or

4. In the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempted

commission of a felony or of immediate flight therefrom, he, or another

participant if there be any, causes serious physical injury to a person

other than one of the participants.

Assault in the first degree is a class B felony.

§ 120.05 Assault in the second degree.

A person is guilty of assault in the second degree when:

1. With intent to cause serious physical injury to another person, he

causes such injury to such person or to a third person; or

2. With intent to cause physical injury to another person, he causes

such injury to such person or to a third person by means of a deadly

weapon or a dangerous instrument; or

3. With intent to prevent a peace officer, a police officer,

registered nurse, licensed practical nurse, sanitation enforcement

agent, New York city sanitation worker, a firefighter, including a

firefighter acting as a paramedic or emergency medical technician

administering first aid in the course of performance of duty as such

firefighter, an emergency medical service paramedic or emergency medical

service technician, or medical or related personnel in a hospital

emergency department, a city marshal, a traffic enforcement officer or

traffic enforcement agent, from performing a lawful duty, by means

including releasing or failing to control an animal under circumstances

evincing the actor's intent that the animal obstruct the lawful activity

of such peace officer, police officer, registered nurse, licensed

practical nurse, sanitation enforcement agent, New York city sanitation

worker, firefighter, paramedic, technician, city marshal, traffic

enforcement officer or traffic enforcement agent, he or she causes

physical injury to such peace officer, police officer, registered nurse,

licensed practical nurse, sanitation enforcement agent, New York city

sanitation worker, firefighter, paramedic, technician or medical or

related personnel in a hospital emergency department, city marshal,

traffic enforcement officer or traffic enforcement agent; or

3-a. With intent to prevent an employee of a local social services

district directly involved in investigation of or response to alleged

abuse or neglect of a child, a vulnerable elderly person or an

incompetent or physically disabled person, from performing such

investigation or response, the actor, not being such child, vulnerable

elderly person or incompetent or physically disabled person, or with

intent to prevent an employee of a local social services district

directly involved in providing public assistance and care from

performing his or her job, causes physical injury to such employee

including by means of releasing or failing to control an animal under

circumstances evincing the actor's intent that the animal obstruct the

lawful activities of such employee; or

4. He recklessly causes serious physical injury to another person by

means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or

* 4-a. He recklessly causes physical injury to another person who is a

child under the age of eighteen by intentional discharge of a firearm,

rifle or shotgun; or

* NB Effective March 16, 2013

5. For a purpose other than lawful medical or therapeutic treatment,

he intentionally causes stupor, unconsciousness or other physical

impairment or injury to another person by administering to him, without

his consent, a drug, substance or preparation capable of producing the

same; or

6. In the course of and in furtherance of the commission or attempted

commission of a felony, other than a felony defined in article one

hundred thirty which requires corroboration for conviction, or of

immediate flight therefrom, he, or another participant if there be any,

causes physical injury to a person other than one of the participants;

or

7. Having been charged with or convicted of a crime and while confined

in a correctional facility, as defined in subdivision three of section

forty of the correction law, pursuant to such charge or conviction, with

intent to cause physical injury to another person, he causes such injury

to such person or to a third person; or

8. Being eighteen years old or more and with intent to cause physical

injury to a person less than eleven years old, the defendant recklessly

causes serious physical injury to such person; or

9. Being eighteen years old or more and with intent to cause physical

injury to a person less than seven years old, the defendant causes such

injury to such person; or

10. Acting at a place the person knows, or reasonably should know, is

on school grounds and with intent to cause physical injury, he or she:

a. causes such injury to an employee of a school or public school

district; or

b. not being a student of such school or public school district, causes physical injury to another, and such other person is a student of

such school who is attending or present for educational purposes. For

purposes of this subdivision the term "school grounds" shall have the

meaning set forth in subdivision fourteen of section 220.00 of this

chapter.

11. With intent to cause physical injury to a train operator, ticket

inspector, conductor, signalperson, bus operator or station agent

employed by any transit agency, authority or company, public or private,

whose operation is authorized by New York state or any of its political

subdivisions, a city marshal, a traffic enforcement officer, traffic

enforcement agent, sanitation enforcement agent, New York city

sanitation worker, registered nurse or licensed practical nurse he or

she causes physical injury to such train operator, ticket inspector,

conductor, signalperson, bus operator or station agent, city marshal,

traffic enforcement officer, traffic enforcement agent, registered nurse

or licensed practical nurse, sanitation enforcement agent or New York

city sanitation worker, while such employee is performing an assigned

duty on, or directly related to, the operation of a train or bus, or

such city marshal, traffic enforcement officer, traffic enforcement

agent, registered nurse or licensed practical nurse, sanitation

enforcement agent or New York city sanitation worker, is performing an

assigned duty.

11-a. With intent to cause physical injury to an employee of a local

social services district directly involved in investigation of or

response to alleged abuse or neglect of a child, vulnerable elderly

person or an incompetent or physically disabled person, the actor, not

being such child, vulnerable elderly person or incompetent or physically

disabled person, or with intent to prevent an employee of a local social

services district directly involved in providing public assistance and

care from performing his or her job, causes physical injury to such

employee; or

12. With intent to cause physical injury to a person who is sixty-five

years of age or older, he or she causes such injury to such person, and

the actor is more than ten years younger than such person.

Assault in the second degree is a class D felony.

§ 120.00 Assault in the third degree.

A person is guilty of assault in the third degree when:

1. With intent to cause physical injury to another person, he causes

such injury to such person or to a third person; or

2. He recklessly causes physical injury to another person; or

3. With criminal negligence, he causes physical injury to another

person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument.

Assault in the third degree is a class A misdemeanor.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Deerthug

[Renegade Hunter]

Don't worry DeerThug, you only took up a whole page LOL.

[Deerthug]

Sorry. I don't handle criminal matters so I researched the law in NY on assault charges and harassment for my own benefit and I wanted to share with you all to set the record straight.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Deerthug

[Renegade Hunter]

Aaaand.... We can argue about this all day. The jury determined Zimmerman was innocent after using a firearm in self defense. And for that, we should be grateful.

[Renegade Hunter]

No worries deerthug. Just busting on you a little lol.