Ever do something stupid?

[Geno C]

hope your finger heals up quick! hope you get a crack at that buck after all that.

[phade]

I don't discredit it... I find it funny how much you tout it... especially when I've asked to see pics of the big bucks you've killed off their beds and I never do.

 

Window licker (saying in joking/jest and I'm being genuine here in this post content Belo) - we've went through this before. I've turned to bed style tactics for three seasons now and killed two bucks in October with it, and the other year I hunted a ghost that was killed the morning after I saw him the first time while on stand.

 

One was 3.5 and last year's buck was 5.5+ and he died within his first 50 steps from the bed. We've been down that road already.

 

I don't proclaim to know everything about bed hunting as it's a newer tactic to me, but what I do know is that it works well and there's a reason behind it. I'm not some random person who invented the tactic...it's a long-standing and well documented way to kill mature bucks. When you start learning to hunt beds, you realize that the "way" most people do things hunting-wise is incorrect and is either detrimental to their success or otherwise limits their abilities if they are seeking wallhangers. If they are not, understanding bed use is still beneficial.

 

Is it the only way? No, most certainly not. Is it the most effective way? Maybe. When people say bucks bed willy nilly, like Doc, it just amazes me that someone that old can't understand mature bucks do what they do and why they do it. He pretty much says its impossible to kill a buck off his bed, and that's simply not true, if one does their homework.

 

Then there's people close minded like you - you say you don't discredit it, but you've never once asked about how/why it works or to learn more about it - despite whining, disagreeing, and trying to deflect from your own ignorance. And, you haven't tried it. Instead, you say what works for you is what you'll stick with. That's great, but at some point, your mind starts closing off because you fail to see the forest for the trees and don't recognize that "what works for you" might not be as good as other tactics. I don't discredit funnels and pinches, etc. and use them in my game plan.

 

Then, there are people like GSJ4, Sam Potter, JRS, Moog, WNYB, and multiple other people on this site who either employ the tactic or are learning about it now. Potter arguably has the best wall on this forum, GJS4s wall is pretty nice to look at (but I know he'll never show it), and what I am building now isn't shabby. Both of them employ bed tactics into their arsenal. Nobody talks about it near as much as me, but that's because I've grasped it pretty quickly and have put the logistic pieces of the puzzle together and I can put pen to paper to capture it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Edited October 2, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

you're blowing it way out of proportion man. I have not tried it because it doesn't seem like a tactic that would be worth the effort. I'm not sure that's being closed minded. I shoot deer every year. Not all our giants, but what I do works. If you remember, the whole thing started because you or someone else were flipping out about "rut hunters". I made a comment to you because nobody else seems to, but through pm's i know many feel like I do. It was literally meant as a little jab and nothing more. Like I said, if it works for you that's great... we can probably drop the whole thing now as I know you can see I was joking at the beginning of this thread.

 

still waiting for pics though

[phade]

 

you're blowing it way out of proportion man. I have not tried it because it doesn't seem like a tactic that would be worth the effort. I'm not sure that's being closed minded. I shoot deer every year. Not all our giants, but what I do works. If you remember, the whole thing started because you or someone else were flipping out about "rut hunters". I made a comment to you because nobody else seems to, but through pm's i know many feel like I do. It was literally meant as a little jab and nothing more. Like I said, if it works for you that's great... we can probably drop the whole thing now as I know you can see I was joking at the beginning of this thread.

 

still waiting for pics though

 

See, that's the thing. I think your post is the definition of close minded. I read the words "not tried" "seem" and "not worth the effort." You're making assumptions based on something you don't know much about (beast style hunting) or haven't looked into in-depth. And, I know you want to shoot older class bucks if you can based on your posts here.

Close Minded = Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.

I don't discount rut tactics at all. What I discount is waiting on the rut as the only "realistic" way or time to kill a mature buck. That's not close-minded.

But, I'll throw this out there. If you ever want to see how - we can go scout post-season.

[greg54]

Yep today I did something stupid (actually 2 things).  Was going out to my sisters property to get my first time back in the woods in 2 yrs, and well, it never happened. On my way, I was in such a hurry to get out that I found myself being pulled over by the cops. I was at 28mph in a 15mph school zone. After a quick stern warning to slow down, I was let go with a warning. Sigh of relief. Well, I get to my sisters and start to get my gear out, and notice I forgot my pack that had my clothes and back tag. After a couple curse words, I kicked my truck tire and headed home. 2 stupid things I won't be doing again!!

[Merlot]

Forgot to pack the Merlot last year...had to "settle" for Canadian beer at camp...other than that, I've been perfect...

[Zag]

Phade, I appreciate your insight and think there is deff value in what you say. I have two hunting spots that together total 10 acres, both surrounded by ag. My tactic is to hunt them light only in good wind and hunt them hard from Halloween to Veterans day when activity picks up! I conveniently schedule my vacation then. What's ur thoughts?

[Five Seasons]

   

See, that's the thing. I think your post is the definition of close minded. I read the words "not tried" "seem" and "not worth the effort." You're making assumptions based on something you don't know much about (beast style hunting) or haven't looked into in-depth. And, I know you want to shoot older class bucks if you can based on your posts here.

Close Minded = Intolerant of the beliefs and opinions of others; stubbornly unreceptive to new ideas.

I don't discount rut tactics at all. What I discount is waiting on the rut as the only "realistic" way or time to kill a mature buck. That's not close-minded.

But, I'll throw this out there. If you ever want to see how - we can go scout post-season.

 

I guess I'm having trouble wording it then. How's this - I don't doubt that you can successfully hunt a buck's bed. I am skeptical based on my knowledge of deer hunting. I am not completely dismissing it and as I've said before if it works for you then that's great. I don't believe I'm being closed minded when I simply "question it". And I'm not going to spend hours on something I'm skeptical of when my time is precious. So call me a skeptic, not close minded.

 

Also we both know that when someone shoots a big buck, if the previous night they used some mock scrape attractant they may believe this is why... and we both know that you can't prove that buck would not have come in anyhow.

 

If i have several pics of a nice buck or 2 near a stand that happen to show a trend of afternoon or morning... and then I hunt that stand based on the trend and I'm successful. Did I just "hunt his bed"? Or did I simply just pattern him?

[phade]

Excuses. Thats all I see. We will just differ on this.

[phade]

Excuses. Thats all I see. We will just differ on this.

You also spend a lot of posts on xbows.

[Five Seasons]

you didn't answer any of my questions. For the most part you and I have been able to be civil and debate intelligently... until you called me a goober.

 

Anyhow,

 

I disagree with crossbows. what's that have to do with anything? Did you see the video field archer posted in the crossbow section? She's shooting from a freaking bipod mounted to a stand. You think that's archery?

[phade]

you didn't answer any of my questions. For the most part you and I have been able to be civil and debate intelligently... until you called me a goober.

 

Anyhow,

 

I disagree with crossbows. what's that have to do with anything? Did you see the video field archer posted in the crossbow section? She's shooting from a freaking bipod mounted to a stand. You think that's archery?

 

A mature buck has a "safe zone" around its given bed for that night. It could be 50 yards. It could be 75, etc. It's often not very big in many cases. That distance is the amount he's willing to go from his bed in daylight hours. Most often that max distance is the jaunt from his bed in the evening to the point of sunset. The key is to get right on the edge of that safe zone and intercept that buck without him knowing you are there.

 

I firmly believe most deer that are killed prior to the seeking phase are killed close to the bed (unless out west where deer travel long open expanses), even when the hunters don't know it. So patterning a deer often means they have a buck on a schedule so to speak and in case where they don't know the bed is/are, they're 99/100x very close to it unknowingly. If you know where the bed is, your ability to setup and intercept that buck is much greater than merely "patterning a deer" without knowing the bed or at the very least the immediate bedding area. A good example is Miz10 or whatever his name is - and that pear tree. He's got daylight pics. It doesn't sound like they know where the beds are....but I bet they're close. If they could find and locate the bed, they can increase their odds for an encounter. Face it, the closer to the bed, without alerting/busting the buck, results in a higher likelihood of daylight encounters.

 

You say you don't spend time on stuff you are skeptical of, or question. And you certainly question xbows with alot of effort and time spent doing so. All I know is that when it is legal in archery, I fully expect you to buy and hunt with one based on your comments earlier this week/last week. You are a walking contradiction.

[phade]

Phade, I appreciate your insight and think there is deff value in what you say. I have two hunting spots that together total 10 acres, both surrounded by ag. My tactic is to hunt them light only in good wind and hunt them hard from Halloween to Veterans day when activity picks up! I conveniently schedule my vacation then. What's ur thoughts?

My first comment/question would be: Is that the only place you have to hunt? If so, my first and primary goal would be landing a separate other parcel or two. People undervalue having multiple places to hunt to rotate pressure and for different winds, different times of the year. Invariably, at some point, those 10 acres are pigeon-holing you in the season. Maybe early, maybe during rut, maybe late, maybe on a SE or a N wind...Why knowingly do that to yourself?

 

For small parcels, you need to know what kind of parcel is it. Is it bedding? Is it transition? Sounds like it's not food source with the ag around you (unless you have mast/browse in big quantity) and that's a good thing imo. What are the deer movements like? What are the crops around it? When are they a primary draw?

 

Your tactic is good if the parcel is a transition piece timed with rut action. Not every ground is going to have it when parcels are that small. What if that parcel has heavy use early with cover, but as leaves fall, they abandon it for other routes? I'm sure you know the answer by now for that parcel, but those are things to look at.

 

My advice given a transition piece that seems to have good rut activity and no pattern on a buck at the moment. Go in and go for a homerun early - try to catch a buck moving with confidence because of the lack of pressure along the best buck travel route. Obviously hunt it with wind/access in mind. But, take that homerun shot early.Then, back out and hunt what edges you can and leave the pressure light until you can get in when sign picks up. If there's a hard break (creek that they only cross in spots, a cliff, ravine,an open field they won't access, etc.) that you can enter/leave without burning ground, you may be able to hunt it more - rare, but it does happen.

 

Overhunting small parcels is more common because of limited ways to minimize your stink/disruption. Make each hunt count.

Edited October 3, 2013 by phade

[Five Seasons]

A mature buck has a "safe zone" around its given bed for that night. It could be 50 yards. It could be 75, etc. It's often not very big in many cases. That distance is the amount he's willing to go from his bed in daylight hours. Most often that max distance is the jaunt from his bed in the evening to the point of sunset. The key is to get right on the edge of that safe zone and intercept that buck without him knowing you are there.

 

I firmly believe most deer that are killed prior to the seeking phase are killed close to the bed (unless out west where deer travel long open expanses), even when the hunters don't know it. So patterning a deer often means they have a buck on a schedule so to speak and in case where they don't know the bed is/are, they're 99/100x very close to it unknowingly. If you know where the bed is, your ability to setup and intercept that buck is much greater than merely "patterning a deer" without knowing the bed or at the very least the immediate bedding area. A good example is Miz10 or whatever his name is - and that pear tree. He's got daylight pics. It doesn't sound like they know where the beds are....but I bet they're close. If they could find and locate the bed, they can increase their odds for an encounter. Face it, the closer to the bed, without alerting/busting the buck, results in a higher likelihood of daylight encounters.

 

You say you don't spend time on stuff you are skeptical of, or question. And you certainly question xbows with alot of effort and time spent doing so. All I know is that when it is legal in archery, I fully expect you to buy and hunt with one based on your comments earlier this week/last week. You are a walking contradiction.

 

First, just to clarify I understand what you're saying. Prior to chase, a buck sleeps within 75 yards of the same spot every night?

 

I'd like to add that patterning a deer can also involve food sources, scrape lines etc. not just his sleeping grounds. I am genuinely curious as to why you firmly believe most deer are killed near their beds? If this was true, would there not be monthly writeups in the numerous deer mags and shows discussing it? I don't doubt that there are some, but if this is so crucial why is more time spent on other topics? Are we all just ignorant? Again i'm not discounting the theory, I just struggle with it and how much faith you put in it.

 

I have spent time on crossbows. I've done my research. I am not "skeptical" of crossbows, it's a general opinion of mine that they are not good for sport during archery season for use by an able bodied hunter. And maybe you didn't read the rest of the thread, but I did state very clearly that if they were legalized it would be a tough decision. I mentioned I would like to learn to be capable with a recurve, but would still use my compound as it is more proficient. So if I could setup a fixed crossbow in a stand... it would be hard to justifying not doing so. Would I still hunt with the compound though? Absolutely!

[phade]

First, just to clarify I understand what you're saying. Prior to chase, a buck sleeps within 75 yards of the same spot every night?

 

I'd like to add that patterning a deer can also involve food sources, scrape lines etc. not just his sleeping grounds. I am genuinely curious as to why you firmly believe most deer are killed near their beds? If this was true, would there not be monthly writeups in the numerous deer mags and shows discussing it? I don't doubt that there are some, but if this is so crucial why is more time spent on other topics? Are we all just ignorant? Again i'm not discounting the theory, I just struggle with it and how much faith you put in it.

 

I have spent time on crossbows. I've done my research. I am not "skeptical" of crossbows, it's a general opinion of mine that they are not good for sport during archery season for use by an able bodied hunter. And maybe you didn't read the rest of the thread, but I did state very clearly that if they were legalized it would be a tough decision. I mentioned I would like to learn to be capable with a recurve, but would still use my compound as it is more proficient. So if I could setup a fixed crossbow in a stand... it would be hard to justifying not doing so. Would I still hunt with the compound though? Absolutely!

 

A safe zone is the area around that buck's bed (that given night) in which is he comfortable being on his feet in daylight hours. In most cases, that max distance is the distance that buck will travel between the time he gets up in the evening to the point of sunset. What you aren't comprehending is that mature bucks don't often have a large area where they will be on their feet in daylight - they're sticking tight to cover, tight to their bed, and tight to the food/water they can access. This is absurdly different than young bucks and does. Again, you talk about scrape lines and food sources - most scrapes are hit at night (80-90%) and those daylight visits are going to be close to home if it's before the rut factor kicks in. Same goes with foo sources, most cases, they're pretty late into the fields. If they're feeding in the interior, they have cover and can move about, but again, they'll be close to their beds. Most people stumble on bucks because they set up near a bed unknowingly, thinking they're on a travel pattern or some food source, a funnel. Many people look at transition lines -say swamp to hardwood or hardwood to brush - and think funnel. What they don't know is that transition lines are some of the most likely buck bedding areas, allowing them vision of what they can't smell and smell of what they can't see. So, when they shoot a buck there, they think it was a "funnel action" that led that buck there. Again, you are putting words in my mouth - you said most deer are killed near there bed. No. I say most mature bucks are killed close to their bed when done before the rut factors kick in.

 

Will a deer bed in one bed sometimes? Yes, occassionally. Many times no, but the buck will choose spots for a reason in a given area. You hunt each bed individually on most cases. Sometimes you whiff, sometimes you don't. But, as each bed is emptied/hunted, you stack the buck to the fewer remaining beds he knows and beds in.

 

Are oblivious to people like Dan Infalt and Andrae D'Aqusito. Or, people like Mark (i forget his last name...the ghillie suit guy on the ground), and countless others. It is not exactly a little known secret. Heck, even here this month, someone posted about the article in f&s about bed hunting on Dan Infalt. I do find it funny you bash mags and what people put in there in your past posts, and then try to use that as evidence going the other way. You should look into it. It'll open your eyes to other ways of getting things done and done better.

Edited October 3, 2013 by phade

[Witty]

What I see in that video is a young lady who is enjoying herself in the woods when most kids are stuck in front of some time of electronic device. I could care less what weapon she uses. She (along with every other young hunter) is what will keep our sport going. I for one will be trying this beast style hunting this off season. It sounds like fun and it's something new for me. I would take phade up on the scouting trip, you might learn something and what is the harm in that?

[Five Seasons]

bash mags? what are you talking about? You keep arguing back with me like I'm discounting your whole theory. That's never been the case, I just criticize the weight you put into it and your scoffing at rut hunters as some sort of primal unintelligent way to hunt, while you bag your mature bucks early on without the need for the rut, but somehow they're never photo'd.

 

I leave for the dacks in a few hours, so I'm over this. Essentially what you're saying is that people who hunt transition zones, scrape lines and funnels are also hunting buck beds? That may be true, I wont even argue it with you and you threw out some names of individuals who are successful. i don't watch a lot of shows or read a ton of magazines so I have no idea who they are but I wont debate they are who you say they are. I gather more knowledge by simply being in the woods and hunting then I ever do reading.

 

But when you boil it down, hunters use a variety of methods to harvest a buck. In a way we're just calling it different things... although I do get a kick out of you "finding a buck bed". enjoy your weekend.

[phade]

bash mags? what are you talking about? You keep arguing back with me like I'm discounting your whole theory. That's never been the case, I just criticize the weight you put into it and your scoffing at rut hunters as some sort of primal unintelligent way to hunt, while you bag your mature bucks early on without the need for the rut, but somehow they're never photo'd.

 

I leave for the dacks in a few hours, so I'm over this. Essentially what you're saying is that people who hunt transition zones, scrape lines and funnels are also hunting buck beds? That may be true, I wont even argue it with you and you threw out some names of individuals who are successful. i don't watch a lot of shows or read a ton of magazines so I have no idea who they are but I wont debate they are who you say they are. I gather more knowledge by simply being in the woods and hunting then I ever do reading.

 

But when you boil it down, hunters use a variety of methods to harvest a buck. In a way we're just calling it different things... although I do get a kick out of you "finding a buck bed". enjoy your weekend.

 

Wait didn't you just say that the tactic would be in more mags if it were popular? How do you know if you don't watch alot or read much? Mr. Contradiction, indeed.

 

Cliff notes: Infalt is a beast style pro (meaning good at it) on public ground. D'Aquisto is the man who created Lone Wolf - the stand was made precisely for bed hunting/beast style. The Mark guy is a master ground hunter in a ghillie suit who stalks to beds and kills his bucks there.

 

Off to your weekend.

 

I never once discount rut hunting. It is much easier, but that's not the point. The point is you can improve your odds by adding beast style tactics in and outside of the rut. Wait on a short window in the rut, or do that AND try to ambush a good buck or two based on his bedding....

Edited October 3, 2013 by phade

[TeeBugg]

Wasnt this thread about doing something stupid? All i see is what i think are grown men bickering from behind keyboards or cell phones. Who cares how ya hunt...just hunt!

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

Edited October 3, 2013 by TeeBugg

[phade]

Here's a buck bedding this year that we have a fair amount of intel on for this year. He likes bedding in the marsh.

 

Cams are about 40 feet apart.

 

Into the bed the morning of Sept. 1 (notice the time - just before sunrise - not many mornings will a buck be beat to his bed before/after rut. It happens, but rare)

 

And the pic is a snapshot of a video of him leaving the bed the evening of September 1. We've come to determine he likely prefers wind-based beds as he can't see in the marsh areas very well and he uses satellite bucks and does bedding around him as an "alert system" so to speak.

 

Again, the cams are 40 feet apart and the buck is bedding about 60-75 yds from the daytime shot.

 

 

[phade]

Wasnt this thread about doing something stupid? All i see is what i think are grown men bickering from behind keyboards or cell phones. Who cares how ya hunt...just hunt! Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

 

We're demonstrating stupid. C'mon man, can't you see that?

[TeeBugg]

Lmao i see it! Bright as day!

Sent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk 2

[Zag]

Phade.. All great questions. The 7 acre piece is brand new. Its tough to scout due to limited area (im not the trespassing type). Their are few really defined trails leading to and from the fields. I would classify the area as bedding / transition. Im very limited in strategies and hopefully I can answer more of those questions as I have some stand time in the coming weeks!! Being more analytical in the field is something I really need to improve on (not just at work). Appreciate your insight!! My other 3 acres are right in my back yr. Its basically an over grown field with a ton of cover and food that backs up to a 20 acre wood lot that has hunting pressure. Hopefully my plots will help direct there travels. But its tough getting them to cross my 175ft wide strip.