Red Wolves In New York State ?

[Water Rat]

Just curious as to what the general consensus would be .

[dbHunterNY]

I think it's tough to tell the difference between a red wolf, someone's mixed breed dog out and about chasing deer, or big coyote.  they're all the same to me.

[sampotter]

The last wolf killed in the Adirondacks (1890s, Reuben Cary) was DNA tested and found to be a red wolf.

[phade]

I think coyote genetics here in NY still show some red wolf DNA markers.

[genesee_mohican]

I think you'd have a better chance seeing a mountain lion.

 

 

The red wolf (Canis rufus) is one of the world's most endangered canids. Once common throughout the eastern and southcentral United States, red wolf populations were decimated by the early part of the 20th Century as a result of intensive predator control programs and the degradation and alteration of the species' habitat. The red wolf was designated an endangered species in 1967, and shortly thereafter the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service initiated efforts to conserve the species. Today, more than 100 red wolves roam their native habitats in eastern North Carolina, and nearly 200 red wolves are maintained in captive breeding facilities throughout the United States.

 

http://www.fws.gov/redwolf/

[dhuntley2]

The last wolf killed in the Adirondacks (1890s, Reuben Cary) was DNA tested and found to be a red wolf.

 Were did you find this dna data about red wolves being in the adks?  Everything that I have always read about wolves in NYS have always been Eastern wolves not red wolves. And there is an eastern canadian red wolf that is not the same as a red wolf.

[sampotter]

 Were did you find this dna data about red wolves being in the adks?  Everything that I have always read about wolves in NYS have always been Eastern wolves not red wolves. And there is an eastern canadian red wolf that is not the same as a red wolf.

 

 

For whatever reason I cannot copy and paste the link. Search " reuben cary last Adirondack red wolf". There are several good links. There is reference to the fact that genetically, the coyotes in the NE are "more red wolf than coyote", so maybe the "wolves" never truly disappeared from NY.

 

[dhuntley2]

For whatever reason I cannot copy and paste the link. Search " reuben cary last Adirondack red wolf". There are several good links. There is reference to the fact that genetically, the coyotes in the NE are "more red wolf than coyote", so maybe the "wolves" never truly disappeared from NY.

 

Ok so I Just googled it and everything I read says it was a Canadian red wolf hybrid of some kind that he shot and that the wolves that used to be here were eastern grey wolves. Nothing about red wolves, they are, and were in the south east. The wolves that used to be here were Eastern grey wolves.

Edited December 13, 2013 by dhuntley2

[sampotter]

http://www.apnmag.com/summer_2006/wolves.php

[skeets716]

Correct me if I am wrong but have heard that Hybrids between domestic dogs and coyotes cannot exist.  I read that this is because a domestic dogs breeding cycle can happen anytime during the year while a coyote's cycle is geared towards the springtime ensuring the opportunity to grow up ready for the following winter.  Hybrids that are theoretically born in late Fall or Winter would never survive.  Thoughts?

 

[skeets716]

http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2011/05/31/study_eastern_wolves_are_hybrids_with_coyotes/

 

[skeets716]

http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2011/05/31/study_eastern_wolves_are_hybrids_with_coyotes/

 

Red Wolves are mentioned in the article.

 

[Jennifer]

I think coyote genetics here in NY still show some red wolf DNA markers.

 

Not Red Wolves as we know them in the states, but yes, our yotes have wolf DNA: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/111107-hybrids-coyotes-wolf-virginia-dna-animals-science/

[DROpTINE]

Correct me if I am wrong but have heard that Hybrids between domestic dogs and coyotes cannot exist. I read that this is because a domestic dogs breeding cycle can happen anytime during the year while a coyote's cycle is geared towards the springtime ensuring the opportunity to grow up ready for the following winter. Hybrids that are theoretically born in late Fall or Winter would never survive. Thoughts?

Domestic dogs and coyotes can Breed and have bred. It is documented, I won't be able to search the info now and post it but it is possible and has happened. I'll post later

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[sampotter]

From these articles it appears that even different regions in the East have varying amounts of wolf DNA in their respective coyote populations. In any event, we do not need wolves in NY! I was in the Adirondacks for 4 days last week. More than a few times I found running deer tracks with running coyote tracks following them.

[Jennifer]

From these articles it appears that even different regions in the East have varying amounts of wolf DNA in their respective coyote populations. In any event, we do not need wolves in NY! I was in the Adirondacks for 4 days last week. More than a few times I found running deer tracks with running coyote tracks following them.

 

 

To my understanding, our 'hybrid' coyotes have filled the predatory niche that the extirpated wolves and cougars of the past used to fill.

Of course, it is much more complicated now, as habitat fragmentation and loss combines with the ability of coyotes to adapt to living near human areas.

[mike rossi]

Correct me if I am wrong but have heard that Hybrids between domestic dogs and coyotes cannot exist.  I read that this is because a domestic dogs breeding cycle can happen anytime during the year while a coyote's cycle is geared towards the springtime ensuring the opportunity to grow up ready for the following winter.  Hybrids that are theoretically born in late Fall or Winter would never survive.  Thoughts?

 

Thoughts about this DEC statement, you ask? My thoughts are coy dogs are rare for a number of reasons, but the estrous timing of domestic dogs is only a minor reason as to why.

 

Also: I believe you misquoted the DEC. I don't recall it saying "hybrids between domestics and coyotes cannot exist". What was that link again, please, I would like to revisit that one...

Edited December 16, 2013 by mike rossi

[sampotter]

I forgot I had this old photo of Reuben Cary with the "Last Adirondack Wolf", killed in 1893 on my family's property. As mentioned earlier it was DNA tested in the last 10 years or so and was shown to have Red Wolf genes, similar to the Algonquin Wolves of Ontario. It doesn't look any bigger than the coyotes we have there today.

Edited December 17, 2013 by sampotter

[BizCT]

"Real" wolves make even the biggest New York coyotes look like chihuahua's.

 

Both of these have skulls close to 18".

[sampotter]

"Real" wolves make even the biggest New York coyotes look like chihuahua's.

 

Both of these have skulls close to 18".

 

Yep- those wolves are literally a different breed. I assume not from Westchester? 18" long or L+W?

 

[BizCT]

Yep- those wolves are literally a different breed. I assume not from Westchester? 18" long or L+W?

 

 

L+W. 

 

Both were shot by my Dad in British Columbia.  Someday I'll get a wolf (I hope). I went to Alberta and Ontario on wolf hunts and never seen one. My Dad hunted wolves for 30+ days over the course of a few years and several separate trips (Alberta, Ontario, British Columbia) before ever seeing one and then got these 2 within minutes of each other.

 

I'm going to B.C. in a few weeks on a Lynx hunt and a wolf tag is only $50, so I am going to buy a tag in the rare chance I come across one.

 

Pic attached for size reference. My Dad is only 5'6" though.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Biz-R-OWorld

[ncountry]

Holy ,big Puppy!!!

[Jennifer]

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/meet-the-coywolf/meet-the-coywolf/8605/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=pbsofficial&utm_campaign=nature

 

The Eastern timber wolf is more closely related to coyotes than to grey wolves, thus why they interbred so easily.

 

Also, a nitpicky observation-- they are not different 'breeds', but different species. A breed is a variation on the same species, as produced by human selection (dog breeds, horse breeds, etc).

[sampotter]

I know,I know. I used 'breed' more as of a figure of speech although one could argue that there is a bit of a blurry line between the large canid species in North America.. As some DNA studies have shown.

Edited December 18, 2013 by sampotter

[BizCT]

Jenn - from what I understand, the timber wolf or grey wolf is the same thing. Just another name for it based on geography location. Like a northeastern whitetail from NY or southeastern whitetail from Georgia.

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