Legally selling/trading a scary rifle?

[Fehyd643]

Here's the situation;

 

I am a medically disabled/retired veteran.  Due to my disability, my wife is set up as my fiduciary (I am deemed mentally unable to deal with finances). What that means is that I am flagged in the FBI database in such a way as I do not pass the Brady check.

 

A few years ago, my wife bought an AR15. Not for me, of course, as that would be illegal. The rifle has seen thousands of rounds at the range, and has taken down a few yotes and fox.

 

We don't want to register it in April, and I am simply no longer comfortable transporting it to ranges or hunting areas as I would not be the registered owner.  In short, I see no more enjoyment out of this rifle in the near future.

 

I currently own a Remington 700 SPSV 308 and a Mossberg 500 20ga.  I want to sell/trade my (wife's) AR for a shorter/lighter 308 for deer hunting.  I just don't know the legality of such a transaction at this time.

 

In short...  Can anyone assist me in the proper/legal procedure in selling and/or trading my AR15?  Is this something I can post here or on Craig's List?

 

I appreciate any help

 

Joshua

[Elmo]

I believe according to the SAFE act you cannot sell it to another person in NY state.  You can only sell it to someone living in one of the free states.

[Doc]

If you want reliable, credible information on how or if such a transaction can take place, I would suggest that you contact the NYS police and ask how that is currently done. Make sure that you specify that it is your wife's gun and that she is the one who wants to perform the sale or trade.

[Woodjr55]

You can sell it to any gun store that buys used guns if you really want to get rid of it but your going to next to nothing for it

[ants]

You can sell it to any gun store that buys used guns if you really want to get rid of it but your going to next to nothing for it

Gander Mountain will buy if and ship it to a Gander in another state, that is not run by  a little dictator/ King, and where the rifle is "legal" to possess. But they will only give you 50% of what its worth if you're lucky.

[Five Seasons]

Your story intrigues me

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[bubba]

I do not think it can be sold or bought  in NY.  Not even by someone trying to dupe the system or get set up.  And registration has went by on the 15th deadline.  Might be tough to sell it to a dealer even if they will take it or give you anything for it without that paperwork in hand.  Just my opinion

Edited February 18, 2014 by bubba

[hunter49]

   Thank you for your service!  Can't a FFl dealer sell  it for you  (your wife)?

[waterweasle]

I do not think it can be sold or bought  in NY.  Not even by someone trying to dupe the system or get set up.  And registration has went by on the 15th deadline.  Might be tough to sell it to a dealer even if they will take it or give you anything for it without that paperwork in hand.  Just my opinion

the ammo background checks were Jan 15th, registration is supposed to be april 15th, isn't it?

[bubba]

yes my bad thinking feb not april thank you. wishing it was  april I guess lol

[Ford]

You can sell it out of state.

You can sell it to a firearms dealer, or an LEO.

 

That are the options.

[jrm]

Another option is to modify the rifle. Stag Arms makes a stock that eliminates the "pistol grip."

 

There is also the ARMR2 device which can eliminate the "detachable magazine" definition.

 

The Stag modification (about $100) has supposedly been "approved" by the state and that configuration is being sold in NYS gun shops. The ARMR2 (about $50) is not an "officially approved" modification, but lawyers have offered legal opinions as to its ability to eliminate the registration qualification.

 

So, for between $50 and $100 your wife could get to keep her rifle without the need to register. Either modification would also allow her to sell the rifle inside NYS to another NYS resident.

 

FYI - I have NO affiliation with either manufacturer.

 

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you want a real legal opinion, contact a lawyer that specializes in this area. I suggest you do NOT contact the NYSP, as they are not lawyers either and have been know to provide wrong and/or contradictory information. Contacting them could also put your phone number (with name, address, etc) into their system. "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." and all that.

Edited February 18, 2014 by jrm

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Another option is to modify the rifle. Stag Arms makes a stock that eliminates the "pistol grip."

There is also the ARMR2 device which can eliminate the "detachable magazine" definition.

The Stag modification (about $100) has supposedly been "approved" by the state and that configuration is being sold in NYS gun shops. The ARMR2 (about $50) is not an "officially approved" modification, but lawyers have offered legal opinions as to its ability to eliminate the registration qualification.

So, for between $50 and $100 your wife could get to keep her rifle without the need to register. Either modification would also allow her to sell the rifle inside NYS to another NYS resident.

FYI - I have NO affiliation with either manufacturer.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you want a real legal opinion, contact a lawyer that specializes in this area. I suggest you do NOT contact the NYSP, as they are not lawyers either and have been know to provide wrong and/or contradictory information. Contacting them could also put your phone number (with name, address, etc) into their system. "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." and all that.

If he got rid of any if the evil features, the mag modification wouldn't be required. Right? Would be no different than any semi auto mag fed rifle.

[jrm]

The law requires registration for an "assault weapon." That is defined as a semi-auto with a detachable magazine plus one cosmetic feature from a specific list of features.

 

If you had a NYS compliant rifle before the 'safe' act was passed, the most difficult part to reconcile with the new law is the pistol grip. That's why Stag (and others) have been working on  options to eliminate the grip. Without _any_ "evil" features, you don't have an "assault" weapon and thus you don't have to register.

 

On the other side is a mod like the armr2. That changes the rifle to a fixed magazine (as opposed to removable magazine) rifle. This, in theory, allows you to keep "evil" features such as the pistol grip and not do major alterations to the rifle.

 

For "no registration" you have to do one of two things:

 

1. change the magazine to be non-detachable (theoretically, you could also weld it in place and make the rifle a top-loader). Remember that the magazine still has a max capacity of 10 rounds.

 

OR

 

2. keep the magazine as detachable and remove ALL "evil" features shown on the state's list.

 

 

If you do not modify your detachable magazine rifle with one or more "evil" features, NYS says you have an "assault" rifle. As on Jan 2013, you are unable to sell, gift or otherwise transfer that rifle to another regular person in NYS. You can only sell to an FFL (for re-sale out of state), sell out of state or surrender the gun to the NYSP. If you keep the rifle, you have until 4/15/13 to register it or be deemed a "criminal" by NYS. Even if registered, you can never transfer the rifle (not to your wife, not to your child when you die). Upon your death, your heirs can only surrender, sell out of state or sell to an in state FFL for re-sale out of state.

 

 

 

[Fehyd643]

Thank you all for your input.  All this just verifies to me that keeping the rifle is simply not worth the headache involved.  I have a local FFI that has a good reputation.  I will take it to him and see what he says.  I'm seeing black rifles configured like my wife's go for ~1k on gunbroker and other online auction sites.  If I can get 5-600 (enough for a short 308 like the Ruger American Compact and some ammo) I'll be ok.  Not exactly happy, but ok.  My main concern is just following all the legalities in selling/trading my baby.  err... my wife's baby.

[Fehyd643]

Your story intrigues me Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

The nature of my injury was a car accident that resulted in epilepsy. (my wife and I both deployed to the desert, and I get hit by a car on Ft. Drum...  The irony!)

 

My seizures went uncontrolled for 3 years, and much of that time was spent in the hospital.  Due to that, my retirement required that my wife become my fiduciary. The law that makes this a flag for the Brady check is geared towards mentally unstable veterans (PTSD) that are deemed unfit to own a firearm. Basically, if you cant control your finances, you can't control a weapon.  A bit of a stretch, but I understand where the flag comes from.  My case is completely different, but the results are the same.

 

There is a system in place that would allow me to contest the flag, but this would run the risk of messing with my benefits. I am 100% disabled, and I simply cannot risk my benefits being messed with.  Not in this day and age!

 

 

Joshua

[Five Seasons]

That's horrible and sorry to hear about your accident. Thank you for your service.

[gfdeputy2]

first things first Thank You for your service

I am assuming in NY he still has to go through an FFL to sell out of state or can you do a private sale in NY still?

[Jeremy K]

As far as the magazine goes, I believe the installation of a bullet button will get passed the magazine portion of the law . All the legal modifications in the world won't make a lick of different the first time you get pulled over by a non educated law officer, just the same as if you have an illegal rifle and the cop himself doesn't respect the safe act law and let's you go. All this crap is just another facet of invasion of our privacy, anything they can do to take a closer look.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

This sucks. Thanks for your service. Do you still live near Drum?  Have you ever entertained the idea of taking your, er..your wifes baby,your wife and yourself out of Ny state to a place where you can live the free life that you earned in the desert,for yourself and us all.  One can only imagine how many packed cars are crossing the.. You are leaving Ny State, ,signs as of late?

[jrm]

first things first Thank You for your service

I am assuming in NY he still has to go through an FFL to sell out of state or can you do a private sale in NY still?

 

All private sales in NYS must involve a background check according to the "safe" act. Effectively, this means the sale is going through an FFL. It applies to all guns, not just those now defined as "assault weapons."

 

 

As far as the magazine goes, I believe the installation of a bullet button will get passed the magazine portion of the law . All the legal modifications in the world won't make a lick of different the first time you get pulled over by a non educated law officer, just the same as if you have an illegal rifle and the cop himself doesn't respect the safe act law and let's you go.

You are probably correct about the bullet button, but I have also heard talk that NYS is _not_ recognizing that as a valid device to avoid AW classification. It is very confusing and you are 100% correct - it doesn't make a bit of difference when you are stopped by a cop who is likely just as confused as we are.

Probably the safest mod out there is the stock/grip replacement from a place like Stag. If these are indeed being sold at NYS gun stores, you can be fairly sure that meet any qualification. I am also led to believe that the NYSP has "signed off" on these... obtaining a copy of that document and carrying it with you would _likely_ avert any problems if stopped.

The whole situation is crap and I don't agree with any of it. We shouldn't have to jump through hoops like this. I am just trying to point out possible ways the OP can avoid selling their gun (as a loss, no less) and stay legal. With any luck, this mess will be struck down by the courts (eventually). The recent 9th circuit decision in CA hints there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited February 18, 2014 by jrm

[Fehyd643]

I'm now in the Rochester area. When my kids head out (ROTC and Enlisted) we plan on moving to tx. Hopefully in the next 3 years I will be hog hunting with a new AR.

It will be nice to kill my own pork to mix with my own venison!  

This sucks. Thanks for your service. Do you still live near Drum?  Have you ever entertained the idea of taking your, er..your wifes baby,your wife and yourself out of Ny state to a place where you can live the free life that you earned in the desert,for yourself and us all.  One can only imagine how many packed cars are crossing the.. You are leaving Ny State, ,signs as of late?

 

[ants]

Thank you for your service…Your best bet may be to buy the conversion stock that makes the rifle 100% legal in NY State. Its uglier than hell but totally legal.

Good luck…..

Edited February 18, 2014 by ants

[Fehyd643]

Thanks for all of your great input!

 

So, if I legalize the AR and sell it myself, can I also sell the "evil" parts separately? 

 

Another option is to modify the rifle. Stag Arms makes a stock that eliminates the "pistol grip."

 

There is also the ARMR2 device which can eliminate the "detachable magazine" definition.

 

The Stag modification (about $100) has supposedly been "approved" by the state and that configuration is being sold in NYS gun shops. The ARMR2 (about $50) is not an "officially approved" modification, but lawyers have offered legal opinions as to its ability to eliminate the registration qualification.

 

So, for between $50 and $100 your wife could get to keep her rifle without the need to register. Either modification would also allow her to sell the rifle inside NYS to another NYS resident.

 

FYI - I have NO affiliation with either manufacturer.

 

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. If you want a real legal opinion, contact a lawyer that specializes in this area. I suggest you do NOT contact the NYSP, as they are not lawyers either and have been know to provide wrong and/or contradictory information. Contacting them could also put your phone number (with name, address, etc) into their system. "Anything you say can and will be used against you..." and all that.

 

[jrm]

Thanks for all of your great input!

 

So, if I legalize the AR and sell it myself, can I also sell the "evil" parts separately?

Remember that I am NOT a lawyer and am simply someone who has been actively following these changes since last January.

If you alter a gun so that it no longer fits the NYS definition of "assault weapon" you should be free to sell it privately, gift it to a someone or leave it to your heirs. Selling (and possibly gifting, I'm don't have the law to look it up right now) any gun in NYS requires a background check, even on private sales.

If you alter a rifle by, for example, changing the stock I see no reason why you cannot resell the old stock without any restriction. That is just a "part" and not regulated or illegal on its own. The way it has been explained to me, the lower receiver (the part with the serial number on it) is the "gun." The rest is just parts. It is only when you attach those parts to the "gun" that it becomes an issue.

I am not going to take a guess on how it would work for an AR upper on its own with a threaded barrel and bayonet lug. That might be looking for trouble. But I would think that having a previously legal stock (i.e. not collapsible) or just a lose pistol grip is not a problem. I am pretty sure you can still buy items like this online.

Again, this is all an educated guess. If in doubt, speak with a lawyer (who, by the way, will also give you an educated guess - although his guess is considerable more educated that mine).

Edited February 18, 2014 by jrm