QDM Meeting with Neighbors

[Zag]

How can you not be a fan of QDM or QDMA?? Across the board it should be a no brainer. Its amazing there is even a debate. Crazy id say!!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

A losing battle? You arent paying attention, are you? QDM practices are growing outside of fences at a much faster rate than your high fence places are. In fact, one could make a pretty viable argument as to why high fence operations that grow bucks for shooting, are at the root of most of whats wrong with the hunting industry today, and cwd doesnt even need to be brought into the conversation.

Your industry is all about the money, thats it, lining your own pockets. The QDMA is all for research, furthering our sport through political means and promoting our sport to youth and other new comers. While i dont have a problem with capitalism, i do take issue with profiteering by genetically mutated freaks of nature, and the black eye it gives the sport i love. Now dont take that to mean i have a problem with all deer farming, just the places that tie a 200" 2 year old to a post and have some ding dong cough up a wad of cash to blast him.

Anyway, back on topic...

Really?  Did you read this in Kip's handbook or what?  As we sit here year after year and watch the older hunters hang up their guns and watch all the fat kids sitting on the couch eating pizza and playing video games you think QDMA will/is growing? Good One.

 But know on the other hand there is not enough bucks in any state to satisfy the demand for high fence needs. Also the fastest and most profitable industry in the country such was just shown with 81 animals selling for a record 1.7 million. Yeah there's no demand!

 Anyways lets read another post of the thoughts from a QDMA website user.  Interesting reading i would say.

 

Join Date: Apr 2013

Location: WI

Posts: 922

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by smsmith 

I used to attempt to defend QDMA and their (mistaken) stance on this topic in CWD areas....not anymore. I was wrong...and so are they

I'm not defending or damning them for it. Merely trying to look at it from a detached, dispassionate distance.

It appears they've really painted themselves into a corner on this one. It sure appears that they sell themselves as a sound science based organization, but science is starting to say that the cornerstone of what they are pushing for is bad. They have a backdoor they can still slip out of, by stating that they changed their stance based on new scientific findings, but they've recently stacked a few chairs against that by supporting APRs in MI. At the same time, it's almost irrelevant that they have. If one is going to be honest, the majority of members would drop out of QDMA if the trophy buck aspect was removed, unless it was done with a wink and a nod.

It's not an enviable position to be in, anyway you look at it. That's assuming I'm right about this all coming to a head again and more deer biologists pushing back against restricted buck harvests. I sure could be wrong, on both fronts

 

Edited March 26, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[dbHunterNY]

lol.... I'm new to QDMA not so much to QDM, TDM, and whatever concepts.  I've surrounded myself with the stuff.  it's something I like.  all I know is what was presented by the QDMA biologist Matt Ross was very helpful and would solve many problems we have in this immediate area of NY.  The Upper Hudson River Valley branch and Otter Creek Co-op members who were there seem to be following sound QDM practices with the best intentions of helping out the hunting, deer, and habitat in general around here.  Seem like great people with intentions that match what I'm looking for.  Hopefully the next meeting gets here quick so I can post the outcome.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Four Seasons. Two things. Taking quotes on the site as a stance of the organization is a bit of a stretch. The organizations stance on any type of AR's is very clear. The area and the hunting public would have to buy in before they would support any. Up until that point they favor education and a voluntary approach.

 

Also there membership is increasing and at an all time high.

[nyantler]

How can you not be a fan of QDM or QDMA?? Across the board it should be a no brainer. Its amazing there is even a debate. Crazy id say!!

The same way you can not be a fan of mandatory AR's or killing does... not everyone has the same opinion on the direction of deer hunting and where an idea or organization is taking it... some just don't have the same goals for deer management. Obviously there are many that are not a fan.. if so QDM would be a statewide program... be happy it has come this far and more hunters are in tune with the idea of good herd management.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Four Seasons. Two things. Taking quotes on the site as a stance of the organization is a bit of a stretch. The organizations stance on any type of AR's is very clear. The area and the hunting public would have to buy in before they would support any. Up until that point they favor education and a voluntary approach.

 

Also there membership is increasing and at an all time high.

Taking quotes from members on their stance is the only TRUE way to see the TRUTH on the subjects. If you read their posts the QDMA are losing many members. I sure dont see a big rush to join, even on this site.

 

 I have no problem with QDM. Like i said, I use it every year to grow the biggest bucks my property will grow. The problem i have is many not telling the whole story. In their minds and hearts they may think its for the future and so on of what they say but when the rubber hits the road, 99% of them are farming for the biggest,highest scoring buck in their neck of the woods and it is still all about the inches of bone on that head.  For a qdma member to also be an outfitter that takes peoples money for a chance to kill A BUCK WITH AT LEAST 130 INCHES OF BONE ON HIS HEAD. You tell me thats all about the hunt and mature bucks? You screw up and kill a mature buck with only 115 INCHES on his head and your fined.

 The list goes on. Show it and tell it like it is. Farming practice for a healthy herd that fits the land and growing the biggest buck you can hold on that property.

 If you are practicing true qdma and only kill mature bucks on your property then 99% of Ny state hunters would never kill a buck.  How many 31/2 year old bucks you got runnin around on your qdm practice land? 

Edited March 26, 2014 by Four Season Whitetails

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The same way you can not be a fan of mandatory AR's or killing does... not everyone has the same opinion on the direction of deer hunting and where an idea or organization is taking it... some just don't have the same goals for deer management. Obviously there are many that are not a fan.. if so QDM would be a statewide program... be happy it has come this far and more hunters are in tune with the idea of good herd management.

Exactly Joe, Doesn't make either wrong or either bad for the most part. I get so sick of the "it has to be my way" opinions. If you see something that you would like to see done differently, then get involved no matter what the issue. Like the majority of the population  there are many that would like to complain and few that will do something about it.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[WNYBuckHunter]

 

Really?  Did you read this in Kip's handbook or what?  As we sit here year after year and watch the older hunters hang up their guns and watch all the fat kids sitting on the couch eating pizza and playing video games you think QDMA will/is growing? Good One.

 But know on the other hand there is not enough bucks in any state to satisfy the demand for high fence needs. Also the fastest and most profitable industry in the country such was just shown with 81 animals selling for a record 1.7 million. Yeah there's no demand!

 Anyways lets read another post of the thoughts from a QDMA website user.  Interesting reading i would say.

 

Join Date: Apr 2013

Location: WI

Posts: 922

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by smsmith 

I used to attempt to defend QDMA and their (mistaken) stance on this topic in CWD areas....not anymore. I was wrong...and so are they

I'm not defending or damning them for it. Merely trying to look at it from a detached, dispassionate distance.

It appears they've really painted themselves into a corner on this one. It sure appears that they sell themselves as a sound science based organization, but science is starting to say that the cornerstone of what they are pushing for is bad. They have a backdoor they can still slip out of, by stating that they changed their stance based on new scientific findings, but they've recently stacked a few chairs against that by supporting APRs in MI. At the same time, it's almost irrelevant that they have. If one is going to be honest, the majority of members would drop out of QDMA if the trophy buck aspect was removed, unless it was done with a wink and a nod.

It's not an enviable position to be in, anyway you look at it. That's assuming I'm right about this all coming to a head again and more deer biologists pushing back against restricted buck harvests. I sure could be wrong, on both fronts

 

 

The QDMA is growing, just look at the membership numbers, amount of active branches popping up, etc. Its easy to see. Harvest numbers on older bucks are up almost across the board. In many states, hunter numbers are starting to trend back up, but time will ultimately tell on that. QDM practices have gained traction everywhere.

 

I quite honestly dont care what a few people on the QDMA forums have to say. Who knows who they are anyway? Deer farmers, people with an axe to grind with them for whatever reason? Who knows. The internet is a fun place to try and hide behind a keyboard and fling poo, isnt it?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Taking quotes from members on their stance is the only TRUE way to see the TRUTH on the subjects. If you read their posts the QDMA are losing many members. I sure dont see a big rush to join, even on this site.

 

You couldnt be more wrong, but keep telling yourself that, if it makes you sleep better at night.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

.

 The list goes on. Show it and tell it like it is. Farming practice for a healthy herd that fits the land and growing the biggest buck you can hold on that property.

 If you are practicing true qdma and only kill mature bucks on your property then 99% of Ny state hunters would never kill a buck.  How many 31/2 year old bucks you got runnin around on your qdm practice land? 

not sure on the number but I see them every year

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You couldnt be more wrong, but keep telling yourself that, if it makes you sleep better at night.

Dude you have to be ***** me!!!!  Go look at their website. Guys have been on there for years and about live on that site like you do here. Read the words!  Please show the numbers you so proudly speak of.

 

How many true mature bucks have you killed in your lifetime in qdma style. Please do show!   Im sure i have my answer and if any of you plan on killing to many more bucks that believe in true qdma mature bucks only had better lower your standards down to 21/2 years old and then you might kill a buck every 3 or 4 years if your lucky.

 

You my friend have no room to even think about talking about sitting behind your keyboard.  But i believe you just found that out on here not so long ago!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Dude you have to be shitting me!!!!  Go look at their website. Guys have been on there for years and about live on that site like you do here. Read the words!  Please show the numbers you so proudly speak of.

 

How many true mature bucks have you killed in your lifetime in qdma style. Please do show!   Im sure i have my answer and if any of you plan on killing to many more bucks that believe in true qdma mature bucks only had better lower your standards down to 21/2 years old and then you might kill a buck every 3 or 4 years if your lucky.

 

 

What is QDMA style?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Dude you have to be ***** me!!!!  Go look at their website. Guys have been on there for years and about live on that site like you do here. Read the words!  Please show the numbers you so proudly speak of.

 

How many true mature bucks have you killed in your lifetime in qdma style. Please do show!   Im sure i have my answer and if any of you plan on killing to many more bucks that believe in true qdma mature bucks only had better lower your standards down to 21/2 years old and then you might kill a buck every 3 or 4 years if your lucky.

 

You my friend have no room to even think about talking about sitting behind your keyboard.  But i believe you just found that out on here not so long ago!

 

First off, QDMA is an organization, not a style, or management system. Second, my goals for my harvests have nothing to do with what you deem as a "true QDM style". My goals are based on many factors, including what makes me happy. We have quite a few 3 1/2+ year old bucks running around the area I hunt. When I get to a point where I want to set my bar at 3 1/2 or better, I will. Would I like to shoot a giant? Sure I would. Is that the only reason I hunt? Hell no.

 

I was just at the northeast Regional Summit (which our branch put on) and was given the membership numbers. I dont remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but Ill see if I cant get them for you. Maybe Culver or WesternNY remembers exactly what they were.

 

Exactly what did I find out? Please, clue me in. I dont hide behind anything. Want to come see me, or talk to me in person? Ive posted many times about events Im at. Feel free to stop by, Ill tell you the same opinions to your face as I would on here.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

First off, QDMA is an organization, not a style, or management system. Second, my goals for my harvests have nothing to do with what you deem as a "true QDM style". My goals are based on many factors, including what makes me happy. We have quite a few 3 1/2+ year old bucks running around the area I hunt. When I get to a point where I want to set my bar at 3 1/2 or better, I will. Would I like to shoot a giant? Sure I would. Is that the only reason I hunt? Hell no.

 

I was just at the northeast Regional Summit (which our branch put on) and was given the membership numbers. I dont remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but Ill see if I cant get them for you. Maybe Culver or WesternNY remembers exactly what they were.

 

Exactly what did I find out? Please, clue me in. I dont hide behind anything. Want to come see me, or talk to me in person? Ive posted many times about events Im at. Feel free to stop by, Ill tell you the same opinions to your face as I would on here.

Well i guess we can agree on one thing.  In the mean time we will just keep watching and waiting for this big explosion of any qdma groups growin.  You know, Like the ones that have not over the last 20 years and with less hunters coming on the scenes every year im sure it wont happen anytime soon!  AGAIN.    

 

But do feel free to watch other things grow up around you.

[dbHunterNY]

i think you all should start a hunting co-op together and then have someone film it for a reality TV show. lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well i guess we can agree on one thing.  In the mean time we will just keep watching and waiting for this big explosion of any qdma groups growin.  You know, Like the ones that have not over the last 20 years and with less hunters coming on the scenes every year im sure it wont happen anytime soon!  AGAIN.    

 

But do feel free to watch other things grow up around you.

who said anything about an explosion? I have seen the growth charts fro memberships and it appears to be a constant uphill trend since the mid 1990's what do you have to back up a membership decline, beside the comments of forum members?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Dude you have to be ***** me!!!!  Go look at their website. Guys have been on there for years and about live on that site like you do here. Read the words!  Please show the numbers you so proudly speak of.

 

How many true mature bucks have you killed in your lifetime in qdma style. Please do show!   Im sure i have my answer and if any of you plan on killing to many more bucks that believe in true qdma mature bucks only had better lower your standards down to 21/2 years old and then you might kill a buck every 3 or 4 years if your lucky.

 

You my friend have no room to even think about talking about sitting behind your keyboard.  But i believe you just found that out on here not so long ago!

Again....what is qdma style?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well i guess we can agree on one thing.  In the mean time we will just keep watching and waiting for this big explosion of any qdma groups growin.  You know, Like the ones that have not over the last 20 years and with less hunters coming on the scenes every year im sure it wont happen anytime soon!  AGAIN.    

 

But do feel free to watch other things grow up around you.

 

You and I actually agree on quite a few things. Theres actually a new branch in the process of being created in Eastern NY now. The NY State chapter has been resurrected recently, with all new leadership. You should be the one keeping your eyes peeled for things growing around you, honestly.

 

BTW, what was I shown recently? You keep dodging questions people are asking you.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You and I actually agree on quite a few things. Theres actually a new branch in the process of being created in Eastern NY now. The NY State chapter has been resurrected recently, with all new leadership. You should be the one keeping your eyes peeled for things growing around you, honestly.

 

BTW, what was I shown recently? You keep dodging questions people are asking you.

I believe people made it clear on the way you play with the mod card and sling crap in your own little style.  

 

 Its no big deal because it means nothing to most people.  You say your thing and we say ours. 

 I see whats growing around me and that has nothing to do with qdma but does includes the 6 new farms in Ny state that i helped start, just shy of 2200 acres of new business for Ny state.  Life is good for some and getting better for many!  Enjoy!

[WNYBuckHunter]

I believe people made it clear on the way you play with the mod card and sling crap in your own little style.  

 

 Its no big deal because it means nothing to most people.  You say your thing and we say ours. 

 I see whats growing around me and that has nothing to do with qdma but does includes the 6 new farms in Ny state that i helped start, just shy of 2200 acres of new business for Ny state.  Life is good for some and getting better for many!  Enjoy!

 

I asked those people to provide some proof of the way I "play the mod card" and sling crap. None was ever provided. I attribute it to hurt feelings and poo flinging from the usual suspects. Not that I give a rats patoot what said people think on the subject, or me for that matter. (BTW, notice I edited out your cursing a few posts ago without slapping your hand in any way what-so-ever? Geeze, Im such a heavy handed mean guy, arent I?)

 

Wow, 6 new farms for rich guys with no hunting skills? You go boy. lol

 

 

 

Yep, thats a little flinging back at ya hahahaha

[WesternNY]

First of all some facts

 

Currently the QDMA is at the highest Membership total ever in its young 25 year history.

 

Four Seasons quotes from the QDMA Website is from the Forums on the QDMA Site.  Just like on here there are guys on that site that sling mud and currently are unhappy or whatever.  The latest quote is from ssmith... he is a member, but anyone and everyone can go on there and post    He is currently unhappy with some issues.  It Doesnt represent the organizations leadership or membership at large.   Maybe I should find a deer farmer forum, find a negative quote from one, post it on here as the gospel.  He is not leadership, is not involved in a branch, is not a volunteer he is a member... it is useless to pull stuff from a forum.

 

Interest in the QDMA or practicing some form of QDM is at an all time high, people realize its benefits to improve habitat and give back.

 

Four Seasons while he says he likes QDM and doesnt hate QDMA is upset on the Stance the QDMA took on deer farms.  I understand his frustration give his passion, investment, and future on his whitetail farm.  

 

I can get an exact number on memberships if you want, in NY we have over 1900 alone.  Not a huge number but it is increasing.

I know and speak the truth.  My Name is Mike Edwards. I am the President of the Gr. Rochester S. Tier Branch and President of the QDMA NY State Advisory Council.   I will speak to anyone on the phone or in person.  You can PM me here, or get my full contact info from the QDMA website. 

 

I have even spoken to Four Seasons in the past on the phone.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

First of all some facts

 

Currently the QDMA is at the highest Membership total ever in its young 25 year history.

 

Four Seasons quotes from the QDMA Website is from the Forums on the QDMA Site.  Just like on here there are guys on that site that sling mud and currently are unhappy or whatever.  The latest quote is from ssmith... he is a member, but anyone and everyone can go on there and post    He is currently unhappy with some issues.  It Doesnt represent the organizations leadership or membership at large.   Maybe I should find a deer farmer forum, find a negative quote from one, post it on here as the gospel.  He is not leadership, is not involved in a branch, is not a volunteer he is a member... it is useless to pull stuff from a forum.

 

Interest in the QDMA or practicing some form of QDM is at an all time high, people realize its benefits to improve habitat and give back.

 

Four Seasons while he says he likes QDM and doesnt hate QDMA is upset on the Stance the QDMA took on deer farms.  I understand his frustration give his passion, investment, and future on his whitetail farm.  

 

I can get an exact number on memberships if you want, in NY we have over 1900 alone.  Not a huge number but it is increasing.

I know and speak the truth.  My Name is Mike Edwards. I am the President of the Gr. Rochester S. Tier Branch and President of the QDMA NY State Advisory Council.   I will speak to anyone on the phone or in person.  You can PM me here, or get my full contact info from the QDMA website. 

 

I have even spoken to Four Seasons in the past on the phone.

Lets not get to carried away with the thought that QDMA,s stance against deer farms has had any negitive impact against its growth at all. That beast is way to big for a little group like qdma to even put a dent in. Lets face it, if the tree hugging animal lovers could not touch it then what makes ya think that little group will?

 I like the part where QDMA raffles off high fence hunts to put money in their own jar.  Yeah save your breath about the breeding! like it really matters if a buck blows the semen up the skirt of the doe or a person does. Its still high fence.

 

I myself cant wait now untill QDMA blows up and starts to pedal backwards on this CWD crap they have been trying to pin on the deer farmer for years.

 Now they say all antlered bucks are carriers and the mature buck is the biggest factor in the movement off CWD. Well now that is going to take QDMA's way off doing things right off the block. Now if you let any antlered buck walk you are letting CWD walk along with it. There will be no more age groups and it will be kill all bucks on sight. If you are doing whats right and best for the animal and the land.( Thats QDMA remember)

 

Now you will start seeing the QDMA group say the same things that the states that are losing hunters and money because of the big scare they tried to pin on farming with CWD. Now its....Oh dont worry about CWD its now not what we once thought it was and it has no effect on humans so please do not be afraid to go in the woods hunting and take deer.

 Every time the words comes out of QDMA" or the states mouth is that CWD came because of the farmers but then in their next sentence the truth comes out when they say its high fence and not fair chase( The real truth that has them scared sh!tless that they are fighting a losing battle) and losing their old style ways of years gone by.

 Now people have choices and many thousands across the country are picking the later.

 But again i am all for some of QDMA.s way of thinking because thats how i grow those 200 inchers!

[WesternNY]

Again ....   I never said and either has the QDMA (to my knowledge) said their statement against deer farms was going cause the industry to collapse.   They see deer farming, in more particular the transport of deer across state borders as a threat to the wild deer herd.... they never said they were against high fenced hunts as long as legal and ethical.

 

I was at the National QDMA Convention in 2013 as well as others on the forums... I think they had one preserve hunt if I remember correctly.

 

The QDMA is trying to what is right for the protection of the deer herd, plain and simple.  Have they made mistakes, yes will they make more, yes.  Are they right to try to protect the herd from CWD, YES

 

Guys look here for yourself two links.   You can see for yourself where QDMA Stands.

 

 

http://www.qdma.com/news/captive-deer-breeding-legislation-overwhelmingly-defeated-during-2012-legis

 

http://www.qdma.com/news/faq-qdmas-stance-on-captive-deer-breeding

 

Name one organization that does more for the Whitetail and Whitetail hunters than the QDMA!

[WesternNY]

This pretty much sums it up what the QDMA is about.

 

Instead of wasting everyone's time slamming the QDMA about what it is doing, why not educate us on what you and the captive deer industry is doing for the wild deer herd and hunters who love them?

[WesternNY]

And Four Seasons your argument that it is QDMA VS Captive Deer Farms and how there is fear or competition is probably the silliest thing I have ever heard.

 

Apple and Oranges.....  Ask any hunter if they would rather hunt a wild 100% free animal vs Captive animal and we all know the majority is wild.  Sure you have clients, there is a market, there is one for herion too.  Doesn't make it right.