Tom King's statements. Thoughts?

[virgil]

If I were able to copy and paste, I would have attached the article from today's paper.  Just curious about everyone's thoughts regarding Tom King's (President of the NY Rifle and Pistol Association)comments.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

which paper Virgil?

[virgil]

The article i saw was in the NY Daily News.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/rifle-pistol-association-president-skip-pro-gun-rally-article-1.1739917

 

 

[RangerClay]

I read this more than a month ago.  The main reason he said he wasn't going was stated in the article. 

 

He also said Tuesday's rally will include people who are pushing other issues like hydrofracking, anti-abortion, and land owner rights.

"All worthy issues, but not 2nd Amendment issues!," King wrote. "We are a single issue advocacy group and our message becomes compromised with these other groups included."

[Culvercreek hunt club]

As NY's leading pro-2nd group the proper response should have been to take a clean up position in the speaking line up and correct anything the organization did not agree with and firmly state their stance. Not bail on the Rally.

I also don't agree with his view that rallies are not needed anymore. I believe they are needed even more now to let all the elected officials know we are still here and haven't forgotten. The legal fight does not decrease because the rallies take place.

Bottom line, as some on here have said, we are not going to win this alone. we need other focus groups to bring voters to the booth in support of a candidate other than Andy. We don't need to "publically" tie the two positions together and risk alienating voters because of that public teaming, but we need them there.

[tony m]

Mr. King might represent the majority of average Americans who have been re-educated away from history.  His comments point him in that direction.  I'm sure a sit down conversation topic'ed on core causes of rights infringement would help.

[Doc]

It's a delicate balance trying to incite an apathetic bunch like gun owners to political action without creating some kind of unruly mob that frightens all onlookers. Absolutely we have some fringe extremists in our ranks and some people that actually scare the rest of us with their rhetoric of hate and violence. We've seen it on these pages.

 

BUT.... advocating silencing and abandoning demonstrations and backing off on our calls to action are not the kinds of answers we need from our leaders. I am happy that he acknowledges that we have some people who go too far. It is good that he is concerned about that and I wish he had ideas on controlling that end of the reactions without declaring retreat.

 

I must say that I am not super impressed with his statements. It is going to take some convincing of gun owners that we have a dedicated movement that they should join. It is necessary that people be convinced that this is a movement that can win and not just an exercise in sticking their necks out and then being abandoned by the leaders of our gun advocacy organizations at the very time when their inspiration is most needed. We have a real serious test of gun owner's rights coming up in a mere 7 months. We have a need for gun owners to come out to the polls as a unified, dedicated, one-issue block of voters. That is unprecedented, and now is not the time for any forms of retreat. What is at stake goes way beyond the Safe Act. We need to send a message to politicians that will last for decades. If we show signs of flagging dedication from our leaders, there is no doubt in my mind that we can look forward to a massive flurry of draconian gun laws that will make the safe act look very mild in comparison.

 

I've said it before. Cuomo has handed us a once in a lifetime rallying point. We cannot afford to squander it. King's remarks have been a giant step towards doing exactly that.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

He is right..Preaching to the choir.. Remember, We have 2 Ny's and the support of cement city will double the power of the hillside. Sad but so true. Numbers wont lie.

[Doc]

He is right..Preaching to the choir.. Remember, We have 2 Ny's and the support of cement city will double the power of the hillside. Sad but so true. Numbers wont lie.

So your answer is to simply throw in the towel and wait until they come to take the guns? You're absolutely within your rights to do that, but please forgive the rest of us who think gun ownership is worth a bit of a fight.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So your answer is to simply throw in the towel and wait until they come to take the guns? You're absolutely within your rights to do that, but please forgive the rest of us who think gun ownership is worth a bit of a fight.

No but i like to live in the real world. If the real world is not in Ny then there are many,many deer friendly states that wants you to keep a pistol on the front seat of your truck.  Been to Alabama as of late?

[Elmo]

I don't agree with King's decision to skip the rally but understand where he is coming from as far as trying to win over those in the middle.  You won't do it with threats and chest pounding.  I see it on this forum all the time.  The "you're either with us or against us" attitude.  Instead of adopting a "I see you're undecided.  Well let me explain calmly" attitude.  When you have 40% pro gun, 40% anti-gun, and 20% undecided.  You then tell the undecided "if you're not pro-gun then screw you!" while the anti's tell them "come join us and we will accept you with open arms" don't be surprised that it'll eventually be 40% to 60%.

[Doc]

No but i like to live in the real world. If the real world is not in Ny then there are many,many deer friendly states that wants you to keep a pistol on the front seat of your truck.  Been to Alabama as of late?

Do not confuse the real world with the world of a defeatist. Yes, if they have convinced you that you are beaten before you begin, then I guess you are.

 

Another thing that can send chills down the spine of a politician is even if we come close and they can imagine that given some other circumstances perhaps in the next elections, they will become the anti-gun politician that feels the wrath of the voters in ways that will cost them their jobs. There is something about a dedicated and determined large block of voters that shapes the political attitudes of the future even if they do not lose their election. Also do not ignore the fact that some of these guys have other factions beyond just gun owners that hate their guts over any number of issues. It's not just Cuomo vs gun owners.

 

But on the other hand if we have people preaching doom and gloom here and other places, it quickly becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as more and more gun owners stay away from the polls. Such defeatists attitudes merely do the work of the antis for them.

[Nomad]

He is right..Preaching to the choir.. Remember, We have 2 Ny's and the support of cement city will double the power of the hillside. Sad but so true. Numbers wont lie.

Yep and every Sunday the choirs feel pretty good about it !

Rallies keep .the base energized ,holds interest ,keeps groups active ,togather and informed. Get around like minded folks ,exchange thoughts and ideas on other events groups and plans.

At the very least Mr King should have kept his thoughts to himself and not in the media.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Funniest part of this whole thing is that HE ACTUALLY WENT TO THE RALLY!!!

[Elmo]

I don't know what's worst then.

 

Being a hypocrite for being a leader of a major gun advocacy group and then not supporting a major pro-gun rally

 

or

 

Being a hypocrite for saying you're not going to a major pro-gun rally and then actually going.

[Doc]

Is it possible that some creative editing was performed in this news article? Could it be some context was sacrificed in the interest of bias?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Is it possible that some creative editing was performed in this news article? Could it be some context was sacrificed in the interest of bias?

A little but not very much at all. The excerpts we directly from a letter he sent out to the membership and I believe was publicly distributed as well. I think I can pull it off his Facebook page if you want to see the entire thing

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Gun Owners of New York State
There is some discussion and finger pointing going on regarding the New York State Rifle & Pistol Associations (NYSRPA) decision not to be directly involved in anymore large rally’s; and rather than you hearing by rumor our reasons I thought I’d address the situation directly. The NYSRPA Board of Directors has decided that our time, efforts and assets are better utilized in the following ways:
• Funding the SAFE Act Law Suit to overturn this terrible law
• Registering voters
• Educating non voters on the importance of their vote and getting them to the polls
• Participating in small localized forums around the state where the message can be better heard
• Supporting our local groups to have their voices heard
• Supporting local grass root boots on the ground efforts
After much discussion this decision was reached for the following reasons:
• Since the large rally of February 28, 2013 ensuing rallies have dwindled in size. Not because gun owners have lost interest but because we all work and it is expensive to take a day off, pay to come to Albany and still be ignored by the downstate liberal politicians.
• The Legislators already know we are disturbed, don’t care and will not repeal the SAFE Act just because we fill West Park
• We are preaching to the choir. We have seen the same groups and the same people at every rally
• The rally on April 1, 2014 includes Frackers, Right to Lifers and Land Owner Rights Groups. All worthy issues but not 2nd Amendment issues! We are a single issue advocacy group and our message becomes compromised with these other groups included.
• Our voices are becoming more contentious and threatening
There have been many studies and surveys done regarding the population demographics of the people of this country and state our research tells us New York State is divided in this manner (Numbers rounded)
I--------------------------------I------------------------------------------------------I-------------------------------------------I
Rabidly Anti-Gun 22% Somewhere in between 46% Avidly Pro Gun 32%
Fellow gun owners I submit this to you for your consideration. We will never convert the 22% rabid anti-gunners, we don’t have to convert the 32% avid pro gunners but we must convert a sizable portion of the 46% of those somewhere in between if we want to retain our 2nd Amendment Rights long term. These are the soccer moms, the guys who say I’ve never shot a gun but would like to try it and the people worried about their safety. How do we do that? Not by standing on stage screaming obscenities at Cuomo and certainly at large rallies where people stand on stage, pound their chest and tell the attendees to prepare for war. That frightens the very people we want to attract to our side, the people who will insure 2nd Amendment Rights for our grandchildren.
Many people ask “Why don’t you cooperate or work with other groups”? We do work with other groups! Ask the Westchester County Firearms Owners Association, SAFE on Long Island, various County Conservation Federations throughout the state, NY2A and of course the NRA. However; we will not work with any group that we feel will be detrimental to our efforts to restore 2nd Amendment freedoms to New York State. We do not make threats, we do not tell people to prepare for war nor do we sell bumper stickers that proclaim “BALLOTS or BULLETS”. We don’t buy billboards we spend our money where it does the most good in the courts.
Speaking of the courts here is the latest information on our SAFE Act lawsuit: This is a tentative schedule of the appeals process: Appellant briefs and their replies should be done by mid-August 2014. There may be a CAMP conference in this case as they are common in the 2nd Circuit and are aimed at pre-appeal resolution. Oral arguments in the 2nd Circuit are generally scheduled approximately three months after the briefing is completed.
To date your NYSRPA has spent $426,000 on the SAFE Act Suit. As you know there have been many organizations advertising state wide and holding rallies, many of which we have taken part in and sponsored. At these rallies there have been many organizations holding raffles and collecting monies to help defray the legal costs of the SAFE Act suit. Of all those groups only to date only two have contributed any monies to the NYSRPA; these groups are NY2A and a small group run by a women named J.J. Smith.

 

[nyantler]

I like to think that preaching to the choir is what gets the choir talking more and more about the preacher to others...which makes the congregation larger... If the preacher stops preaching to the choir, nobody goes to church and the church dies. Preaching, to whom ever gets the word out and ensures the continued existence of the church.

 

Defeatism and apathy have been the bane of gun owners to this point.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I just like how for some its ok if peoples rights are being stepped on if it does not concern them but when it does become their turn they are all up in arm's.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I just like how for some its ok if peoples rights are being stepped on if it does not concern them but when it does become their turn they are all up in arm's.

I think based on the survey on the other thread shows many support deer farms but not so much for high fences hunts. So if you wanna grow cabbage or grow deer have at it. the disdain comes from the latter. We also don't have a right to take our cats and dogs into the front lawn and shoot them either. Some view it as the same. By the way. There is no constitutional right to that market the last I checked and don't go down the interstate commerce road

[Doc]

A little but not very much at all. The excerpts we directly from a letter he sent out to the membership and I believe was publicly distributed as well. I think I can pull it off his Facebook page if you want to see the entire thing

Well then it sounds like it is time to be firing off a few letters to Mr. King expressing some very heavy disappointment with his attitude and leadership. If he insists on being a shill for the anti-gun forces, he is not the person for a leadership position in a pro-gun organization.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I think based on the survey on the other thread shows many support deer farms but not so much for high fences hunts. So if you wanna grow cabbage or grow deer have at it. the disdain comes from the latter. We also don't have a right to take our cats and dogs into the front lawn and shoot them either. Some view it as the same. By the way. There is no constitutional right to that market the last I checked and don't go down the interstate commerce road

There is a right for private land owners. When your rights are being stepped on because of something that in reality nobody really has the answers for then there is a problem. Im not going to turn this thread upside down but when my rights as a farmer are stepped on over the same disease that is in the public owned deer in other state and not on farms in those states, then there is a problem.

 

Just the gun issue involves those that like to preach to others.  Its their turn to deal with it now!!!

 

 

As far as your farm comment, If high fence hunting was not so popular and growing so fast then there would be no need for deer farms.We supply the demand.

[Doc]

There is a right for private land owners. When your rights are being stepped on because of something that in reality nobody really has the answers for then there is a problem. Im not going to turn this thread upside down but when my rights as a farmer are stepped on over the same disease that is in the public owned deer in other state and not on farms in those states, then there is a problem.

 

Just the gun issue involves those that like to preach to others.  Its their turn to deal with it now!!!

 

 

As far as your farm comment, If high fence hunting was not so popular and growing so fast then there would be no need for deer farms.We supply the demand.

Is this something tat Tom King said ..... lol. How many threads do we need running at the same time about deer farms?