Rifles in NYS

[fasteddie]

bpb ------ Those dumbasses were not shooting at the berm . They were just having fun at the expense of putting others in danger . The berm could have been 30 feet high and it wouldn't have mattered . They were not shooting from the bench area . They were out onto the range .

[growalot]

ya ..and this is why I walk a hundred yrds into the woods to feed my chickens....ever increasing lack of self respect and respect of others...and the value of human life

[Pygmy]

Since rifles have been made legal here in Steuben County, I hear SO many less shots...

Instead of 5 shot volleys being the norm, you hear 1 shot... The occasional volley comes from the guys who are still using thier faithful old pumpkin slingers..

Nobody will ever convince me that that shotgunners spraying slugs all over the countryside is safer than  than hunters shooting 1 or 2 shots from scope sighted centerfire rifles..

Check out the stats... Most hunting accidents ( whether with rifle or shotgun) occur WITHIN effective shotgun slug range... Most often under 100 yards...

The old saw that rifles are unsafe because the bullets travel SO much farther doesn't hold water... The type of hunting accident where a projectile comes a long distance out of the blue and strikes someone is SO rare, that it is insignificant, and it could just as easily happen with a shotgun at 500 yards as a rifle bullet at 2000 yards..

I feel a lot safer sharing the woods with rifle hunters than I ever did with shotgun hunters...And I have been hunting deer here in NY since 1966....

[Doc]

Since rifles have been made legal here in Steuben County, I hear SO many less shots...

Instead of 5 shot volleys being the norm, you hear 1 shot... The occasional volley comes from the guys who are still using thier faithful old pumpkin slingers..

Nobody will ever convince me that that shotgunners spraying slugs all over the countryside is safer than  than hunters shooting 1 or 2 shots from scope sighted centerfire rifles..

Check out the stats... Most hunting accidents ( whether with rifle or shotgun) occur WITHIN effective shotgun slug range... Most often under 100 yards...

The old saw that rifles are unsafe because the bullets travel SO much farther doesn't hold water... The type of hunting accident where a projectile comes a long distance out of the blue and strikes someone is SO rare, that it is insignificant, and it could just as easily happen with a shotgun at 500 yards as a rifle bullet at 2000 yards..

I feel a lot safer sharing the woods with rifle hunters than I ever did with shotgun hunters...And I have been hunting deer here in NY since 1966....

There is nothing here that I can argue with.  I really don't have any facts to prove the case one way or the other. I do have some concerns, but no data that shows them to be valid. This is one of those things that I may develop an opinion at some point off in the future when we have some actual results. Right now, all of the rifle experiments in the more populated parts of the southern zone are relatively new. I'm not even sure how many hunters in these new rifle areas have actually gone out and invested in a new rifle. I also realize that at the present time, we are enjoying a relatively safe set of hunting seasons so we don't really have a whole lot of accidents to draw data from (fortunately). Let's see how it all holds up over time. Then maybe I can come up with an opinion that I can get a bit serious about. Heaven help us if we start coming up with rifle hunters that start picking up the rapid-fire habits that we often think are the sole trait of shotgunners.

Doc

[Pygmy]

There are plenty of areas in adjacent Pennsylvania  ( and other states) with similar population densities where rifles have been used for years with no catastrophic results..

It is simply  a change, and people are uncomfortable with change...

For Instance... Sunday hunting.... THE SKY IS FALLING ; THE SKY IS FALLING..!!..

Rifles in the Southern zone... THE SKY IS FALLING ; THE SKY IS FALLING..!!...

Legalizing Crossbows... THE SKY IS FALLING ; THE SKY IS FALLING...

In year or so after these changes, nothing will be much different and it will have been a NON -event....

[Doc]

Ah, a prophet. My crystal ball is broke, so I won't be making those predictions until several years have gone by and I have actual numbers and experience to look at. You never know, maybe the sky will fall ..... lol. I'll be honest, all we need is an incident like up in Swan Lake where the 4 year old girl was fatally shot in her grandparents livingroom by a deer hunter's rifle bullet, and you will hear Ross Perot's giant sucking sound as the politicians can't repeal that law fast enough. Logical reaction? ....... Probably not, but we know how the emotion of such an event would take over in an area where a rifle law was brand new. Especially in an area where anti hunters are just waiting for us to stub our toe. Right now I love jamming our safety record in the face of the anti hunters and the anti-gunners. I don't want anything to reverse that record. So I'll just wait until time proves the case before I start making too many predictions.

[Pygmy]

Okay, Doc..Hehehehe... Your point is well  taken, my friend... A prophet I AIN'T...<grin>..

An unsafe hunter is an unsafe hunter redgardless of what instrument he uses..

We'll just have to wait and see what happens... I'm getting too old and crotchety

to argue the point...

[Nomad]

Here's my thoughts . Yes rifle shots can go way farther .But when I hunt in rifle states it tends to be one shot.  In shotgun areas it empty the 1,100 or 870 .....  I bet the 2nd shot and beyond the shooter has no idea of whats down range !

[wztirem]

Since rifles have been made legal here in Steuben County, I hear SO many less shots...

Instead of 5 shot volleys being the norm, you hear 1 shot... The occasional volley comes from the guys who are still using thier faithful old pumpkin slingers..

Nobody will ever convince me that that shotgunners spraying slugs all over the countryside is safer than  than hunters shooting 1 or 2 shots from scope sighted centerfire rifles..

Check out the stats... Most hunting accidents ( whether with rifle or shotgun) occur WITHIN effective shotgun slug range... Most often under 100 yards...

The old saw that rifles are unsafe because the bullets travel SO much farther doesn't hold water... The type of hunting accident where a projectile comes a long distance out of the blue and strikes someone is SO rare, that it is insignificant, and it could just as easily happen with a shotgun at 500 yards as a rifle bullet at 2000 yards..

I feel a lot safer sharing the woods with rifle hunters than I ever did with shotgun hunters...And I have been hunting deer here in NY since 1966....

There is nothing here that I can argue with.  I really don't have any facts to prove the case one way or the other. I do have some concerns, but no data that shows them to be valid. This is one of those things that I may develop an opinion at some point off in the future when we have some actual results. Right now, all of the rifle experiments in the more populated parts of the southern zone are relatively new. I'm not even sure how many hunters in these new rifle areas have actually gone out and invested in a new rifle. I also realize that at the present time, we are enjoying a relatively safe set of hunting seasons so we don't really have a whole lot of accidents to draw data from (fortunately). Let's see how it all holds up over time. Then maybe I can come up with an opinion that I can get a bit serious about. Heaven help us if we start coming up with rifle hunters that start picking up the rapid-fire habits that we often think are the sole trait of shotgunners.

Doc

Shot gunners with rapid fire habits are more the exception than the rule. The majority of shot gun hunters,myself included are responsible hunters!

[Pygmy]

Yes, indeed, I hope the great majority of shotgun hunters are responsible...No offense to you or any other responsible hunters, shotgun or otherwise...

However, I have spent every opening day in the woods in NY since 1964, and many opening days in PA....Some mornings I have counted gunshots, until perhaps 10:00 am when I would get bored... In Steuben County before rifles were legalized, I would typically hear between 200 and 300 shots by 9;00 AM on opening day... A large percentage were volleys of 4-5 shots.. Since rifles were legalized, I might hear 40-50 shots in the same timeframe, MOSTLY single shots..There still seem to be lots of deer around... My conclusion is that with everyone using shotguns, there is a LOT more lead being flung around... So shotguns are supposed to be SAFER than rifles...??...

OOOPS.. There I go..I said I was not going to argue that any more.. Sorry <blush> It won't happen again...

[wztirem]

Yes, indeed, I hope the great majority of shotgun hunters are responsible...No offense to you or any other responsible hunters, shotgun or otherwise...

However, I have spent every opening day in the woods in NY since 1964, and many opening days in PA....Some mornings I have counted gunshots, until perhaps 10:00 am when I would get bored... In Steuben County before rifles were legalized, I would typically hear between 200 and 300 shots by 9;00 AM on opening day... A large percentage were volleys of 4-5 shots.. Since rifles were legalized, I might hear 40-50 shots in the same timeframe, MOSTLY single shots..There still seem to be lots of deer around... My conclusion is that with everyone using shotguns, there is a LOT more lead being flung around... So shotguns are supposed to be SAFER than rifles...??...

OOOPS.. There I go..I said I was not going to argue that any more.. Sorry <blush> It won't happen again...

Unfortunately this does happen, however there is no evidence to show that rifles are intrinsically safer to hunt with than shotguns. Its sad to say that there are too many irresponsible gun hunters out there, rifle hunters included, who take shots far beyond their capabilities.

[fasteddie]

I havn't hunted in the Rifle areas . The thing about shotguns is usually on opening day there is a fair amount of hunters . With the 4-5 shoy volleys , you can pretty much tell which direction the deer are running .  ??? .. ???

I usually take my 12 ga Winchester 1200 pump opening day and either the NEF Huntsman in-line or Contender 7-30 waters pistol the rest of gun season .

[Doc]

One thing we can probably say for sure is that bad or unsafe shooting habits are determined by the mentality of individual hunters ......... not the weapon they are using. I have never seen a normally careful hunter all of a sudden turn into a wild-eyed, drooling, maniac just because somebody put a shotgun in his hands. Most likely it doesn't happen the other way around either.  ;D

Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Do you guys think the style of weapon used has anything to do with it. I hunted with a group up north that did drvies from dawn to dusk. everyone in the group had a rifle and all were bolt actions. from my experience most of the guns I see carried in the shotgun woods are autos and pumps. now I am pretty good with a bolt (not patting myself on the back) but cycling a bolt on a deer is not as easy as a pump or a auto.

I know there are a lot of guys that will probably disagree with me but if I am trying to bring a rifle into the feild I am looking for accuracy...long range accuracy. To me that is bolt, falling block or single shot. the autos I have owned I sold because of their groupings beyond 250. I just see more bolts in the feild in rifle season and was wondering if you guys had the same experience.

[bubba]

I truly believe that the first five years of hunting, the only thing allowed should be single shot regardless rifle handgun or shotgun. You should also have to pass a field shooting test regarding accuracy and target identification, which should have to be recertified every 5 years. People with lots of cartridges in a firearm tend to shoot much more than making the first shot safe and clean killing.  After the first at a moving target which has been spooked, is not safe.  yeah a rifle bullet has the potential to travel much further.  Look at balistics of any rifle cartridge and see how quickly it drops causing it to hit the ground. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

My first deer gun was a 36" barrel single shot external hammer 12 ga...FULL CHOKE....one brass bead up front....Dad learned on it and gave it to me and told me after my first doe and buck he's get me a better gun..he did... a 20 year old east feild pump sold out of Montgomery wards...rattled like crazy but was glad to be rid of the full choke...THAT will teach you to not shoot any more than needed as a 16 year old kid...like getting kicked by a mule

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I agree with your concept bubba but I think as mentors,,,fathers or whatever we need to teach that to the kids coming up...I don't like any more regulations. Let's face it...even if they had to do that by law....it would go out the window if the group they hunted with didn't practice the same....5 years or not

[Doc]

Did you ever wonder when you hear those 5 rapid shots, just what the guy doing the shooting is seeing as far as a whats going on beyond the deer? Add to that a guy who is trying to take multiple fast shots and has a scope. Imagine how easy on any of his follow-up shots to all of a sudden see an orange suit just as the shot goes off. Scary stuff ...... eh? And you know what, there is nothing about a rifle that keeps a hunter of that mentality from doing that exact same thing, as someone with a shotgun in their hands. No difference at all. In fact there are no safety rules and attitudes that are one bit different with a rifle or a shotgun. There is one thing though. For the most part, the guy with the rifle can extend the consequences of his poor choices a bit farther.

Doc