Blackhorn 209 & Dirty Barrel

[JFB]

I'm a long time loose powder 777 user with my Encore and had excellent first shot (from clean cold barrel) consistency. But the down side is obviously having to carry and swab a wet patch and dry patch if a reload is needed. 

 

I purchased a T/C Triumph and trying the Blackhorn 209. I spoke to Blackhorn and they claim firing a primer fouls a clean barrel sufficiently but I still get the flyer on the first shot. I also spoke to a ML expert/author and he literally said they ONLY way to get consistent accuracy is to "fire one in the ditch" to get the dirty barrel. But when speaking to T/C directly, the strongly say to NEVER leave a barrel dirty for over a day as spent or unspent powder (even 209) is corrosive. 

 

So how in the heck do you Blackhorn guys do it? Seems you either have to fire a round the day of or day before the hunt, or plan to leave a barrel dirty for longer than I like. 

 

What am I missing???? 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Mine shoots pretty consistently with the BH209. The first second and third are pretty close to each other, after that they seem to drop a little.

[sbuff]

I fire bh209 from a clean barrel. Possibly bullet combo, it does require consistent seating pressure, and make sure your flash channel is clear of carbon.

 What primer you using

[JFB]

sbuff, I shoot Federal 209a as one of the recommended primers. I've also been cleaning the breech plug with fire channel brush. 

 

It's not that I won't kill the deer at 100 yards because the "flyer" is roughly 2"... but it bothers me to not group better. 

 

I even fired three primers from a clean/dry barrel but the first shot is still 2" off and the next two almost touch. 

[ants]

I have an old Knight inline. I use CCI 209's and Pyrodex pellets. I don't start to widen my pattern much, to speak of,  until the 4th or 5th shot. Even then its still way  in the kill zone.

[Ford]

My rifle shoots best with a round shot first as well. (BH209)

I have not had a problem with taking the first shot, loading "dirty" and leaving it that way for a week. So far with the BH 209 there have been no problems for me. I just clean it after a week or so.

[sbuff]

Maybe try going up or down in your charge by five grains , it does burn hotter then t7 if I recall.

[stillhunter]

I shoot 209 in my encore through a clean barrel. I find that I tighter grouping by weighing the charge. I shoot a 100g volumetric which weighs out at 70g. The conversions are on their web sight.

[phade]

Try CCI 209M primers and maybe look for a sabot/bullet combo. So many things impact the firing process that you can't be married to one component without the possibility to sacrifice or make changes.

 

For me, it's BH209. If I need to find another primer, or bullet/sabot combo, I will. There's plenty of them that will work well, but powders are limited, and BH209 carries the most benefit for my use. As a result, I'm willing to make changes. I shoot the SSTs, but strongly prefer the Harvester line of bullet/sabot combos. They don't seat as well in my Vortek UL and I would also get the occassional first shot flyer. The SSTs load smoothly, but are a tighter fit for some reason and I don't get that flyer issue.

 

Generally speaking my shots start walking between the 4th and 5th shot, shots 1-3 are generally tight.

Edited December 1, 2014 by phade

[JFB]

I plan to try Parker Ballistic Extreme in 300 gr and also Barnes Spitfire T-EZ. But man, those both are tough to find. Will also experiment with primer. Thx 

[Buckmaster7600]

My triumph loves 209 now, I drilled out the breach plug and use Rio primers it shoots every bullet I have tried most will group 5 shots around 2.5" @100yds abd that's starting with a clean barrel and not touching it between shots.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Buckmaster7600

[WNYBuckHunter]

I use Federal Shotgun Primers, give them a try, they work great for me.

[JFB]

Having a fun time (wink) remembering how hard it is to find things in stock. CCIm primers... or other popular ones seem out, backordered, etc. Tried Midway, cheaperthandirt, cabelas, basspro, all local rochester gun shops. Any other major distributors I'm not thinking of? 

[WNYBuckHunter]

IIRC I got mine at Biekirchs

If you can't find any and want to give them a try, let me know. I have a few I could give you.

[phade]

IIRC I got mine at Biekirchs

If you can't find any and want to give them a try, let me know. I have a few I could give you.

 

Same here...I have a couple packs and could spare plenty to get you through the season.

 

I got mine at Gander...would think either them or F and S would have it in stock.

Edited December 2, 2014 by phade

[JFB]

Appreciate it guys very much. A few interesting things... I called CCI and spoke to a lead technician and interestingly they said they are starting to see a trend where their CCIm does not ignite Blackhorn when it's brutal cold (he used 10 degrees as example). So he recommended the regular CCI 209 primer. I have not heard anyone else who's experienced this but I got it direct from CCI. 

 

On another matter, I figured out my new Triumph has an issue with the hinge pin area and it has "wiggle" or "slop" to it when it's broken open. Called T/C and they said to send in. Brought it to Pro Gun in victor and the gun smith tried to fix it but once I was home one shot caused the wiggle to return. Soooo new gun now needs to be sent back to T/C. Gonna use my tried and true Encore for now. Pro gun said he's got another one doing the same thing. Hope to use the Triumph for Ohio. 

[Jeremy K]

My dad and i both shoot BH209 and our loaders shoot the same ,dirty or clean ,cold or warm. 100g of BH ,federal shot 209 primers and 300g shockwaves.

 

Question for the OP - Are you getting any blow by from the breech plug ? Maybe the first shot is sealing up the plug ? Just a thought.

Edited December 9, 2014 by Jeremy K

[Buckmaster7600]

My triumph had the wiggles as well, after 3 trips back to TC and it not being fixed I have found that screwing out the breech plug the slightest bit fixes it.

[JFB]

Buckmaster7600, can you elaborate on what you mean? So instead of turning the breech plug all the way to the right snug, you stop short a touch? 

 

Also curious why you accepted this work around? Seems like they have a known problem and should be offering a better solution like a new riffle or swap to a different model. 

[Buckmaster7600]

Yes go all the way tight the back a tiny bit and it snugs right up. I will never buy a TC again they told me they have fixed it 3 times. Its a spare to my spare and doesn't get shot much and after getting it I have hated the fat grip.

[JFB]

Hmmm, were your "wiggles" when the action was broke open? I tried backing out the plug various amounts but regardless I still get the slop when it's broke open. 

[JFB]

And did you by chance have any trigger work done on your Triumph? I did, so I was wondering if that had anything to do with it (which the gun smith says no way). 

 

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

That little wiggle causes no issues with accuracy, my Encore does the same thing. If you are concerned about it, you can get an oversized hinge pin from E Arthur Brown that will snug it up.

[stillhunter]

Try making a index line across the top of the receiver and the barrel. If it keeps locking up the same with the lines lined up I don't see a problem.

[Buckmaster7600]

No mine wiggles closed. I have never noticed it open.