Would You Support a Blaze Orange Compromise?

[jjb4900]

I find it extremely interesting that there is not a single response to the question above.

 

What that seems to indicate is that most would take the shot after sundown  & probably don't unload their rifles & stop hunting the moment that sundown occurs. On the other end, how many wait until official sunrise to load their weapon?

 

The same scenerio would apply if one saw a trophy buck sneaking by 15 muniute before official sunrise. How many would watch it dsappear W/O shooting if there was ample light?

 

So, I can see some (ill conceived) logic to the resistance to wearing blaze orange in a trade off for the extra hour at the best times. Why give in to mandatory blaze orange if you are stretching the hours anyway right?

 

We are probably never going to see the change to legalizing what many are doing anyway because most politicains would be wringing the hands over the ill perceived increase in fatalities. If we throw them a bone by accepting mandatory reasonable blaze orange, they would be far more likely to make the change.

ok, I'll bite....I'd give myself a little leeway with shooting times, if we took 20 watches and checked times there would probably be quite a variance in times, and I don't have a smart phone or GPS and the last time I checked they aren't required......15 minutes? that's pushing it...you should already be walking out of the woods by then......and the problem is, not the shooting times, but the fact that "Trophy Buck" has to be "bait" that's thrown out there to catch everyone.

[Mr VJP]

Get caught "in the field" with a loaded weapon before sunrise or after sunset by a DEC officer & you will find out that in the eyes of the law, you are "hunting".

 

I think the same applies to a nocked arrow.

 

 

I don't find that in writing anywhere in the game laws.  People can hunt coyote 24 hours a day.

[wildcat junkie]

Well as I have said come to my area, where people have brains enough to know what they are shooting at. A group of 8 all hunt my property and more hunt adjacent properties.  I have yet to see orange.  No one has been shot or even shot at. I am so glad I do not have to wear orange to feel safe when I am hunting.  I have said and will say again, it is not my job to make you safer.  Identify your target, do not use your scope to do so and hunt during legal hours legally.  Seems pretty simple to me.  Every year this same bunch if topics come up over 1 or 2 incidents.  I mean the only one so far this year, a moron shot at a deer lying on a cart.  I guess deer lie down and move around in the woods. The first comment was who fault was it I wonder of the guy was wearing orange, as if it was his fault he got shot. Sad the way the mind set of "hunters" has been molded by the big companies who sell all the gimmicks   Deer need names and 160 inches on their heads to be shooters and you need every new toy that comes out to be successful. A lot of supposed hunters have made a ton of money selling all their products to make you a better hunter.

Since I moved to the North country (6-A) there have been several fatalities. During the late '90s, early '00s, there was a shooting fatality around the Massena area almost every year. NEVER were the victims wearimg blaze orange. In one instance a church group was conducting a deer drive & one of the standers shot one of the drivers. IMO, that was just plain stupidity for people to conduct a drive W/O at least the drivers being clad in a blaze orange vest & hat as a minimum.

 

Are you saying that there is a magical increase in safety south of route 11 that doesn't exit North of it?

 

In one instance a father killed his son & was exonerated because he convinced the jury that he had shot at a deer jumping a fence & his son was beyond the deer along the same fence. Other evidence suported his claim. Blaze orange might have let that father know his son was in the line of fire.

 

Lately, I hunt public land in 6-C also & I wear a blaze orange hat.

Edited December 4, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Get caught "in the field" with a loaded weapon before sunrise or after sunset by a DEC officer & you will find out that in the eyes of the law, you are "hunting".

 

I think the same applies to a nocked arrow.

you are wrong. There is no law requiring it be unloaded or prohibiting it from being loaded.  Unless they see you shoot at an animal in a closed season (like deer after sunset or before sunrise) thee is NOTHING they can do. Especially if there are open seasons. Coyote as one example.

 

Technically I can carry a loaded firearm on my property all year round, day and night and need no justification to do so.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Culvercreek hunt club

[First-light]

I find it extremely interesting that there is not a single response to the question above.

 

What that seems to indicate is that most would take the shot after sundown  & probably don't unload their rifles & stop hunting the moment that sundown occurs. On the other end, how many wait until official sunrise to load their weapon?

 

The same scenerio would apply if one saw a trophy buck sneaking by 15 muniute before official sunrise. How many would watch it dsappear W/O shooting if there was ample light?

 

So, I can see some (ill conceived) logic to the resistance to wearing blaze orange in a trade off for the extra hour at the best times. Why give in to mandatory blaze orange if you are stretching the hours anyway right?

 

We are probably never going to see the change to legalizing what many are doing anyway because most politicains would be wringing the hands over the ill perceived increase in fatalities. If we throw them a bone by accepting mandatory reasonable blaze orange, they would be far more likely to make the change.

 

I would take the shot, always have and always will.

[bubba]

I  know the instance with the church group very well. I know the officer who investigated.  Know why he was shot?  They started the day with one saying I have a doe permit anyone see a doe shoot it.  Which is illegal.  This heightens the intensity and competition as well as is illegal. The shot was fired.  if I was to hunt with my son or any other person in a group, I know where they are.  In the first instance if the shooter had been hunting legally it never would have happened since he was not carrying a dmp and did no tidentify a target. he saw movement and shot.  Please give me a list of all these fatalities, since I hav elived and hunted in 6a all my life and I can recall 3 in about 35 years, which is still too many but saying several is a stretch. I own land in 6c and I have hunters all around me and have yet to be shot at.  You rely way too much on orange and not enough on common sense.

[bubba]

My last comment cuz this is getting like beating a dead horse again.  How do we in NY have as good as all and better than most states safety record without BO mandates?  We have no more fatalities or incidents than states that have BO mandates.  If anyone has an answer, i would like to know how that can happen. 

[First-light]

Common sense and BO go along way together. To answer you question I have in 30 years (in the southern zone) only ran into a handful of hunters that didn't wear blaze orange.

Seems BO is taken seriously in NYS.

[wildcat junkie]

I  know the instance with the church group very well. I know the officer who investigated.  Know why he was shot?  They started the day with one saying I have a doe permit anyone see a doe shoot it.  Which is illegal.  This heightens the intensity and competition as well as is illegal. The shot was fired.  if I was to hunt with my son or any other person in a group, I know where they are.  In the first instance if the shooter had been hunting legally it never would have happened since he was not carrying a dmp and did no tidentify a target. he saw movement and shot.  Please give me a list of all these fatalities, since I hav elived and hunted in 6a all my life and I can recall 3 in about 35 years, which is still too many but saying several is a stretch. I own land in 6c and I have hunters all around me and have yet to be shot at.  You rely way too much on orange and not enough on common sense.

 

 

1st of all, what makes you so damned arrogant to make a judgement on what I rely on or my level of common sense or lack thereoff?  Some may argue that your stance on blaze orange & some of your logic defies common sense so get  off your high horse.

 

Most traffic fatalities in minor crashes are because the ocupants weren't wearing seat belts. In 90% of those accidents they were breaking the law in some respect aside from ignoring the seat belt law. By your logc, since most of those deaths were caused by breaking the law, seat belt laws are not effective in the thousands upon thousands of fatalities prevented by mandatory seat belt use.

 

Are you saying without a doubt that blaze orange would not have prevented that church group fatality? If blaze orange prevented only 1/2 of hunting fataliies wouldn't that be worth the small inconvenience? To the best of my knowledge there has never been a deer hunting fataity in New York state involving the victim being mistaken for a deer while wearing blaze orange.

 

Deer hunting fatalites around the Massena area just from memory. 1999 River Road in Norfork. The church group fatality I mentioned. 2004 a co-worker  of mine shot & killed his uncle. The father/son incident near Canton I mentioned. A few years back the Deshaw fatality near Landon Bridge. I heard the police go by my house on that one. He was shot dead center just below the neck, right about where the orange vest would have been. Mr Deshaw did drywall finish work for me in 2003.

 

Just from memory, that's 5 that I can remember in less than 15 years, 3 of those between '99 & '04. I'm sure I have probably missed some.  So yeah, I think that means several. But the idea that blaze orange would have prevented at least 2 or 3 of those fatalities, if not all, is not sufficient enough for you to submit to wearing a blaze orange hat.

 

You know something else? You pick & choose what you respond to. You avoid questions that you don't want to answer just like any other narrow minded type that has a knee jerk reaction to anything different than what he believes.

Edited December 4, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

Common sense and BO go along way together. To answer you question I have in 30 years (in the southern zone) only ran into a handful of hunters that didn't wear blaze orange.

Seems BO is taken seriously in NYS.

Not in the North country it isn't. Aside from a co-worker & his dad & ANYONE that gets to hunt on my place, I have NEVER seen blaze orange on a hunter up here.

 

Blaze orange? It's it's a damned "librul" conspiracy just like science & evolution! The Gubmint wants you to wear it so they can spot & round up the gun luvin hunters to place them in FEMA death camps.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

In all fairness Wildcat, There is also no evidence or proof that those accidents would have been avoided if BO had been worn. We just can't make that correlation in the past tense.

[jjb4900]

can color blind people see blaze orange? and if not, and the law was passed, would they be exempt or unable to get a license?.......any thoughts?

[wildcat junkie]

In all fairness Wildcat, There is also no evidence or proof that those accidents would have been avoided if BO had been worn. We just can't make that correlation in the past tense.

Well if you play Russian Roulette there is no proof that a bullet is under the hammer either since it's only a 1 in 6 chance.

 

Take all of the fatalities where a hunter was mistaken for a deer & compare the odds of those that were wearing blaze orange against those that were not.

[wildcat junkie]

can color blind people see blaze orange? and if not, and the law was passed, would they be exempt or unable to get a license?.......any thoughts?

No, they can't see it as orange, but they also can't distinguise red from green but they still get driver's licenses.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

First off I wear orange during gun. If I happen to be in a stand without it, my vest is wrapped around the tree I am in. But let me ask you this. If we looked up numbers over the last few years and compared injuries and fatalities from tree stands and compare it to shooting accidents and the number is higher than the shootings, should we start lobbying to ban tree stand hunting? I mean if we can just save one life, wouldn't it be worth it?

[jjb4900]

No, they can't see it as orange, but they also can't distinguise red from green but they still get driver's licenses.

that's why the lights are set in a specific sequence from the top down.......red, yellow, green. They can see the lights and when they change, the color really doesn't matter.....kinda like a person who can't read, but they know what the pictures on street signs mean.

[wildcat junkie]

From the link below.

Hunters who wear hunter orange are seven times less likely to be shot. For example, during the past ten years, not one person who was wearing hunter orange was mistaken for game and killed in New York. On the contrary, big game hunters who were involved in firearm related incidents were not wearing hunter orange.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/9186.html

[wildcat junkie]

First off I wear orange during gun. If I happen to be in a stand without it, my vest is wrapped around the tree I am in. But let me ask you this. If we looked up numbers over the last few years and compared injuries and fatalities from tree stands and compare it to shooting accidents and the number is higher than the shootings, should we start lobbying to ban tree stand hunting? I mean if we can just save one life, wouldn't it be worth it?

How many of those tree stand incidents involved a second person? Therein lies the BIG difference.

Aside from that, how many of those injuries were people that understood & used PROPER fall restraint?

To me, not using a good fall restrain in a portable tree stand is a lot more foolish than hunting in big game gun season in full camo. I was always afraid of falling asleep & toppling out of the stand. I always made sure that my restaint kept my shoulders above the platform if I fell. Hanging from a poor restaint is often fatal too. I don't use portable stands anymore, too old & fat.

Edited December 4, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[jjb4900]

there's probably more accidental, non hunting related shooting death's in NY every year then there is hunting related (probably more then in the last 5 years).......hunting is a pretty safe sport, I don't think we need anymore mandatory regulations.

[wildcat junkie]

ok, I'll bite....I'd give myself a little leeway with shooting times, if we took 20 watches and checked times there would probably be quite a variance in times, and I don't have a smart phone or GPS and the last time I checked they aren't required......15 minutes? that's pushing it...you should already be walking out of the woods by then......and the problem is, not the shooting times, but the fact that "Trophy Buck" has to be "bait" that's thrown out there to catch everyone.

Page 80 in your hunting laws handbook has a chart & it's you responsibility to have a watch or some other time piece.

Have a DEC officar walk up to you in the stand when you have a loaded gun & it's 10 minutes after sunset, try to convence him you are hunting coyotes.

[jjb4900]

Page 80 in your hunting laws handbook has a chart & it's you responsibility to have a watch or some other time piece.

Have a DEC officar walk up to you in the stand when you have a loaded gun & it's 10 minutes after sunset, try to convence him you are hunting coyotes.

didn't I say watch and that 15 minutes is pushing it and that you should already be heading out by that time? you think all watches are synchronized to be exact? I'm talking 2-3 minutes of a variance......I've got 10 different clocks, watches and time pieces around my house and they probably have a variation of 5 minutes.......let me know when the law says you have to have a time piece that is perfectly synchronized with the giant clock up in DEC Headquarters. 

Edited December 4, 2014 by jjb4900

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Page 80 in your hunting laws handbook has a chart & it's you responsibility to have a watch or some other time piece.

Have a DEC officar walk up to you in the stand when you have a loaded gun & it's 10 minutes after sunset, try to convence him you are hunting coyotes.

So the burden of proof is on us to prove we aren't breaking the law? Can you show me a section of the Environmental Conservation law or even NY Penal that says you can not be in the woods with a loaded weapon after sunset or before sunrise.

[jjb4900]

Page 80 in your hunting laws handbook has a chart & it's you responsibility to have a watch or some other time piece.

Have a DEC officar walk up to you in the stand when you have a loaded gun & it's 10 minutes after sunset, try to convence him you are hunting coyotes.

so, I assume if sunset is say 5:30, YOU are certainly not sitting in your stand until that time, are you? I hope you're back at your vehicle or home with your unloaded gun safely tucked away, if you're popping out of the woods at 6:00 with a gun,which you could have unloaded at 5:55 (you prove otherwise), you were breaking the law...........do I have that right? oh, and if you're referring to that little booklet you get with your license, that is just a hunting guide, certainly not a "hunting laws handbook".......the ECL is a little thicker than that.

Edited December 4, 2014 by jjb4900

[wildcat junkie]

So the burden of proof is on us to prove we aren't breaking the law? Can you show me a section of the Environmental Conservation law or even NY Penal that says you can not be in the woods with a loaded weapon after sunset or before sunrise.

If the DEC officer catches you in your stand with a loaded gun 10 minutes after his watch says it's time to stop hunting, try telling the judge that your watch is slow or that you are hunting coyotes.

Let me know how that works.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Wouldn't bother me in the least. Again. What law section are you basing your opinion on?