No Fracking in NYS

[wildcat junkie]

wind sock for direction drone comes in for a landing?? Why the heck would the site need a wind sock??? interesting...

they have a wind sock so if there is a leak, they can tell which direction the gasses will blow. In this case the wind is bowing directly at the house in the background.

 

Any chemical facility will have a wind sock promenantly displayed.

[Ford]

They logged State land north of me two years ago.

[mike rossi]

Why don't you address the situation that exists in PA vs NY Mike?  That would be productive rather than hysterical.

 

The contrast between NY and Pa could be summed up as PA government and residents bought the line of bull that they all would be hitting the jackpot. Nobody hit the jackpot and much of the county side and drinking water supply is impacted. When the excess production continues to drive down the price of NG, PA will face the problem of closing down abandoned frack sites long after the industry has packed its bags.

 

NY, on the other hand, with the benefit of hindsight from the experiences of other states, actually made a better decision.

 

By the way, I believe you live on Long Island? Did you ever live in a house supplied with well water or spring water? Are you even aware that millions of people get water out of their tap from wells or springs?

[mike rossi]

Recently, I drove Newark NJ from Buffalo NY. On the way out, my rout kept me in NY most of the way. On the way back, I stayed in PA most of the way, where fracking is allowed. I was amazed at how much better the roads were in PA. Where did all that money come from? In PA, the thru-way "text-stops" had bathrooms with flush toilets. In NY, you had to go behind a bush. I don't think I even saw a pothole on the PA stretch. Good thing, because I think I wore out the shocks on my rental F-150 on the way out on the NY roads. No shocks were needed on them smooth PA roads. I also have to thank those PA folks and their fracking money for letting us keep our Football team in Buffalo NY. We be just poor folks here, and would have surely lost our team otherwise. Now it looks like we will be getting poorer, but money aint nothing but the source of all evil, so we are doing well.

 

What roads from Newark to Buff? Sounds like I- 80 through PA versus I-90 through NY. I-80 and I-90 are comparable. Both are typical interstates.

 

Likewise the back roads of PA's northern tier and NY'S southern tier are comparable. Both are horrible. However, the reason for the horrible condition  differs: the southern tier of NY is over populated, whoever designed the infrastructure is an idiot and the state and municipalities just don't maintain the roads, despite all the tax they collect. PA's northern tier back roads are torn up by the heavy trucks used by the fracking industry. Away from frack pads you don't see the road destruction, unfortunately those areas are rare because they frack every inch they can.

[mike rossi]

i know a family in pa that gets 50 thousand a month for there lease i do not think they are sorry

 

What town is the lease located in?

[mike rossi]

 

Sorry, that was rambling and off topic. What I am getting at is that careful, thoughtful selective logging and habitat management can go a long way. Leaving some old growth timber is important, but varied habitat is where we see the majority of wildlife.

 

However, the Adirondacks were set aside as old growth habitat and it would require an amendment to the state constitution to change that. These discourses about logging the Adirondacks are ironic. One minute sportsmen claim that land acquisition should focus on tracts closer to the population centers. The next instant they want the ADKs logged. Although there is much state land outside of the Adirondacks, closer to the population centers, which is designated for habitat manipulation, there is no political support do it. The irony is that there is political support to manage habitat on land in remote locations which habitat manipulation is not a designated land use...

 

I am beating around the bush by calling this irony. It is more like: agenda, ideology, and even spite and hatred...

[hunterman7956]

Unlike some places that have banned fracking (Vermont), New York actually has some gas that might be worth going after. Before wells were shut down, natural gas production in New York was exploding. From 1999 to 2006, it rose 260 percent. It quickly dropped off as drilling ceased under a statewide moratorium and a litany of local ones.

BloombergNew York state's natural gas output peaked in 2006

New York sits on top of a large portion of the Marcellus shale formation, one of the fastest-growing sources of natural gas in the world. Pennsylvania has taken full advantage of its reserves. The number of gas rigs operating there went from 16 in January 2008 to 135 by September 2011. Pennsylvania now ranks behind only Texas and Louisiana as the state with the most gas production.

Story: Will Wall Street Love Fracking as Oil Prices Fall?

The sweetest portion of the Marcellus, the region with the deepest reserves, is in Susquehanna County, Pa., along the southern border of New York. The economic activity that’s generated has helped boost total income there substantially over the past decade:

Federal Reserve Bank of St. LouisTotal income in Susquehanna County, Pa., home to some of the richest natural gas reserves in the U.S.

Just across the border in New York, in Broome County, income has also risen, though not quite as steeply since after the recession. Geologists may never truly know how much natural gas New York is missing out on. There are estimates but you don’t really know what’s down there until you start drilling for it. According to a recent report from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, the shale formations under New York “do not appear as economically viable as the parts of those formations that underlie Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Ohio.” BNEF
BNEF analyzed 98 natural gas wells within 10 miles of the New York-Pennsylvania border and determined the wells that potentially could be drilled on the New York side of the border would perform worse than the corresponding wells in Pennsylvania, and therefore need a higher break-even price, about $5.17 per MMBtu, compared with the average Pennsylvania break-even of $3.73 per MMBtu.

For the past six years, natural gas prices, based on the Henry Hub spot market in Louisiana, have averaged $3.65. So on balance, fracking for natural gas in New York state might not have been as profitable, or even economically viable, as it’s been in Pennsylvania and parts of Ohio. Industry proponents had championed fracking as a way to spur economic development in some parts of upstate and rural New York where growth has been stagnant for decades. As an alternative plan, Governor Cuomo looks likely to back a plan to build some “Las Vegas-style” casinos instead.

  If the industry uses lpg propane gas it may warrant another look,

[mike rossi]

Hunterman 7956:

I appreciate that post. However; am I reading the graph correctly, does it indicate that people or businesses which previously have earned around One MILLION dollars have earned more? No kidding, what a surprise... 

 

Again, have you ever driven through much of Susquenna County? It looks like a war zone. It is a dump. The roads are terrible and many houses are in serious disrepair, the people obviously are not well off financially or even able to afford basic maintnenance of their homes. The traffic is heavy, not only from heavy trucks used by the industry, but also the many personal vehicles driven by out of state workers living out of motels who work for the industry.   If someone is attuned enough, they can determine that from google maps, but driving around is better.  I know the area, I hunt in the area. I have been there many times, including recently.

 

 

 

 

,

[hunterman7956]

 It is total income for the area .As far as the roads I don't doubt the roads are as you say .In this world we live in there will always be those with a different point of view from our own and to a money strapped family offered a lease which may tide them over the road conditions may be a mute point. This is a hot subject most are opposed to the chemicals introduced ,but there is a cleaner answer propane just not as cost effective for the companies involved...

[mike rossi]

I just extracted this info from the US Census Bureau. This clearly shows the data on the graphs  by pro-fracking entities posted by Hunterman 7956  are complete lies.( As I already indicated just from knowing the area and applying common sense).  The link to the complete document so you can read it all and/or verify authenticity, is below the table.

 

I think I have had about enough of this forum. Either the person who posted that garbage cannot distinguish between propaganda and facts or he is intentionally being misleading. It seems people are working together on here as well or have multiple screen names.

I made three posts this morning, asking three people to support their claims . All of a sudden, they decided not to answer, and then this propaganda report is posted. As if to distract the pointed questions and change the subject to a bunch of made up data....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mike rossi]

 It is total income for the area .As far as the roads I don't doubt the roads are as you say .In this world we live in there will always be those with a different point of view from our own and to a money strapped family offered a lease which may tide them over the road conditions may be a mute point. This is a hot subject most are opposed to the chemicals introduced ,but there is a cleaner answer propane just not as cost effective for the companies involved...

 

So the graph is for everyone, starting at one million "thousand" dollars, lol... . My graph makes more sense: Average income $48,000 and about a 13% poverty level. Statistics can be use to mislead and this is what the propaganda you posted is designed to do...

 

By the way, how do you write out numerically "one million thousand"? Give us all a break...

Edited December 20, 2014 by mike rossi

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am sure glad that Henry Ford isn't trying to move forward in New York and today. We would be destined to riding horses. At a minimum there should have been a strictly monitored limited permits issued. New York is so great at regulating everything, I can't believe the ideal solution was a blanket "No"

[Dave]

I am sure glad that Henry Ford isn't trying to move forward in New York and today. We would be destined to riding horses. At a minimum there should have been a strictly monitored limited permits issued. New York is so great at regulating everything, I can't believe the ideal solution was a blanket "No"

 

Do you believe it now? I think comparing Ford to Fracking is a stretch. In Fords day there were no regulations and the environment is still suffering from its effects. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I stand by it. Today he would t be allowed to move forward.

[hunterman7956]

That was from bloomburg news network .I guess its all a lie ??? each side has its own slant ...MAN COOL OUT DON'T GET YOUR TINSEL TANGLED...   NO ONE IS OUT TO GET YOU ...

[wildcat junkie]

To be fair, Henry Ford's business model was far different than today's corporate mentality.

 

He paid his workers 2X the going rate because he realized that "consumers" with "disposable income" were neccessary for his business to thrive. His employees made enough $$ to be able to afford to buy his product. That also put upward pressure on all wages. that was emenesely beneficial to his business.

 

Besides that, comparing turn of the century industrial development to today's technology is comparing apples to oranges.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

My point is that if any previous industry was trying to get off the ground in today's age it would be about impossible. As far as wages, I can tell you from personal experience that the wages of the craft are far higher than almost any other sector of construction. I know two pipe welders that make 120,000 for working 8-9 months in Dakotas.

[Dave]

My point is that if any previous industry was trying to get off the ground in today's age it would be about impossible. As far as wages, I can tell you from personal experience that the wages of the craft are far higher than almost any other sector of construction. I know two pipe welders that make 120,000 for working 8-9 months in Dakotas.

 

are they native Dakota residents ?  Or transient gas well and pipeline workers who follow the work?

 

[wolc123]

If restrictions on fracking were lifted throughout US and Canada: 1) What would be the estimated North American reserve of NG in terms of years, based on current consumption? 2) What would that drop to if all oil and coal-fired electric generation were changed to NG? 3) What if all transportation power, currently using oil, was changed to CNG.

My rough order of magnitude guess on the answers would be something like : 1) 2500 years 2) 2000 years 3) 1000 years. One would think that 1000 years would be sufficient to fully develop even cleaner sources of energy. It seems that we are shooting ourselves, and future generations, in the foot by burning so much of the dirty stuff now when there is no need to.

It might not be a bad idea to do everything possible, in an environmentally safe way, to hasten the conversion from coal and oil to NG. With all the current push on reducing carbon emissions and such, throwing up road blocks against a cleaner burning fuel seems outright silly to me, or may indicate some political corruption fueled by the big oil companies.

I think the cat is out of the bag now on this whole deal anyhow, and that is the real reason why we are seeing the collapse in oil prices. I cant see anything bringing them back up to where they were. I am looking forward to the $1.50 a gallon gasoline that may even hit NY within the next year or two.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

are they native Dakota residents ? Or transient gas well and pipeline workers who follow the work?

They are 23 year old guys that worked for my company and went through our apprenticeship program. Pipe welders and from Maryland. They answered and ad, bought a camper and headed up. Any locals that had the skill sets were working too. Plus the supporting businesses.

[Jennifer]

However, the Adirondacks were set aside as old growth habitat and it would require an amendment to the state constitution to change that. These discourses about logging the Adirondacks are ironic. One minute sportsmen claim that land acquisition should focus on tracts closer to the population centers. The next instant they want the ADKs logged. Although there is much state land outside of the Adirondacks, closer to the population centers, which is designated for habitat manipulation, there is no political support do it. The irony is that there is political support to manage habitat on land in remote locations which habitat manipulation is not a designated land use...

 

I am beating around the bush by calling this irony. It is more like: agenda, ideology, and even spite and hatred...

 

Very interesting. Thank you for your insight.

 

Edited December 20, 2014 by Jennifer

[Dave]

If restrictions on fracking were lifted throughout US and Canada: 1) What would be the estimated North American reserve of NG in terms of years, based on current consumption? 2) What would that drop to if all oil and coal-fired electric generation were changed to NG? 3) What if all transportation power, currently using oil, was changed to CNG.

My rough order of magnitude guess on the answers would be something like : 1) 2500 years 2) 2000 years 3) 1000 years. One would think that 1000 years would be sufficient to fully develop even cleaner sources of energy. It seems that we are shooting ourselves, and future generations, in the foot by burning so much of the dirty stuff now when there is no need to.

It might not be a bad idea to do everything possible, in an environmentally safe way, to hasten the conversion from coal and oil to NG. With all the current push on reducing carbon emissions and such, throwing up road blocks against a cleaner burning fuel seems outright silly to me, or may indicate some political corruption fueled by the big oil companies.

I think the cat is out of the bag now on this whole deal anyhow, and that is the real reason why we are seeing the collapse in oil prices. I cant see anything bringing them back up to where they were. I am looking forward to the $1.50 a gallon gasoline that may even hit NY within the next year or two.

That is extremely wishful thinking. Oil prices have fallen in the past and have rebounded and they will again.

All these estimates of how much NG is available are just willd Ass guesstimates. Of their estimates only about 25% is really recoverable.

[Dave]

If restrictions on fracking were lifted throughout US and Canada: 1) What would be the estimated North American reserve of NG in terms of years, based on current consumption? 2) What would that drop to if all oil and coal-fired electric generation were changed to NG? 3) What if all transportation power, currently using oil, was changed to CNG.

My rough order of magnitude guess on the answers would be something like : 1) 2500 years 2) 2000 years 3) 1000 years. One would think that 1000 years would be sufficient to fully develop even cleaner sources of energy. It seems that we are shooting ourselves, and future generations, in the foot by burning so much of the dirty stuff now when there is no need to.

It might not be a bad idea to do everything possible, in an environmentally safe way, to hasten the conversion from coal and oil to NG. With all the current push on reducing carbon emissions and such, throwing up road blocks against a cleaner burning fuel seems outright silly to me, or may indicate some political corruption fueled by the big oil companies.

I think the cat is out of the bag now on this whole deal anyhow, and that is the real reason why we are seeing the collapse in oil prices. I cant see anything bringing them back up to where they were. I am looking forward to the $1.50 a gallon gasoline that may even hit NY within the next year or two.

 

It might not be a bad idea to do everything possible, in an environmentally safe way, to hasten the conversion from coal and oil to NG. With all the current push on reducing carbon emissions and such, throwing up road blocks against a cleaner burning fuel seems outright silly to me, or may indicate some political corruption fueled by the big oil companies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you think that NG has lower carbon emissions than coal and Oil.  When it is being burned it does but thats not the problem. NG is cleaner burning than the oil and coal.  But coal and oil do not emit co unless they are burned. NG on the other hand is just the opposite, the co emitted in the transportation and delivery process from leaking wellheads and pipelines that deliver the gas all over the country. Most large cities have leak management systems to fix these leaks but its a losing battle expecially with a LP cast iron system.

They did an infared ariel view of manhattan to show methane leakage and the whole Island lit up red from leaking gas lines. This is the same all over the counrty where NG is being used for cooking, heating and industrial usage factories and resteraunts. "Transporting coal and oil emit no CO2" NG does!!!  A Fact conveniently omitted by the Pro Fracking people and the oil and gas industry.

 

Edited December 20, 2014 by Dave

[mike rossi]

Well, they are still hiring, go for it. There is a huge CE Office minutes from Binghamton in the middle of a corn field... A mile up the road there is a NG fuel station with two pumps for everyone who drives NG powered vehicles...  

 

http://www.chk.com/careers

[Dave]

How fracking got stopped in NY