Question for FSW

[Terry]

Tracking any deer on snow in a 2000 acre fence wouldn't be fair to the animal, trust me. He ultimately would have no where to escape to.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Can that be said about a state land or your average private land guy...No. I think your own statement proved my point.

Yes i can say that on my property and state land i hunt.  If i did not care about sex or size could kill everyday.. Very easy within 3 days.  If you dont see a deer on property you are hunting for 3 days there are 1 of 2 things wrong. There are no deer or you have no clue on what your doing in the woods.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Tracking any deer on snow in a 2000 acre fence wouldn't be fair to the animal, trust me. He ultimately would have no where to escape to.

Ifs its the cake walk you say it is then there should be no need of snow. He cant get out remember. You should be able to walk in there,find him and drop his ass.

[Terry]

I should have quoted more of your post, you said most bucks were between 150 and 180 and most guys get one within 3 days.

You can do that on state land?

[Terry]

No other hunters to fight with,Much safer, Most places offer a 3 day trip in an awesome ranch with great eats and drinks. Not to even talk about the great animals. Most people that hunt high fence dont own land and have little time to hunt. Most people think big massive bucks when they hear high fence but truth is, most bucks taken are 150-180's They dont spend all their money on cams and food plots and travel costs. They hunt 3 days, Most will kill a buck because thats what they are there for but its not a walk in and your deer is standing there waiting on you. There are bad apples but most get ran out by our own industry, we dont need that crap either.

You ask why? Let me ask..Why would someone drop 3-5 grand to an outfitter in say Iowa for a chance to just see a deer that scores the minimum 140 inch buck, let alone get a shot and kill that buck? Choice is what its all about. Different strokes for different folks!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I should have quoted more of your post, you said most bucks were between 150 and 180 and most guys get one within 3 days.

You can do that on state land?

No?  Why do people go to Ohio,Kansas,and every other big buck area and pay an outfitter 3-5 grand to kill a buck that big. State land has nothing to do with this in general.

[Terry]

No, but my point is high fence hunting is certainly not the challenge fairy chase is. That's my point. I am not against high fence in general, but it is not the same.

[Terry]

And yes I agree, hiring a guide or outfitter is not as challenging either.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Yup everybody has an opinion but i just find it funny how some can have an opinion of something they have no experience doing. Thats All.

[Skillet]

Tracking any deer on snow in a 2000 acre fence wouldn't be fair to the animal, trust me. He ultimately would have no where to escape to.

I'd bet a week's pay you come out empty handed.

 

Yup everybody has an opinion but i just find it funny how some can have an opinion of something they have no experience doing. Thats All.

X2

[Doc]

Oh what a disgusting thing it is for me to have to agree with FSW ..... lol. You have no idea how it pains me ....ha-ha-ha. But I don't care if the 2000 acre parcel of high fence had a roof over it. Such a hunt would be completely fair chase as long as the deer didn't come when their names are called or come when a grain pail was rattled. 2000 acres is a huge area and the way deer circle and double back, it would be a huge challenge. Actually, just for fun, I may try to look up a study that I read where enclosed deer successfully eluded a group of experienced hunters in a much, much smaller area.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Saying a 2000 acre pen isnt hunting is kind of silly. As long as the animals were not bottle fed, hand raised, i would consider them pretty close to wild. The farms i hunt total up to just shy of 1000 acres, and i have a hard time effectively covering it in a season, thats including doing drives. This season, Id say i personally hunted 3/4 of it from Oct 1 to the last day of Muzzleloader, and a good deal of that, i only hunted once or twice.

I agree that there are good and bad preserves out there. My standards of good would probably be alot higher than FSW, but i do agree with him that there are different classes of operations, and some i would classify as hunts, just hunts with an astriks attached haha.

[pistolp71]

2000 acres is big, but still NOT fair chase.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Maybe I missed it, but I dont remember anyone saying it was "fair chase" under the guidelines of B&C or P&Y.

 

You do realize what the average home range of a free ranging whitetail is, right? In case you dont, read this...

 

http://www.qdma.com/articles/33-fascinating-factoids-from-deer-research

 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Oh what a disgusting thing it is for me to have to agree with FSW ..... lol. You have no idea how it pains me ....ha-ha-ha. But I don't care if the 2000 acre parcel of high fence had a roof over it. Such a hunt would be completely fair chase as long as the deer didn't come when their names are called or come when a grain pail was rattled. 2000 acres is a huge area and the way deer circle and double back, it would be a huge challenge. Actually, just for fun, I may try to look up a study that I read where enclosed deer successfully eluded a group of experienced hunters in a much, much smaller area.

Cant believe i missed this but rest easy Doc. I wont hold you agreeing with me on something against you. lol  2000 acres is huge and i know i would have a heck of a time taking a single deer off of it, if i even could. 90% of hunters cant take a deer in months of hunting let alone them taking a single animal. I wish i had a big fenced in area because i would have open free hunts for a few of the nay sayers and watch some crow get ate as they pull out of the driveway...With an empty pickup truck..

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Maybe I missed it, but I dont remember anyone saying it was "fair chase" under the guidelines of B&C or P&Y.

 

You do realize what the average home range of a free ranging whitetail is, right? In case you dont, read this...

 

http://www.qdma.com/articles/33-fascinating-factoids-from-deer-research

It would be more than fair chase with most hunters...There is some good info there but i dont agree with the 115 grand to improve 1 inch of bone. I did not read the whole deal but i can tell you that if i were to release a few years worth of blood around here i could make many inches of improvement to the local herd. Does would be home bodies and bucks would disperse but they would still grow to be much bigger.

[jjb4900]

It would be more than fair chase with most hunters...There is some good info there but i dont agree with the 115 grand to improve 1 inch of bone. I did not read the whole deal but i can tell you that if i were to release a few years worth of blood around here i could make many inches of improvement to the local herd. Does would be home bodies and bucks would disperse but they would still grow to be much bigger.

here's another question for you........if you took a wild doe from an area with crappy food sources, like some areas of the Catskills.........impregnated it with the semen from one of your bucks, and then released it back into the wild where it was taken from, what could be expected, would those genetics be wasted because the area is not really suited for growing big bucks?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

here's another question for you........if you took a wild doe from an area with crappy food sources, like some areas of the Catskills.........impregnated it with the semen from one of your bucks, and then released it back into the wild where it was taken from, what could be expected, would those genetics be wasted because the area is not really suited for growing big bucks?

No i believe it would have to help some. To a point. Doing it only one time..Not so much but over time yes i believe it would. The land would still only carry so many but they would be the biggest, healthiest deer that survived. But a one time deal would not do a whole lot of improvement. Now take the offspring from that breeding pair and breed them with a good buck and then you would have a start of a good thing.

[pistolp71]

Maybe I missed it, but I dont remember anyone saying it was "fair chase" under the guidelines of B&C or P&Y.

 

You do realize what the average home range of a free ranging whitetail is, right? In case you dont, read this...

 

http://www.qdma.com/articles/33-fascinating-factoids-from-deer-research

 

Ughh, yeah you missed it. The post is right above yours. And I am fully aware of the size of the average home range of whitetails. They have been tracked with gps collars to venture MILES away from their home range.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It would be more than fair chase with most hunters...There is some good info there but i dont agree with the 115 grand to improve 1 inch of bone. I did not read the whole deal but i can tell you that if i were to release a few years worth of blood around here i could make many inches of improvement to the local herd. Does would be home bodies and bucks would disperse but they would still grow to be much bigger.

 

I think they mean on average through a certain span of time within a herd. Not every deer in the herd will end up with the genetics, plus start factoring in all of the lesser genetics that are already dominating the pool, and they are probably pretty close to being right, but who knows. It would be an interesting study to read.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ughh, yeah you missed it. The post is right above yours. And I am fully aware of the size of the average home range of whitetails. They have been tracked with gps collars to venture MILES away from their home range.

 

"ughh", again I ask, where was anyone talking about it relating to B&C or P&Y type rules. Doc was talking about his personal interpretation of what fair chase is to HIM.

 

"ughh", I said AVERAGE HOME RANGE, not what some deer do, or what they might do during the rut when they sometimes wander.

 

Try to keep up...

[pistolp71]

I forgot Mr. Moderator knows everything and loves to argue with anybody that will listen. I won't.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I think they mean on average through a certain span of time within a herd. Not every deer in the herd will end up with the genetics, plus start factoring in all of the lesser genetics that are already dominating the pool, and they are probably pretty close to being right, but who knows. It would be an interesting study to read.

Would be more interesting to do. Many of the top record book states are also the top deer farming states. One must wonder how many escapes or let go deer run the woods of those states. I would be willing to bite the bullet and let a half dozen or so sneak out the gate to improve our area.  Think i could get the Ok? lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Would be more interesting to do. Many of the top record book states are also the top deer farming states. One must wonder how many escapes or let go deer run the woods of those states. I would be willing to bite the bullet and let a half dozen or so sneak out the gate to improve our area.  Think i could get the Ok? lol

Might be one of those "easier to get forgiveness than permission" moments.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Might be one of those "easier to get forgiveness than permission" moments.

LOL..No Doubt. They would never give the go ahead but there is also nothing they can do about a farm mishap. I mean, they would probably feel sorry for me for the value of the animals i lost....