No more hunt classes...

[growalot]

At the Gander in Henrietta...Don't know about other Gander's...heard them telling ppl over the phone when I was there last week...All kinds of competition near them and they are cutting services....makes us wunder...

[bubba]

If you are talking hunter ed,that is a free service... it does not cost them anything to do so. 

[Lawdwaz]

If you are talking hunter ed,that is a free service... it does not cost them anything to do so. 

 

I think what they are saying is that their classes (at Gander) were not well attended due to plenty of other options for the new prospective hunters.

[phade]

If you are talking hunter ed,that is a free service... it does not cost them anything to do so. 

 

 

What they are actually saying is that hosting the classes costs them money and sacrifices profits.

 

It certainly costs Gander Mountain.

 

The most common KPI for a retail store is sales per sq/ft. Factor in the opportunity cost, the facitlities costs, maintenance, upkeep, etc. for a common area...and then try to tell the manager that his performance goals were not met when they might have easily been met if that 5-10% of non-revenue producing footage had been converted into what it should be...revenue generating space. Sure, you might get some goodwill, but not enough to offset, not even close.

 

I think its nothing but a smart decision for them to nix that. Let them focus on doing what they do best (relatively speaking)....retail. The DEC should be responsible for this in my mind.

Edited January 12, 2015 by phade

[ants]

I don't think that the Gander people actually teach the class. I know that the  Gander near me, rents out the room to people who teach handgun safety classes and other related courses.

[Lawdwaz]

It certainly costs Gander Mountain.

 

The most common KPI for a retail store is sales per sq/ft.

 

I think its nothing but a smart decision for them to nix that. Let them focus on doing what they do best (relatively speaking)....retail.

 

Ah but those new hunters at some point will need gear to go along with their (suitable for framing) Hunter Education Certificate.

 

I wonder if they would give them a discount coupon too for coming to their class?  It certainly would drum up some business.

 

You might think that increase in business would off set any KPI issues. (whatever KPI means) 

 

All I know about the local GM here is that the nixed the archery lanes that were open to the public when they did the remodel last year.

[Lawdwaz]

Oh, I see an edited post............ I type too slow!

Edited January 12, 2015 by Lawdwaz

[growalot]

I didn't ask ...just know they took two phone calls while I was waiting and said "We no longer offer hunter classes."

I Would think that unlike some of these other places that have mountains of mounts...casting ponds and such for the express purpose of drawing interest in coming to the store...Gander would want to keep the one little draw they have...which already had it's own little space. Try to improve on it to draw possible customers in...it's not as if they are bringing them in with their over welming sale prices nor their friendly helpful staff...

[gastrodoc]

I don't see Gander Henrietta  making it too much longer.  Their selection is poor, there are never any employees to answer your questions,  and their store is always a ghost town when I am in there.  Now with Field and Stream across the street and Bass Pro opening in Victor they are done

[phade]

We would all like to see Gander Mtn continue to open up its doors to training classes. Problem is, its financially a loser. Given the state of affairs of the store as noted, its makes perfect sense to try to maxmize revenue generation. Giving coupons or getting goodwill from the new hunters a few times a year will in no way shape or form offset a measurable and known revenue projection/realiztion given that space is holding inventory for sale every day. At the end of the day, there are people that are accountable for their kingdoms. This is a pretty clear-cut business decision.

 

Now, should there happen to be a giant uproar with negative publicity (ie press, picket signs, petitions, etc.), then you can start to get into risk management via reputational risk.

[phade]

I didn't ask ...just know they took two phone calls while I was waiting and said "We no longer offer hunter classes."

I Would think that unlike some of these other places that have mountains of mounts...casting ponds and such for the express purpose of drawing interest in coming to the store...Gander would want to keep the one little draw they have...which already had it's own little space. Try to improve on it to draw possible customers in...it's not as if they are bringing them in with their over welming sale prices nor their friendly helpful staff...

 

That's precisely the problem. A minimal revenue generating draw is not wanted. Take that space and throw a fish tank in there with some fishing poles or a mount wall with some hunting gear. That's much more of a draw/profit for the same space.

[phade]

Ah but those new hunters at some point will need gear to go along with their (suitable for framing) Hunter Education Certificate.

 

I wonder if they would give them a discount coupon too for coming to their class?  It certainly would drum up some business.

 

You might think that increase in business would off set any KPI issues. (whatever KPI means) 

 

All I know about the local GM here is that the nixed the archery lanes that were open to the public when they did the remodel last year.

 

KPI = Key Performance Indicator

 

I think the archery lanes is more a casualty of the insurance in all honesty. Small shops can get away with it because they generally have policies that are lower risk due to exposure/potential limits.

 

Bigger stores like GM, BPS, Cabelas have larger footprints, more risk exposure, and higher ceilings. Local Joe's archery shop might get sued for $1M, GM might get sued for 5 or 10, for the same situation. Cabelas and BPS and F&S have lanes, but they're graded much higher than GM. GM is private and trying to be spun to turn a profit for resale or going public. I suspect GM has a higher operating cost due to their ratings for loans, insurance, etc. That makes archery lanes more costly from a risk perspective.

Edited January 12, 2015 by phade

[jjb4900]

I always figured these sporting good stores, regardless of size, hosted these classes with the intention of gaining new customers and making money off them......I don't see how it costs my local archery shop a nickel to run them, they just clear out the archery lanes on days they are normally closed and run the classes.......and no doubt they sell a couple hundred bucks, if not more, on new gear as well as gaining some repeat customers out of it.

[phade]

I always figured these sporting good stores, regardless of size, hosted these classes with the intention of gaining new customers and making money off them......I don't see how it costs my local archery shop a nickel to run them, they just clear out the archery lanes on days they are normally closed and run the classes.......and no doubt they sell a couple hundred bucks, if not more, on new gear as well as gaining some repeat customers out of it.

 

Big difference between local joe's archery shop and Gander Mountain. I doubt Joe has shareholders, nor mega banks backing their loans. Nor does he keep track of sales per sq/ft or foot trafic data.

 

Really this is a very simple math problem for any store of size/volume. Different perspective for small shop who is trying to drum up business on a small scale. He's also clearing out his lanes for dual purpose. His opportunity cost is smaller because of the fact that he's simply just not generating revenue on the lanes. I suspect he'd think twice if he had a room set up solely for classes 10-15x a year and had to pay heat, rent, maintenance, etc. on that room. This is the case at GM. The room isn't being used for anything else other than classes...so when it is not packed full with people (which its not 9 of 10 days), it's not only not generating a profit, but costing them money as well, on a much bigger scale.

 

A store that size generates around $150-$190 per sq/ft (Dick's is $187 give or take). Say the classroom is 25'x25'... that's 625 sq/ft. Let's assume they hit $175 sq/ft. That's $110k in revenue generation. Say they have one class per week at 20 students (being generous as they don't have 52 classes a year there for hunter's ed)...52x20 = 1,040 students. See where this is going? Now let's assume it costs around $30k to operate that room...so that room would need to generate about $140k in a fiscal year from those 1,040 students. Do you think you are going to get $135 per student? Nope. Now, in reality, they probably only do 1-2 classes per month. So, make that amount $270 per student. You can continue to add in other factors and the amounts go up up and up.

 

Math shows their decision to nix the classes are financially smart.

Edited January 12, 2015 by phade

[bubba]

Ok I teach a class.  I volunteer my time. We did one in Watertown. They let us use a room they have just for such events. i charged them nothing and they had no out of pocket expense except for when the lights were on.  How is this a loss for them?  I guess maybe they had to pay someone to turn the lights on.

[phade]

Ok I teach a class.  I volunteer my time. We did one in Watertown. They let us use a room they have just for such events. i charged them nothing and they had no out of pocket expense except for when the lights were on.  How is this a loss for them?  I guess maybe they had to pay someone to turn the lights on.

 

Operating costs for a retail center are extremely high - each sq/ft costs X amount to run. That's a fact. It's significant. Heat, electricity, insurance premium, maintenance/upkeep, A/C, plumbing...fixtures...you name it, it costs money. Profit margins for retail are super small - low single digits. Why? Because it costs alot of money to run a brick and mortar retail space. Retail is successful by limiting capital expenditures and increasing sales - which is done by sq/ft in the industry. 

 

Then once you realize that that space isn't selling inventory 365 days a year, get back to me on the "cost."

Edited January 12, 2015 by phade

[fasteddie]

I took my Bow Hunting class at the Rochester Hollow Grinder store in Charlotte . They had an empty room upstairs where the class was given . RHG also had an archery shop and bow range upstairs . People that took the course went back ther to shop and a couple joined an archery shooting league . The empty room was already paid for by their overhead so it didn't cost the shop anything extra and brought in some potential customers .

RHG was located on Stutson Street and was on the route to cross the old bridge at Charlotte harbor . After they build the new bridge business dropped off .

Anyway , maybe the new Field and Stream store might pick up the slack and being a location to hold the classes .

[jjb4900]

Big difference between local joe's archery shop and Gander Mountain. I doubt Joe has shareholders, nor mega banks backing their loans. Nor does he keep track of sales per sq/ft or foot trafic data.

 

Really this is a very simple math problem for any store of size/volume. Different perspective for small shop who is trying to drum up business on a small scale. He's also clearing out his lanes for dual purpose. His opportunity cost is smaller because of the fact that he's simply just not generating revenue on the lanes. I suspect he'd think twice if he had a room set up solely for classes 10-15x a year and had to pay heat, rent, maintenance, etc. on that room. This is the case at GM. The room isn't being used for anything else other than classes...so when it is not packed full with people (which its not 9 of 10 days), it's not only not generating a profit, but costing them money as well, on a much bigger scale.

 

A store that size generates around $150-$190 per sq/ft (Dick's is $187 give or take). Say the classroom is 25'x25'... that's 625 sq/ft. Let's assume they hit $175 sq/ft. That's $110k in revenue generation. Say they have one class per week at 20 students (being generous as they don't have 52 classes a year there for hunter's ed)...52x20 = 1,040 students. See where this is going? Now let's assume it costs around $30k to operate that room...so that room would need to generate about $140k in a fiscal year from those 1,040 students. Do you think you are going to get $135 per student? Nope. Now, in reality, they probably only do 1-2 classes per month. So, make that amount $270 per student. You can continue to add in other factors and the amounts go up up and up.

 

Math shows their decision to nix the classes and financially smart.

makes sense, I was unaware they had space set aside for the sole purpose of the classes........I assumed they just cleared out a space a few weekends/evenings a year and put everything back for the next business day.

[phade]

I took my Bow Hunting class at the Rochester Hollow Grinder store in Charlotte . They had an empty room upstairs where the class was given . RHG also had an archery shop and bow range upstairs . People that took the course went back ther to shop and a couple joined an archery shooting league . The empty room was already paid for by their overhead so it didn't cost the shop anything extra and brought in some potential customers .

RHG was located on Stutson Street and was on the route to cross the old bridge at Charlotte harbor . After they build the new bridge business dropped off .

Anyway , maybe the new Field and Stream store might pick up the slack and being a location to hold the classes .

 

Overhead? When was the last time overhead was free?

[phade]

makes sense, I was unaware they had space set aside for the sole purpose of the classes........I assumed they just cleared out a space a few weekends/evenings a year and put everything back for the next business day.

 

 

Multi-use space can close the gap, but even in today's age it better be used very smartly to make it close to being above water. Multi-use space gets into so many other factors, such as not being able to use it to stock inventory, or time spent making sure the "multi-uses" are using the space (who is arranging the classes, who is bringing in the experts to do discussions, who is making sure they have hotel arrangements, who is making sure that the materials are there, or the room is clean, etc. and so on an so forth).

 

Bass Pro and Cabelas and now F&S are doing this pretty well, but likely can justify it as a loss leader. I can go into why, but GM generally isn't in a place where that is the case, and the leadership hasn't dedicated to making that happen.

 

Gander needs to focus on core components. The other stores are in better shape that can allow them to work on ancillary experiences with even a small loss to help maintain or improve already high sq/ft KPI.

Edited January 12, 2015 by phade

[fasteddie]

Overhead? When was the last time overhead was free?

 

The store was paying overhead for an empty room . How does that help them ? Holding a class in the unused room made for potential customers in their store . I spent money there and probably wouldn't have if it hadn't been for the class .

[phade]

The store was paying overhead for an empty room . How does that help them ? Holding a class in the unused room made for potential customers in their store . I spent money there and probably wouldn't have if it hadn't been for the class .

 

You need to take the thought process up one level - why pay overhead for an empty room? Now you have to hold a class just to try to make up for the operating expense of an empty room. Instead of selling to turn a profit, you are selling to balance a deficit that you didn't have to have in the first place.

 

There's a reason why many small business fail. Accepting overhead like that in a retail situation - might as well have someone shoot you in the foot and then you thank them for it. Doesn't shock me they are not in business now.

Edited January 12, 2015 by phade

[fasteddie]

You need to take the thought process up one level - why pay overhead for an empty room? Now you have to hold a class just to try to make up for the operating expense of an empty room. Instead of selling to turn a profit, you are selling to balance a deficit that you didn't have to have in the first place.

 

There's a reason why many small business fail. Accepting overhead like that in a retail situation - might as well have someone shoot you in the foot and then you thank them for it. Doesn't shock me they are not in business now.

 

Phade -- I agree to an extent . Some businesses buy / lease a building due to it's location . It may have more space than required of which some doesn't get used . Might as well put it to use , if possible . If not , it just remains wasted space .

Anyway , maybe F&S Store might pick up the slack and hold the classes in their building .

[phade]

Phade -- I agree to an extent . Some businesses buy / lease a building due to it's location . It may have more space than required of which some doesn't get used . Might as well put it to use , if possible . If not , it just remains wasted space .

Anyway , maybe F&S Store might pick up the slack and hold the classes in their building .

Agreed, if the owner was real smart he would have settled on a reduced lease rate. Maybe he did.

[bubba]

but the room they let us use was the employee meeting room in the back of the store, not in the merchandise area. They use it regularly.  I guess it needs to be full of employees daily to be useful.  I dont know