NYODN was interesting......

[growalot]

Rumors and Hoopla...

When they are QUOTING the NYS DEC top biologist. I believe I'd put it in a category a tad high than that.

[growalot]

Rob..I have read and 're-read your post were you being facetious?

[tuckersdaddy]

I have no problem with deer hunters trophy hunting. if you choose to to to sit in your stand and wait for the deer you have seen on your cameras all summer, best of luck and i hope it works out.... however the only effective way for the state to curb the deer population is to have hunters harvest deer. in many areas of the state hunters start with 4 or 5 tags in their pocket. if you are going after a specific rack and choose not to fill tags, the state loses 75% to 80% of their ability to curb the population per hunter. by using some of these ideas it forcing the hand of some hunters to take a deer that they may normally pass on. As far as youth seasons are concerned, Suck it up and deal with it. Its giving the next generation the opportunity to get out int the woods without having the pressure of large numbers of hunters in the woods. in our family it allowed grandfathers who dont hunt cold weather any longer to spend time in the woods with the kids... memories and lessons that last a life time.

[growalot]

Well God forbid!! The deer take the heat for some of these DMPS not being used...

 

I mean I went out all banged up and hunted darn near daily trying to shoot nothing but doe to donate. Out of..lets see...2 buck tags..and 4 doe tags...thats not counting 2 I could have had signed over...the deer and weather cooperated just enough in 3 months to land me..... 1 doe and 1 buck(one I would not have normally shot). Now if I recall...I heard many of the same stories from guys on here and other forums

[tuckersdaddy]

Grow.... i'm not pointing a finger at you saying you didnt do your part... but there is a significant number of hunters who dont or wont fill dmps. As the number of hunters decrease, the age of us as a group increasing (meaning the less able or willing to going out in adverse conditions, and less concerned about meat in the freezer) the less opportunity the state has to keep the herd in check. So you end up with ideas being tossed around that are not so popular. There are alot of other issues in play as well such as land usage. We have here in chenango a group (do to religious reasons) will not allow hunting on their property. No big deal accept it is a 600 acre chunk in between 2 5000 acre sections of state land. As the deer get pressured its a no brainer where they head to. Now toss in hunters who wont fill dmps or decide to wait until the last week to consider it, and the harvest is minimized. By using some of the methods suggested it forces the hand of the hunter to harvest does before they are pressured off of huntable property, or keep those who wish not to use dmps out of the field decreasing pressure. It is becoming a problem for the state. you and others here who own a chunk of property, plot it and use solid management practices dont have the same concerns, and are negatively affected, but in a state with as much state maintained property as ny has the view picture, short and long term is quite different.      

[gjs4]

Find it interesting that no one mentioned the other articles related to the deer herd in that same pos magazine.

Crossbow hunters called in 2200 deer and the state considered that a 4000 deer take. Huh? First years take with no data to support and they already know it's about half of what took place? Wtf?!?

Next we have all of the knowledge of the worst two winters from a critical wildlife stand point I've experienced and they still follow a management plan drafted in 2010&11. Wtf again?

On the website there is a faq on deer and some biologist determined that early gunfire doesn't change deer behavior. What crap is that and then they're contradicted again here in this issue. Oh yeah and how have those youth numbers grown?? Less than 1% w the Saturday gun opener but they left it.

It is all about licenses. Crossbow- new license. Lazy bug buck hunter- hope w ARs. Just bring on the dollars. The dec couldn't manage a bird feeder let alone hunting. But wait over 50% percent of the male deer take is over 2.5. Love to know where that data is from and spare me with processor inventory we all know better.

The dec doesn't care about the animal or your happiness as a hunter- just dollars. Mr Piatt doesn't care about the print just the subscription. Until the thinking of us as a group reaches where the ole neigh Sayers have brought themselves in this thread and push back the state will just keep saying crap as fact and dangling golden carrots for currency. All the money outdoors people out into that organization is deserving of a better interaction and product. Maybe if I get selected for the next Cornell survey they'll get that opinion to post in there advertisement filled syllabus.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Doc]

And of course we have to wonder why if a doe-only restriction is the plan that will be the salvation of deer management, how come it is not a part of the more effective harvesting season that they have to work with ...... The regular gun season. Oh I know. The level of heat that they would have to absorb from harassing gun hunters like that would be hard to handle, but the more minority seasons are easier to steamroll over. Yeah it may not be anywhere as effective as applying it to regular gun season, but it is a whole lot politically easier to jam down the throats of bowhunters and muzzleloaders than trying to deal with the larger majority of deer hunters.

[Nomad]

There will be a lot of untagged bucks killed in early bow and then they will still have their buck tag for the rest of bow......

[growalot]

Tuckersdad....That is why a SOUND MANAGEMENT PLAN is needed....Earn a buck,earn a buck, earn a buck! A cross bow allowed during that time..but for hunters . With a a archery certificate(yes I'm still beating that horse) Listen to the studies..deer move right after gun opener to safe zones...Then do not put a youth gun hunt right at the beginning of archery season...have it just before gun...when they start moving any ways!

Now as far as my hunt last year...yes I have small chunk ..and little luck ..Now think on this. Not far from me guy with way less than me or guys around him and NO at fields one small food plot took 11 deer..one guy.

Besides some had to be illegal...How would you suppose he got those deer to that very small piece of land? I also ask way is the DEC saying baiting is OK for special Town hunts but harmful to deer in other areas...why not have special doe baiting times in other areas?

Edited March 22, 2015 by growalot

[growalot]

BTW...I hear many guys say they don't waste there time hunting the first 2wks of bow..not close enough to the rut..which for me is fine...from a herd management stand, not so much...but if they had to show a doe harvest before a buck...there would be more ppl out there hunting...Then again harvest reports would drastically take a dive.

Edited March 22, 2015 by growalot

[phade]

Earn a buck once implemented, is halted frequently because it isnt effective and supported. Wisconsin got to the point legislators were engaged to override the biologists legislatively to remove it.

One of the biggest issues is it makes button buck harvests jump. And I would be in that bucket. Install EAB and I dont care if button bucky shows up - it is eating my grim reaper at 265 fps if it gets me my buck tag. As much as one could say, doe only, not many states I know of run like that. Usually its antlered and antlerless.

Edited March 22, 2015 by phade

[Lawdwaz]

I can just imagine the spotted fawn hero shots next year..........................

 

 

 

[phade]

I can just imagine the spotted fawn hero shots next year..........................

 

I'll set it right next to my buck tag in hand to see what is bigger.

 

Seriously, EAB has some drawbacks that many people don't expect or foresee. That's why WI nearly had a civil war over it.

[Lawdwaz]

I'll set it right next to my buck tag in hand to see what is bigger.

 

Seriously, EAB has some drawbacks that many people don't expect or foresee. That's why WI nearly had a civil war over it.

 

After I posted that little wise crack I thought oh crap, phade might think it was directed at him and it wasn't. 

 

It'll probably be me with the little veal/venison combo. hopefully. 

 

I have no issues with EAB..................

[growalot]

Perhaps...just perhaps if the regulations were written intelligently enough to take into account said problems, as mentioned above. Then EAB could be a very good tool...though I realize that's asking a lot from bureaucrats.

[Doc]

Well, with antlerless permits all over the place, and consignments and such, I would imagine that with an EAB rule in effect the first day of the season, each hunter would sit down and fill out one of their tags as having successfully taken a doe. Maybe even before they ever step foot outside to hunt.

 

So the "buck hunters" continue to be "buck hunters" anyway. All they have to do is to make sure they have an antlerless tag somewhere around to fill out first.

[phade]

Well, with antlerless permits all over the place, and consignments and such, I would imagine that with an EAB rule in effect the first day of the season, each hunter would sit down and fill out one of their tags as having successfully taken a doe. Maybe even before they ever step foot outside to hunt.

 

So the "buck hunters" continue to be "buck hunters" anyway. All they have to do is to make sure they have an antlerless tag somewhere around to fill out first.

 

Yes. Short of a mandatory check, there's nothing that EAB would solve. And, at that, the management would have to move from antler/antlerless to doe/buck and that isn't going to happen. You're still going to get kills of buttons because those that want to follow the law are going to hit the release on the first thing that walks by that looks like it'll meet the guidelines. I don't see many states running doe vs. buck distinctions. Even Iowa has this problem with shed bucks in their late season.

 

EAB is fine if you can swallow the rate of buttons being taken shooting up dramatically. Then in 3-5 years, people will be complaining that there are no bucks because the buttons are being wiped out and the 1.5s are being shot like that are currently. So, instead of dropping numbers of does, we're dropping numbers of the first two age classes of bucks.

[growalot]

Phade.... weren't you just on here a week or so ago telling us how we ,paraphrasing here, were doing a disservice to the herd by not shooting fawns? Which is it Shooting fawns which risks button bucks, is bad or good?

[phade]

Phade.... weren't you just on here a week or so ago telling us how we ,paraphrasing here, were doing a disservice to the herd by not shooting fawns? Which is it Shooting fawns which risks button bucks, is bad or good?

 

 

EAB's goal is to wholesale reduce the doe population in a fairly wide area - whether it be WMU or aggregate unit (much more likely I believe once set-up).

 

Shooting fawns as a portion of the harvest breakdown in areas where winterkill is likely and in highly over-populated areas - we're talking the kind of strain experienced downstate on Long Island - because that was where that conversation centered - is a different topic altogether.

 

If you can't comprehend the difference between these two topics, there is nothing I can say to help you beyond what I just typed.

Edited March 23, 2015 by phade

[growalot]

Oh I comprehend the difference fine, I was asking if I read you correctly in the other post...which I do not believe I read where you  made a area distinction...I'll go back and re-read it...thanks!

[phade]

Oh I comprehend the difference fine, I was asking if I read you correctly in the other post...which I do not believe I read where you  made a area distinction...I'll go back and re-read it...thanks!

 

Please do re-read that thread. Despite your claim, I fear you may have reached for the apple when wanting the orange. Thanks!

Edited March 23, 2015 by phade

[growalot]

What claim??????

[phade]

I'll let you re-read your own post and figure that one out. It's pretty clear. Don't get all riled up, Spring is here and hopefully Cabin Fever (not our Cabin Fever, but the malady) isn't lingering for you.

[growalot]

I'm Sorry Phade...I'm in no way "riled up"...I asked a simple question and stated I that I would go back and re-read your post....I made no disparaging remarks to you ..made no insinuations...though I see you seem to need to respond in such a way... YOU apparently took a simple question and turned it in to some sort of attack...it was a question to what sounded like a contradiction to your previous post. I was just asking for clarification. I clearly said I'd go back and re-read it..that's all ......

 

Posted Today, 07:51 AM

Phade.... weren't you just on here a week or so ago telling us how we ,paraphrasing here, were doing a disservice to the herd by not shooting fawns? Which is it Shooting fawns which risks button bucks, is bad or good?

 

I'll go back and re-read it...thanks!

 

[phade]

I'm Sorry Phade...I'm in no way "riled up"...I asked a simple question and stated I that I would go back and re-read your post....I made no disparaging remarks to you ..made no insinuations...though I see you seem to need to respond in such a way... YOU apparently took a simple question and turned it in to some sort of attack...it was a question to what sounded like a contradiction to your previous post. I was just asking for clarification. I clearly said I'd go back and re-read it..that's all ......

 

Aye aye aye, Grow.