Tim McGraw to Headline Anti-Gun Concert in Connecticut

[WNYBuckHunter]

I wont disagree that I haven't stuck my foot in my mouth a time or 2. I've learned a lot here and that's why I stick around. But, maybe I'm blind to it, so please help me understand where I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth here? I've lived in 3 different major cities, different states and traveled the world. It has taught me that we're all different. What is acceptable in Horseheads, NY is not in Jersey City. Gun laws are generally federal and State until a governor feels he's above the constitution. So with that in mind, I believe we need some common sense gun laws and unfortunately both sides of the fight take it to the extreme. Evil black guns vs. No control at all. And simply put, I don't believe some of the folks here when they say they wouldn't think twice about the urban or arab with the gun.

 

In the same post you said

 

"If you're not going to introduce some level of gun control, then the guy taking his kid rabbit hunting is no different than the guy intending to do harm. A gun in the truck, is a gun in the truck."

 

and then

 

"The world is not black and white"

 

That constitutes talking out of both sides of your mouth.

 

If the world is not black and white, which it isnt, then you need to look at situations in context, and take them for what they are. A gun in the truck of a law abiding citizen is completely different than a gun in the hand of someone walking into a building to blow people away. Same thing as the handgun in the waistband of someone that is legally carrying that firearm is completely different than the gun in the waistband of the guy thats about to rob a 7-11.

 

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

No, I was not saying that.  But I have heard with my own ears some attitudes that rural people have.  Not saying they all have these attitudes or that these attitudes are all necessarily wrong, but from my personal experience rural people are considerably less likely to be accepting of people that may look or act different than what they are used to seeing in their own home towns.  I'm sure there are people in big cities that have such attitudes also, but in general in a big city you are elbow to elbow with ALL sorts of people.  White, black, foreign born, gay, you name it.  You better be able to live around and accept these people for what they are or you will live a depressing and miserable life.  People in the rural areas don't need to accept such things since they don't see these type of people on an every day basis, thus they are generally less likely to.

 

I beg to differ. Ive lived in rural towns, Ive lived in the city (not just Rottenchester), and Ive lived in the suburbs. Honestly, the least tolerant of people that looked different than they did, were people in the city. Walk down the wrong street in the wrong neighborhood wearing your typical middle aged white guy uniform and see what happens. Could be a predominately black neighborhood or a predominately hispanic neighborhood, even a predominately asian neighborhood. Id be willing to bet that a large number of the people there arent going to welcome you with open arms lol. Hell, I lived in a predominately black neighborhood in Florida, and it took close to a year before the odd looks and negative cracker comments went away. Well, the cracker comments kinda stuck because I started calling myself that in a joking manner. It actually got to the point where a bunch of my buddies that were black used to call me the "n word", but it took a long time for the intolerance to go away enough to where I was accepted as part of the neighborhood.

 

I wont say that there arent intolerant people in rural areas or suburbs, because there are. Im just saying that painting with a broad brush is silly.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I think in genera,l neighborhoods or groups hold a cautious eye to anyone that is new and unfamiliar to them. 2 million years of genetic encoding is difficult to overcome.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[WNYBuckHunter]

If the kid is denied a gun, and the mom locks up hers he's going to really have to work hard to get one. I think that's all most people really want. Make it freaking difficult. Yes, you can't stop everything but lets not make it easy for God's sake. Make this suburban white kid go down to a city corner to buy an illegal gun. Make it freakin hard. Maybe the criminal doesn't even sell it to the suburban white kid knowing what he might do. It's not urban crime anymore. There is no street code and maybe he doesn't get the gun. And yes, beef up the illegal gun laws. Fry them!

 

Lanza killed his mother. Thats working pretty hard in my opinion. After she was dead, what difference would it have made if she had the guns in a locked safe? He would have gotten the guns out of there and carried out the same thing.

 

The statement that the criminal woulndt sell to someone because they know what they might do is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen posted on this site.

 

Gun laws only apply to those that follow them.

[Huntscreek]

My Post of great wisdom from early today is gone?? LOL

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sure you posted it? I checked the logs and nothing has been deleted.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It is in the other thread.

 

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/27422-why-tim-mcgraw-sandy-hook-promise-are-wrong/page-1#entry377123

 

Edited April 23, 2015 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Huntscreek]

Thanks guys, I was wrong I posted it in other thread. I'll put it here too. Thanks again

Ok we know almost every mass murder had 2 things in common Mental problems & Gun free Zones! So now if you are foolish to think doing away with guns will make it stop, you best start, Rock control, Knife Control, Car control, Bat Control, Shank Control (because there are jail Killings without Guns everyday) So Hell go Total control while your at it. I know bad people kill good people everyday but it happens with many different tools and objects. I say research how many lives are saved daily by guns, or deterred because of armed citizen's. The Only thing control does is make it harder on law abiding citizens, because criminal's are just that and it don't harm them in the least.

[Five Seasons]

Do you see where this kind of thinking eventually leads when you take it all to its logical conclusion? Make everything about gun ownership enough pain and anguish and eventually the problem solves itself. Throw enough hoops to jump through, and hurdles to jump over and eventually the guns will simply go away.

 

You're missing my point. For the final time, I'm not asking for legislation, I'm asking for education. It should not be easy for a teen to buy a gun. A teen can't smoke, vote, go to war, gamble, watch a dirty movie, buy a dirty magazine or drink. So if you were raised like me, you probably had a .22 and then a 12 gauge you used for hunting. You were taught gun safety very early on and if you did even the slightest dumb thing you got your ass chewed out. Heck, until I demonstrated I was responsible, my .22 was in the safe unless dad was with me.

 

The kids from columbine, sandy hook etc obviously weren't taught those things and had mental issues. If my sons display those signs, no matter how much it would hurt they wouldn't have access to guns... and no store should be allowed to sell to a minor either.

 

So, no I'm not asking for hoops. But is a simple background check and verification of age really that bad? Is it too much to ask that we lock or trigger guard our guns? How many of you don't have a safe?

 

[Five Seasons]

Is there anybody who really believes that the school mass killings never happened before because firearms were so difficult to obtain? Does anyone believe that no one ever walked into a school years ago and mowed down a bunch of kids because of magazine capacity was too small. Does anyone think that it is because there was no black guns that look nasty that kids-killing-kids has been happening only recently? You know what? It wasn't anything about guns, ammo, or accessories that has made any of these relatively recent atrocities happen. If there were no guns at all, these troubled kids and those of the future will be taking lessons from our terrorist buddies in the news, and will do the job even worse with homemade bombs. And by the way I am guessing that that is going to be the next generation of shock activities that these troubled minds will be soon conjuring up.

 

you're missing the forest through the trees. Guns don't kill people, bad people do. And today, there are more bad people. So what worked in the past does no longer work. Society has evolved. It's ok to smoke weed in some states, it's ok for gays to marry in most states. We evolve and in some aspects of culture we've gotten worse and more troubled. So stop dwelling on the past and realize that today's kids are messed up. That is what this concert is trying to address. Mental health. But simply clinging to the world you grew up in and ignoring that today's world is not the same will just lead to more and more tragedies.

[Five Seasons]

Lanza killed his mother. Thats working pretty hard in my opinion. After she was dead, what difference would it have made if she had the guns in a locked safe? He would have gotten the guns out of there and carried out the same thing.

 

The statement that the criminal woulndt sell to someone because they know what they might do is probably the funniest thing I have ever seen posted on this site.

 

Gun laws only apply to those that follow them.

 

1. the kids breaking in to a safe?

2. I didn't say wouldn't... I said might not. There is a criminal code. Prisons are full of them, but most don't tolerate pedophiles and rapists. The illegal gun trade is primarily made up of gangs selling to eachother to murder each other. Society looks the other way until one is sold to a kid who murders his classmates. I'd like to see the middle class white kid successfully pull off a street buy. Not impossible, but again he's either cracking a safe or going downtown where he's robbed of his money.

 

If the headline is "kid buys illegal gun off street" or "kid gets gun from mom's unlocked closet" which goes over better for gun rights?

[Five Seasons]

Thanks guys, I was wrong I posted it in other thread. I'll put it here too. Thanks again

Ok we know almost every mass murder had 2 things in common Mental problems & Gun free Zones! So now if you are foolish to think doing away with guns will make it stop, you best start, Rock control, Knife Control, Car control, Bat Control, Shank Control (because there are jail Killings without Guns everyday) So Hell go Total control while your at it. I know bad people kill good people everyday but it happens with many different tools and objects. I say research how many lives are saved daily by guns, or deterred because of armed citizen's. The Only thing control does is make it harder on law abiding citizens, because criminal's are just that and it don't harm them in the least.

 

so our kids should be armed? Or are we arming teachers? which citizens being armed do you expect to prevent these murders? What person walks into a school with a knife and kills 20+?

[Doc]

You're missing my point. For the final time, I'm not asking for legislation, I'm asking for education. It should not be easy for a teen to buy a gun. A teen can't smoke, vote, go to war, gamble, watch a dirty movie, buy a dirty magazine or drink. So if you were raised like me, you probably had a .22 and then a 12 gauge you used for hunting. You were taught gun safety very early on and if you did even the slightest dumb thing you got your ass chewed out. Heck, until I demonstrated I was responsible, my .22 was in the safe unless dad was with me.

 

The kids from columbine, sandy hook etc obviously weren't taught those things and had mental issues. If my sons display those signs, no matter how much it would hurt they wouldn't have access to guns... and no store should be allowed to sell to a minor either.

 

So, no I'm not asking for hoops. But is a simple background check and verification of age really that bad? Is it too much to ask that we lock or trigger guard our guns? How many of you don't have a safe?

 

Is it really easy for a teen to buy a gun? I mean we keep saying that, but I'm not so sure there isn't already laws or store policies against selling guns to minors. I know last time I bought a rifle (pre-Safe Act) I had to fill out a book's-worth of personal information. They did do a background check (age verification in that also). So what you are talking about already was in place. Trigger locks, I think from an education standpoint everything that can be said about that has been said, so I'm not sure where you go beyond that other than turning it into a law, which you say you are not asking for. The same thing with gun safes. Volumes have already been written about those, so other than writing laws, where do you go with that. So, I guess I'm not missing your point .... apparently you don't have one to miss.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1. the kids breaking in to a safe?

2. I didn't say wouldn't... I said might not. There is a criminal code. Prisons are full of them, but most don't tolerate pedophiles and rapists. The illegal gun trade is primarily made up of gangs selling to eachother to murder each other. Society looks the other way until one is sold to a kid who murders his classmates. I'd like to see the middle class white kid successfully pull off a street buy. Not impossible, but again he's either cracking a safe or going downtown where he's robbed of his money.

 

If the headline is "kid buys illegal gun off street" or "kid gets gun from mom's unlocked closet" which goes over better for gun rights?

 

You dont need to break into the safe when Mom is dead and you can grab the keys or combination and open it up.

 

You need better info on what the illegal gun trade is, how it usually works and that the sellers dont care, and dont want to know what the guns are used for. They are illegal guns, they know what they will most likely be involved in. Its pretty easy to make an illegal gun purchase, and middle class white kids have no problem getting them. Not all the dealers are gang bangers from the ghetto. There are plenty of illegal guns to be had out in the country and suburbs my friend.

[Huntscreek]

so our kids should be armed? Or are we arming teachers? which citizens being armed do you expect to prevent these murders? What person walks into a school with a knife and kills 20+?

Well lets See Court house's have armed guards and metal detectors, plus inmates are transported by armed correction officers. Now most State office buildings and Dept of Social service have them also. Now we have no guns protecting the most innocent in our society our children. The Governor the President and elected official's and their families have armed guards, and not OUR Children. I would have no problem having teachers that can get a CC permit have one, and fast tracked though that process. Is it not better to give a teacher the choice and their right to protect themselves and OUR children's life's rather than the lock down BS and wait until the become human shield's. What good is a gun at home when you need it. We guard others and everything else with firearm's but not the most valuable thing our children. How do you feel about our Military men and women not abled to be armed on base, Crazy isn't it. Freedom don't end when you enter another area or building in America, and if we lifted these BS laws life's would of and will be saved.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Huntscreek

[jjb4900]

I wonder how many of the guns used in these recent mass shootings were illegally obtained or owned............I bet most were legally bought and owned.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

You're missing my point. For the final time, I'm not asking for legislation, I'm asking for education. It should not be easy for a teen to buy a gun. A teen can't smoke, vote, go to war, gamble, watch a dirty movie, buy a dirty magazine or drink. So if you were raised like me, you probably had a .22 and then a 12 gauge you used for hunting. You were taught gun safety very early on and if you did even the slightest dumb thing you got your ass chewed out. Heck, until I demonstrated I was responsible, my .22 was in the safe unless dad was with me.

 

The kids from columbine, sandy hook etc obviously weren't taught those things and had mental issues. If my sons display those signs, no matter how much it would hurt they wouldn't have access to guns... and no store should be allowed to sell to a minor either.

 

So, no I'm not asking for hoops. But is a simple background check and verification of age really that bad? Is it too much to ask that we lock or trigger guard our guns? How many of you don't have a safe?

 

Where on earth has anyone condoned selling to minors? it currently IS illegal to do so.

[Doc]

you're missing the forest through the trees. Guns don't kill people, bad people do. And today, there are more bad people. So what worked in the past does no longer work. Society has evolved. It's ok to smoke weed in some states, it's ok for gays to marry in most states. We evolve and in some aspects of culture we've gotten worse and more troubled. So stop dwelling on the past and realize that today's kids are messed up. That is what this concert is trying to address. Mental health. But simply clinging to the world you grew up in and ignoring that today's world is not the same will just lead to more and more tragedies.

It seems like you accept an awful lot just based on societal evolution. Don't you ever take that one extra step to question why things are sliding downhill? Perhaps you will still wind up with the defeatist attitude that you have, or perhaps with a little energetic thinking and maybe even a national activity related to investigations of why kids are going berserk might actually be a step toward working on the causes instead of always flailing at a symptom. It's not a case of clinging to old ways, it is a case of not being so beaten down that your first thought is to throw in the towel everytime there is something that really should be faced head on.

[Five Seasons]

You dont need to break into the safe when Mom is dead and you can grab the keys or combination and open it up.

 

You need better info on what the illegal gun trade is, how it usually works and that the sellers dont care, and dont want to know what the guns are used for. They are illegal guns, they know what they will most likely be involved in. Its pretty easy to make an illegal gun purchase, and middle class white kids have no problem getting them. Not all the dealers are gang bangers from the ghetto. There are plenty of illegal guns to be had out in the country and suburbs my friend.

 

 

I guess I didn't realize I was talking to an expert on the gun trade. My point still stands, what headline sounds better? Illegal gun used in murder or the one taken from parent?

 

If the kid has access to a key or the combination, that's not necessarily a gun safe now is it? Don't be silly when you know my point is valid. Making the guns INACCESSIBLE to kids is what needs to happen.

 

Well lets See Court house's have armed guards and metal detectors, plus inmates are transported by armed correction officers. Now most State office buildings and Dept of Social service have them also. Now we have no guns protecting the most innocent in our society our children. The Governor the President and elected official's and their families have armed guards, and not OUR Children. I would have no problem having teachers that can get a CC permit have one, and fast tracked though that process. Is it not better to give a teacher the choice and their right to protect themselves and OUR children's life's rather than the lock down BS and wait until the become human shield's. What good is a gun at home when you need it. We guard others and everything else with firearm's but not the most valuable thing our children. How do you feel about our Military men and women not abled to be armed on base, Crazy isn't it. Freedom don't end when you enter another area or building in America, and if we lifted these BS laws life's would of and will be saved.

 

Do you have kids? There's no freaking way I want a teacher with a gun on her hip... and despite what you and your small circle of friends think, there's no way that ever happens.

 

I'm ok with armed guards. Many inner city schools already have them. But don't bitch when your taxes go up. Hell I paid over $3k for school taxes in NY. These armed guards aren't free. I'd write the check; but would you?

[Five Seasons]

It seems like you accept an awful lot just based on societal evolution. Don't you ever take that one extra step to question why things are sliding downhill? Perhaps you will still wind up with the defeatist attitude that you have, or perhaps with a little energetic thinking and maybe even a national activity related to investigations of why kids are going berserk might actually be a step toward working on the causes instead of always flailing at a symptom. It's not a case of clinging to old ways, it is a case of not being so beaten down that your first thought is to throw in the towel everytime there is something that really should be faced head on.

 

So at least I've given solutions... all you do is speak in philosophical terms. Lets hear some solutions doc... It must have been what, 40+ years since you were in school? How long since your kids graduated? Somehow I guess you're still connected so lets hear some solutions.

 

[Five Seasons]

Where on earth has anyone condoned selling to minors? it currently IS illegal to do so.

 

I get the vibe most here are full a total free for all with guns. No legislation what so ever. Am I wrong?

 

[jjb4900]

I get the vibe most here are full a total free for all with guns. No legislation what so ever. Am I wrong?

 

I was thinking the same thing........

[steve863]

What person walks into a school with a knife and kills 20+?

 

 

You see that's the point.  I can understand what Doc was saying in his post questioning why kids go into schools to shoot them up these days, while they didn't years ago.  I surely don't have a good answer for this, and probably no one has any definitive answers.  We all have theories, but I don't think anyone can prove any as fact.  I do know however, that if a kid did go into a school back in the 50's with his single shot squirrel gun, he most certainly would not have mowed down 20 kids with it in a few short minutes.  That's the difference here that many gun owners just can't seem to admit to.  If you can't see how an AR rifle or semi-auto pistol could cause more damage than a double barreled shotgun or revolver, then you guys will NEVER get it.  I am not calling for the ban of these weapons, but the complexion of the game has changed in the efficiency of firepower available today compared to what people owned a few decades ago.   I bet for many sick minded individuals it's become sort of something to look forward to when they would one day post their picture on TV and newspapers that they've murdered a bunch of people with some sort of modern quick firing/loading weapon.  Did we gun enthusiasts help create such a culture by wanting to own all this para-military type weaponry and make them the "cool" weapon to own??   You guys can tell me.  I surely have my own theories about it all.

[Huntscreek]

I guess I didn't realize I was talking to an expert on the gun trade. My point still stands, what headline sounds better? Illegal gun used in murder or the one taken from parent?

 

If the kid has access to a key or the combination, that's not necessarily a gun safe now is it? Don't be silly when you know my point is valid. Making the guns INACCESSIBLE to kids is what needs to happen.

 

 

Do you have kids? There's no freaking way I want a teacher with a gun on her hip... and despite what you and your small circle of friends think, there's no way that ever happens.

 

I'm ok with armed guards. Many inner city schools already have them. But don't bitch when your taxes go up. Hell I paid over $3k for school taxes in NY. These armed guards aren't free. I'd write the check; but would you?

Yes I have Kids and one will be teaching school soon. Who are you to say who should have a gun or better yet exercise their Constitutional Rights. I don't like some of your 1st Amendment Exercise but I respect them, you have that right. The main reason you have that right You got it Good Guys with Guns. Taxes are high for BS Laws like Safe Act and give outs, but one I would not mind writing the check for would be protection of Our Children. Now small Circle of Friend are you sure its a Small circle or small thinking on your part. I see the Party of Tolerance poking out. Hey My daughter (Future Teacher) is a dead shot been shooting her whole life and she would not be so easily a victim if People woke up. If I was her I'd carry and weigh the options good or bad later, Who would of Cried Gun Control if a Teacher would of put a bullet in Lanzers head before his 1st shot, We will never know because people of your mindset think guns are for hunting.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

so our kids should be armed? Or are we arming teachers? which citizens being armed do you expect to prevent these murders? What person walks into a school with a knife and kills 20+?

 

http://time.com/55356/at-least-20-stabbed-at-pa-high-school/