NYC has a whopping 66 assembly districts! Thoughts?

[mike rossi]

What are your thoughts on the following paragraphs: 

 

NY City, which is comprised of Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, Bronx, and Yonkers has a whopping 66 assembly districts! (Queens = 18, Brooklyn = 20, Staten Island = 4, Manhattan = 12, Bronx = 11 and Yonkers = 1).

 

​Downstate republicans in the Assembly?

 

 

NY City only has two republicans elected to the assembly over those 66 districts, and both of them are in Staten Island. Joe Borelli is a republican from Annadale, which is assembly district 62.

 

Nicole Malliokakis is the other republican from Rosebank, which is assembly district 64. However, Malliokakis is endorsed by the Humane Society of the US and other anti-hunting organizations, and likely receives campaign contributions from them as well.

[Rebel Darling]

What I find most strange is that the NYS Senate district lines are population based as well.  Whereas the federal government compromised on the distribution of power through allocating two Senators per state to balance the power of population density in the House, NYS chose to base the entirety of its representative government on solely a population based model.  Granted, the NYS Constitution was written before the US Constitution, but it's still an unusual system in a country that largely adopted the balance of power system as written at the federal level. 

 

Think about the distribution of representative power, despite the efforts of gerrymandered districts, under this model.

 

We do have the possibility of convening a state constitutional convention to discuss this, and other constitutional issues.  The question of whether or not to convene will be on the 2017 general election ballot.

 

As a side note, there are upstate legislators, both democratic and republican that support hunting initiatives.

[BizCT]

Doesn't look good for hunting opening in region 2 anytime soon

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[shawnhu]

Doesn't look good for hunting opening in region 2 anytime soon

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Hunting is allowed in region 2 as of currently. You just need to know how and with what.

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[mike rossi]

Legislators have an office in Albany and an office where they represent. NYC has 66 assembly reps alone, plus state senators. 

 

I would be hard - pressed to believe two things:

 

1) Any hunters living in those districts ever walks in the offices and talks shop. Or even calls, emails, or sends a letter to them through the post office. 

 

2) That even if a local hunter did walk into his representatives office and would leave actually feeling "represented". Yet, a local anti - hunter would have a much different experience.

 

Lets stop with the bull on this post please. I find it hard to believe ( but not impossible to believe) that some of you do not understand the issue. Nobody has suggested, that for example, lets say - Elmo's assembly and senate rep can create hunting opportunity in NYC. 

 

However, I think everyone understands, that the Legislators in NYC do indeed weigh in on hunting matters statewide. I am pointing out the irony, that they only hear from or heed, the antis, not the hunters who they represent who live in their districts. I do not know how many hunters that is, but if NYC demographics are comparable to New Jersey, there may be 50,000 to 70,000 hunters living in NYC. 

[ATbuckhunter]

People would be surprised how many assembly members from NYC come from families with hunters. I know the assemblyman's father my brother worked for was a hunter, so some do understand the need for hunting...he wasn't a republican either.

[EspressoBuzz]

People would be surprised how many assembly members from NYC come from families with hunters. I know the assemblyman's father my brother worked for was a hunter, so some do understand the need for hunting...he wasn't a republican either.

 

Hunters = Republicans?

[ATbuckhunter]

Hunters = Republicans?

Not at all...that's what I was saying. Mike mentioned republicans in his original post so I thought id mention it.

Edited January 4, 2016 by ATbuckhunter

[BizCT]

Mike - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 50-70k hunters in NYC is nowhere close. I wouldn't be surprised if its under 10K, maybe even under 5K.

 

Around 1/10th of 1% (i.e., 0.1%) seems about right, and given 8-9M people living in NYC.

Edited January 4, 2016 by Biz-R-OWorld

[mike rossi]

Well, we need to find out how many reside there. It is difficult to get that info from the DEC, thanks in part to the state hunting organizations who seem to have some good intentions, but I am not sure if this policy does more good than harm. 

 

I agree with those who think democrats hunt. We did a report on that too, as well as how party majority effects hunting legislation - I dont want to fill this thread up with those reports, but just saying I agree and those reports are on the website. 

 

I think there are many hunters who think that way about republicans though, so strong is that belief, it would be remiss not to comment on it. I also think the Humane Society of the US knew exactly what they were doing when they reached out to  Malliokakis. As wealthy as the HSUS is, they figured they would be able to control the NY Legislature with a targeted  plan, rather than contributing funds to everybody's campaign. Here they got only two republicans on the entire assembly in NYC, they already got many of the dems in their pocket, why go after all the dems and both repubs.... They know how to spread their money. 

[Rebel Darling]

As a matter of course, and if you're attempting to persuade legislators on the passage of legislation that would benefit the hunting community, I suggest approaching the chairs of the Environmental Conservation Committees, and the members on those committees. Steve Englebright (D) is the Assembly Chair. His district is on LI. Tom O'Mara ® is the chair on the Senate side, and his district is in Western NY - I can't remember exactly where off the top of my head...

Malliotakis isn't on the EnCon Committee, so my guess would be that she's less influential at the beginning stages. In the past couple of years the Legislature voted to allow for rifle hunting in Albany and Schenectady counties... I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think Malliotakis voted for those bills. I'll look into that, and post that info in a bit.

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[Rebel Darling]

Malliotakis voted to allow for big-game rifle hunting in Albany County in 2014, and voted to allow big-game rifle hunting in Schenectady County in 2015. 

 

2014, SB 5714 -

http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=S05714&term=2013&Summary=Y&Votes=Y

 

2015, SB 5316 -

http://www.assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=%0D%0A&bn=s5316&term=2015&Summary=Y&Votes=Y

 

She might not be that unfriendly towards hunting interests...  It's just two bills.

[wildcat junkie]

People would be surprised how many assembly members from NYC come from families with hunters. I know the assemblyman's father my brother worked for was a hunter, so some do understand the need for hunting...he wasn't a republican either.

 

 

Hunters = Republicans?

 

 

Not at all...that's what I was saying. Mike mentioned republicans in his original post so I thought id mention it.

Democrats hunt? No way!

[hunter49]

  It's been said before,  we need to get rid of NYC. & leave the rest of the state alone!  District of NYC. or NY state.  And the rest of us can be Upstate NY.!

[Skillet]

I get it now. This is clearly a political thread, but it is allowable in the hunting section of the site, because it is endearing to democrats / liberals.

If this were a thread about a tea party convention, the usual lefties would be on the warpath, demanding the thread be relegated to the obscurity of the political section.

[jjb4900]

  It's been said before,  we need to get rid of NYC. & leave the rest of the state alone!  District of NYC. or NY state.  And the rest of us can be Upstate NY.!

[mike rossi]

As a matter of course, and if you're attempting to persuade legislators on the passage of legislation that would benefit the hunting community, I suggest approaching the chairs of the Environmental Conservation Committees, and the members on those committees. Steve Englebright (D) is the Assembly Chair. His district is on LI. Tom O'Mara ® is the chair on the Senate side, and his district is in Western NY - I can't remember exactly where off the top of my head...

Malliotakis isn't on the EnCon Committee, so my guess would be that she's less influential at the beginning stages. In the past couple of years the Legislature voted to allow for rifle hunting in Albany and Schenectady counties... I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think Malliotakis voted for those bills. I'll look into that, and post that info in a bit.

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Malliotakis clearly is anti-hunting. Despite her vote on the rifle bill she has sponsored many, many anti hunting bills and has voted AGAINST many, many pro hunting bills.  She is endorsed by the HSUS and several state-level anti hunting organizations.

 

Also, you are over-emphasizing the role of the senate and assembly encon committees. Senator Avella, is the vice chair of the senate encon commmittee, and he too, is a staunch anti-hunter.

 

The Senate Chair of the Encon committee  you ask about is Thomas O'Mara. This is all a little off topic, however, we completely addressed this in this article: http://nydovehunting.weebly.com/the-new-york-state-legislature-up-close.html

 

Or, just look at the cartoon in the article if you dont read - we know the process, and we know the people involved in the process. Perhaps we know it better than any other organization in the state. 

Edited January 5, 2016 by mike rossi

[mike rossi]

  It's been said before,  we need to get rid of NYC. & leave the rest of the state alone!  District of NYC. or NY state.  And the rest of us can be Upstate NY.!

 

From that perspective, you are missing a large point of this thread. NYC is part of NY state, but the hunters who live in NYC are not given a voice. 

 

What exasperates that, is that anti-hunters have a strong voice among the 66 assembly districts.

 

You got the part right that NYC  Legislators have a say so about hunting policy over the entire state. But you are missing the point that they are not at all representing  the minority of their constituents who live in NYC and hunt. NY Dove Hunting believes, with organization and leadership that this can be improved. I would like to discuss the means to such improvement, not get into all this extraneous and irrelevant bull.

[mike rossi]

I get it now. 

 

Apparently, you do not.....

[mike rossi]

Two more things, rebel darling, where in THIS thread do I discuss introducing a bill? 

 

The other thing you seem to not be aware of, and thereby are misleading people is about negotiation. A vote for a pro hunting bill, such as the rifle bill,  does NOT necessarily indicate even a slight approval of hunting, here is why: 

 

We (NY Dove Hunting) tell our advocates, when talking to legislatures they might say, for example, the FWS allows the DEC to set a dove season 100? days long and murder up to 15 doves a day. This bill, if passed, only sets an 80 season and hunters can only murder 10 doves a day.

 

So, when the DEC Legislative Affairs Branch Lobbies the Legislature on behalf of a rifle bill, they are doing so because it will increase harvest to better meet  population goals and it will likely boost conservation funding because center-fire rifles will be purchased. 

 

So how does the DEC LAB approach members of the Legislature who oppose hunting? They might use a narrative such as center-fire rifles are more efficient and result in more humane harvesting of deer which need population management...... The underlying suggestion is center-fire rifles are more humane than other weapons and deer hunting is already occurring. Not only is that palatable to the Legislator herself or himself, but it gives them a bone they can throw at their constituents / donors. For example the lawmaker can say to constituents:"  we were not able to ban deer hunting, but this bill made it more humane"..... 

 

Such is the way its done. Most of you all just have not heard about it or figured it out.....

 

Hopefully, this conversation can redirect back to getting NYC hunters enumerated and a voice....... 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by mike rossi

[Skillet]

Apparently, you do not.....

My comment wasn't directed at you Mike. I'm not arguing the validity of what you're saying, either. What you're trying to accomplish is a service to NY hunters.

I was trying to point out the hypocrisy among the lefties on the site.

I apologize if I derailed the thread.

[Rebel Darling]

Two more things, rebel darling, where in THIS thread do I discuss introducing a bill?

The other thing you seem to not be aware of, and thereby are misleading people is about negotiation. A vote for a pro hunting bill, such as the rifle bill, does NOT necessarily indicate even a slight approval of hunting, here is why:

We (NY Dove Hunting) tell our advocates, when talking to legislatures they might say, for example, the FWS allows the DEC to set a dove season 100? days long and murder up to 15 doves a day. This bill, if passed, only sets an 80 season and hunters can only murder 10 doves a day.

So, when the DEC Legislative Affairs Branch Lobbies the Legislature on behalf of a rifle bill, they are doing so because it will increase harvest to better meet population goals and it will likely boost conservation funding because center-fire rifles will be purchased.

So how does the DEC LAB approach members of the Legislature who oppose hunting? They might use a narrative such as center-fire rifles are more efficient and result in more humane harvesting of deer which need population management...... The underlying suggestion is center-fire rifles are more humane than other weapons and deer hunting is already occurring. Not only is that palatable to the Legislator herself or himself, but it gives them a bone they can throw at their constituents / donors. For example the lawmaker can say to constituents:" we were not able to ban deer hunting, but this bill made it more humane".....

Such is the way its done. Most of you all just have not heard about it or figured it out.....

Hopefully, this conversation can redirect back to getting NYC hunters enumerated and a voice.......

Hi, Mike.

I was trying to be helpful.

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[Tacti_Steve]

New to the forum here and jumping in late but this is a topic I'm passionate about. As mentioned earlier in the thread there is the vote for a constitutional convention coming up. Voting yes for it doesn't guarantee any changes but it doesn't hurt us either. It is the easiest way to get any meaningful changes like this done. I'm not saying splitting off NYC is the right answer (but usually wouldn't oppose it) but there are other ways we can shift the balance of power. 

[Steve D]

^{Not trying to start anything but here is a way to fix it http://www.newamsterdamny.org/}

[mike rossi]

I got frustrated here and apologize. Until I reminded myself that these kinds of responses show us what info we need to focus on and get out to the hunting community. However, are do not enjoy being a polemicist or an iconoclast. 

 

In order to avoid making convoluted subjects even more convoluted, requires discipline in staying relevant to the topic.I tried to point out, the annex NYC from the state narrative actually alters the focus from the immediate problem - if a crash victim is bleeding to death and while treating him the doctor discovers he also has cancer, he does not stop treating the bleeding which will kill in seconds and focus on the cancer which kills over time. 

 

Realistically, annexing NYC probably is never going to happen, and it certainly is not going to happen anytime soon. So lets focus on solutions that are practical and actually will work. 

 

Another enemy of finding solutions is focusing on the difficulty. I know its difficult first of all, and second of all this is often how trolls undermine initiatives they do not want to advance, or when they do not like the person proposing the initiative. Or they are simply google trolls who make one penny a click for their employee, which adds up to a lot of money with an army of people on line 24/7/365.... 

 

So, the goal here, is to get a list of hunters that live in NYC, and an outlet, such as a newsletter and/or online presence to keep them updated and engaged. I have a few ideas, I would like to here yours, and get a few guys to step up and launch this. And then stick at it after it is launched. 

 

As far as the tone here about this being vested in the dove matter: we disagree with a few on this board who say the majority of NYC hunters are not interested in dove or other small game hunting because of travel time. That theory seems to be based on the premise that NYC hunters are seeking to obtain wild game meat the cheapest way possible.We feel that most hunters are out for the experience, although part of the experience is obtaining and using wild game meats. 

 

For us to create just another organization that focuses on whitetail deer, turkey, and gun rights, would be like throwing sand on the beach or salt into the ocean. Those of you who are concerned or passionate about those matters should create such an organization, rather than distort the goal of organizing NYC hunters so that they not only have their own voice, but they can be a voice along with upstate and Long Island hunters - because as of now the only voice regarding hunting matters out of NYC is from the antis. 1% or .01% or .001% of the population does not matter, a recent article we published explained that as well. Additionally, as we stated, we have indeed been speaking to NYC lawmakers. Among those NYC lawmakers we are beginning to get a sense of  who is paying attention to us, who finds us credible and who is rejecting us. As we continue to educate them and gauge their receptiveness, we will have acquired significant info about them, as well as influenced the thinking of some of them.