Donald Trump says he would implement nationwide stop and frisk policy

[diplomat019]

Donald Trump says he would implement nationwide stop and frisk policy; forgets controversial tactic was ruled unconstitutional in 2013

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-implement-nationwide-stop-frisk-policing-article-1.2801136

[Core]

Stop and frisk is not unconstitutional. It was deemed unconstitutional in the way NYC was applying it, a few years ago.

I think it should be unconstitutional, but it technically is not and can still be used and is used by police departments.

[The_Field_Ager]

By the time George Soros is done creating social unrest, stop and search will be the least of our problems

[diplomat019]

Lets not give them a head start to martial law.......

[airedale]

As far as I am concerned stop and frisk used right is a good common sense way of getting many of the illegal firearms off the streets and bring down these crazy shootings that have become common and rampant. 

The law can stop and frisk me all they want, it would not bother me one bit.

Edited September 22, 2016 by airedale

[diplomat019]

Airedale.  Cant disagree more.  Might as well register all our guns so we know that bad guys dont have them.  That would make us safer wouldnt it?   Not like the govt would overstep their boundaries.  Right?   

[airedale]

6 minutes ago, diplomat019 said:

Airedale.  Cant disagree more.  Might as well register all our guns so we know that bad guys dont have them.  That would make us safer wouldnt it?   Not like the govt would overstep their boundaries.  Right?   

Sorry not buying into to that line of thought, stop and frisk done right has nothing to do with registering guns, by the way here in NY my handguns are basically already registered. 

Everyone is clamouring about something being having to be done about all these rampant shootings with some common sense, this is about as common sense as we can get without trampling the second amendment.  

Like I said the law can stop and frisk me all they want, I ain't worried because I am not doing anything that is not legal and so should anyone else that is following the laws.

 

Al

[Core]

3 hours ago, airedale said:

As far as I am concerned stop and frisk used right is a good common sense way of getting many of the illegal firearms off the streets and bring down these crazy shootings that have become common and rampant. 

The law can stop and frisk me all they want, it would not bother me one bit.

It would bother me. And though I absolutely recognize it could be effective in reducing crime, it is also an activity the US shouldn't have. It's quite literally right there with "papers please comrade". It gives free reign to a cop to stop you for any reason and hassle you. It's one step away from a shakeup for money.

The shootings are rampant because inner city communities are falling apart. Their family units are completely disintegrated. Removing guns would help, yes, but there are other ways to help as well.

[Uptown Redneck]

I love it when Little Hitler Trump offers up more of his asinine ideas, it only serves to remind people of just what an idiot he is! Another Trump proposal that will only bring more votes to Hilary.   

[diplomat019]

Air.  Done right everything is perfect.  But rarely its done right.  What is the federal govt doing right at the moment?  Except for taxing us.  Seriously.  

 

In my opinion its about the principal.  Why arent u willing to compare the gun argument to this?   If you have nothing to hide go register your ammo and firearms.  You wont consent to that yet you are ok with police searching you since you have nothing to hide. I have nothing to hide illegally but im not living in east germany so i will not let people invade myself or family like that  

 

i think combatting gun violence can start with truly enforcing the laws on book   Enough with plea deals   Also   We have had some good ideas brought up from both sides to try and curb the issue but neither is willing to budge  

 

Edited September 22, 2016 by diplomat019

[airedale]

1 hour ago, Core said:

The shootings are rampant because inner city communities are falling apart. Their family units are completely disintegrated. Removing guns would help, yes, but there are other ways to help as well.

The rampant shootings along with drugs are the main reason inner city communities are falling apart and turning into war zones. Something has to be done and stop and frisk seems pretty reasonable and a common sense course of action unless you are someone that is up to no good like having an illegal firearm or a pocket full of drugs if you play by the law you should have nothing to worry about.

Also Cops do not have free reign when it comes to stop and frisk and I do not buy into the payola slant at all.

Stop and frisk is when police temporarily detain somebody and pat down their outer clothing when there are specific articulable facts leading a reasonable police officer to believe a person is armed and dangerous. It is not necessary for the officer to articulate or identify a specific crime they think is being committed, only that a set of factual circumstances exist that would lead a reasonable officer to have a reasonable suspicion that criminal activity is occurring. Reasonable suspicion is one step below probable cause and one step above a hunch.

A "frisk" by definition is a type of search that requires a lawful stop. It is best thought of as a separate act, but in practice, a suspect who refuses to answer questions in a stop may be providing the officer with sufficient justification to frisk. A frisk should not be for anything other than a dangerous weapon or contraband. However, if other evidence, like a suspected drug container, is felt, it can be seized by the officer under the "plain feel" doctrine. The test for plain feel is that the item's contraband nature be "immediately apparent".

Edited September 22, 2016 by airedale

[Core]

The rampant shootings along with drugs are the main reason inner city communities are falling apart and turning into war zones.

Why are they rampant?

At the heart of it stop and frisk allows a person with a badge and gun to stop you because they don't like the way you look. I don't mean race; it could be anything from race to clothes to your sports jersey, in theory. And they can claim whatever they like about why they did it.

As you spell it out it makes sense. Some people just look legitimately "shifty" and there is a good chance they are up to no good, but I still think it ventures too far from the freedom and into the security realm (trading one for the other).

The problem with the law is it allows any cop to stop anybody and come up with a bs excuse (and we know cops have done that a lot in the past) about why they did it. So you can be walking down the street, get stopped, hassled when you've done nothing wrong and may in fact not have appeared shifty at all. But the cop doesn't like you for some reason so stops you anyway. 

[airedale]

 I totally agree with strictly enforcing the gun laws we have on the books and ending the plea deals. And like I said above here in NY I already have to register my handguns like it or not.

Al

[airedale]

So Core what is your common sense solution  for getting those illegal guns and drugs out of the hands of those folks destroying those communities?

Edited September 22, 2016 by airedale

[Uptown Redneck]

Its amazing that when the jackass that Is Trump proposes an outrageous idea his mindless supporters blindly agree with him, no matter how absurd the proposal,  yet had such a proposal come from Hilary's campaign all those here who support it would immediately be calling it unconstitutional, illegal, communist, a complete overreach of government and many other things, some going so far as saying it would be the start of a civil war. Its amazing how blind devotion to a moron allows for people to easily give up the beliefs they have upon numerous occasions claimed to believe in, in this instance removing government from people's lives, yet they have no problem allowing that same government to, without cause, randomly stop and search the public at large.    

[airedale]

So Redneck as I asked Core what common sense solution do you propose doing to solve the rampant illegal guns, murders-shootings and drug problems wrecking the inner cities? I am all ears.

 

Al

Edited September 22, 2016 by airedale

[Core]

22 minutes ago, airedale said:

So Core what is your common sense solution  for getting those illegal guns and drugs out of the hands of those folks destroying those communities?

Definitely decriminalize marijuana. Consider decriminalizing other drugs including hardcore ones. A few others nations have done it and to surprising effect.

Not sure on guns. I see them as symptom of a problem, not the problem. In the suburbs gun ownership rates are higher than in inner city, but kids don't run around with them. Their life is not in the place they feel they need them. Gun violence barely exists for the huge bulk of the nation, even among gun nuts. It is highly and wildly overconcentrated in certain areas.  Inner city violence is made worse by guns, but without guns it would still be degrees worse than elsewhere. I do think the single biggest factor is the lack of family unit. Kids are born out of wedlock to young moms without educations or jobs and their sperm donor fathers are nowhere to be seen. It's a recipe for disaster, and disaster is thus cooked up time and again.

[Core]

11 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

Its amazing that when the jackass that Is Trump proposes an outrageous idea his mindless supporters blindly agree with him, no matter how absurd the proposal,  yet had such a proposal come from Hilary's campaign all those here who support it would immediately be calling it unconstitutional, illegal, communist, a complete overreach of government and many other things, some going so far as saying it would be the start of a civil war. Its amazing how blind devotion to a moron allows for people to easily give up the beliefs they have upon numerous occasions claimed to believe in, in this instance removing government from people's lives, yet they have no problem allowing that same government to, without cause, randomly stop and search the public at large.    

Well I'm sure this street goes both ways. I see no more blind loyalty among trump followers than hillary's. The country suffers hugely from political "loyalty".

As for "blindly agreeing" airedale clearly supports stop & frisk but he has no problem explaining why, which is the antithesis of blind loyalty.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

18 minutes ago, airedale said:

So Redneck as I asked Core what common sense solution do you propose doing to solve the rampant illegal guns, murders-shootings and drug problems wrecking the inner cities? I am all ears.

 

Al

Might have to rephrase that question. He like the drug availability just as it is or easier. 

[Uptown Redneck]

16 minutes ago, Core said:

Definitely decriminalize marijuana. Consider decriminalizing other drugs including hardcore ones. A few others nations have done it and to surprising effect.

 

I agree 100%

The war on drugs is nothing but a complete failure. Just as prohibition failed to stop the demand for alcohol and enriched criminal gangs the war on drugs has had the same effect and has failed to do anything to stop the flow of drugs.

As for guns lets start with mandatory background checks for EVERY gun purchase ANYWHERE, then outlaw the sale and possession of "assault weapons" including any magazine over 6 rounds for a rifle (which is the maximum allowed for hunting in NYS)    

Background checks for the purchase of ammo (if you're all ok with being stopped and searched because you all aren't doing anything illegal, then you all shouldn't have any problems with any background checks because as you all stated you all act within the law) 

Mandatory jail time for anyone either possessing an illegal gun or using one to commit a crime, not to be served concurrently with any other sentence

Edited September 22, 2016 by Uptown Redneck

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

As for guns lets start with mandatory background checks for EVERY gun purchase ANYWHERE, then outlaw the sale and possession of "assault weapons" including any magazine over 6 rounds for a rifle (which is the maximum allowed for hunting in NYS)    

Background checks for the purchase of ammo (if you're all ok with being stopped and searched because you all aren't doing anything illegal, then you all shouldn't have any problems with any background checks because as you all stated you all act within the law) 

Mandatory jail time for anyone either possessing an illegal gun or using one to commit a crime, not to be served concurrently with any other sentence

believe it or not I won't take many exceptions to this except where you and I can't get on the same page of what an assault weapon is. The semi's are functionally the same and impossible to separate. 

I would add a National carry permit that serves as the background check for guns and ammo. Just like a license. valid until cause for revocation. 

[airedale]

8 minutes ago, Uptown Redneck said:

Mandatory jail time for anyone either possessing an illegal gun or using one to commit a crime, not to be served concurrently with any other sentence

That sounds good to me, now how do we go about getting all those illegal guns out of the hands of those that do not have them legally?

Edited September 22, 2016 by airedale

[Core]

1 hour ago, Uptown Redneck said:

I agree 100%

The war on drugs is nothing but a complete failure. Just as prohibition failed to stop the demand for alcohol and enriched criminal gangs the war on drugs has had the same effect and has failed to do anything to stop the flow of drugs.

As for guns lets start with mandatory background checks for EVERY gun purchase ANYWHERE, then outlaw the sale and possession of "assault weapons" including any magazine over 6 rounds for a rifle (which is the maximum allowed for hunting in NYS)    

Background checks for the purchase of ammo (if you're all ok with being stopped and searched because you all aren't doing anything illegal, then you all shouldn't have any problems with any background checks because as you all stated you all act within the law) 

Mandatory jail time for anyone either possessing an illegal gun or using one to commit a crime, not to be served concurrently with any other sentence

I generally disagree with mandatory minimums because too many people in prison over nonsense.

Not huge on more gun laws in general; I think we need no more laws (I have no problem with background check on all purchases, however) because guns are too often demonized at the expense of completely ignoring the people who use them. AWs are a great example. They are constantly in the media and though they are disproportionately used in mass shootings, as a portion of shootings in any given year they make up a tiny percentage of deaths. By far most people with AWs are gun enthusiasts--legal ones who never do anything but shoot paper.

[airedale]

 

4 hours ago, Core said:

Consider decriminalizing other drugs including hardcore ones. A few others nations have done it and to surprising effect.

Where are these utopian nations where hard drugs are legal? 

Every day, 78 people in the United States die from an opiate overdose — 29 of them from heroin, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That's more than 10,500 deaths a year attributed to heroin and more than 28,000 deaths from opiate overdoses. 

If the above is happening with just those two drugs, it is not hard for me to imagine what would happen in time if hard drugs were made to be legal and the spigot was turned on.

As for marijuana like cigarettes there is going to be no free lunch smoking that stuff especially long term health wise. Colorado will be a good test to see how legal works out on the crime side.

Edited September 23, 2016 by airedale

[LJC]

10 hours ago, airedale said:

As far as I am concerned stop and frisk used right is a good common sense way of getting many of the illegal firearms off the streets and bring down these crazy shootings that have become common and rampant. 

The law can stop and frisk me all they want, it would not bother me one bit.

The cops know where the bad guys , gangs hang out in the inercitys  you put stop in frisk in those areas shootings would drop to almost 0  they let those scumbags run Wild in some of these cities like Chicago thats why it's so bad there