Topo maps.

[Bionic]

I have been reading a little on bigcwoodsvtype hunting scenarios, because where I hunt is jist chunks of woods, no agricultural fields, or fields of any sort.  I have some land near me that is 13k acres of state land, andcanother chunk that is 1100 acres, all dense wood.  I am trying to learn about the key areas to peak at as far as topo maps go.  Are saddles the top of a hill? Like a flat summit? Or are saddles the lower thin valley in between two parallel hills? 

I see that there is a feature on a topo map of the land, that has a stream running lengthwise in the lower valley of two parallel hills.  Is this a type of area I should be interested in for buck hunting?

anyone mind sharing info about their experiences with topo maps, and finding buck sign?

This is all too late to bevfoing homework now, its just the land I have permission on, is becoming a bit of a discouragement due to the land owner walking the 100 acres after a gunshot in the district is heard(shots that are obviously miles away).  I feel like the landowner has been pushing deer off.

Thanks

 

[stoneam2006]

I use topo and sat maps on Google maps and onx app. Look at both collectively look for shells and other features on topo and compare them to features on Sat map. I like looking for openings and nice shelf and Ridge lines

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[BKhunter]

Saddles are good to look for also benches and drainages. Look for creek bottoms too. Anything that basically has a travel route on has a different contour. Once you have some spots picked out the only thing that will really tell you if you're right is boots on the ground. You can save yourself some mindless walking though by having these points of interest picked out before you venture out.

[Bionic]

So when you say shelf, is that a little flat top someplace on a hilltop?  

Ridgeline would be at the top of the ridge going lengthwise following that ridge? Not half way up, or two-thirds? 

I watched hill country bucks a few times before trying to make sense of all this, but that video seems to describe larger scale hills/features than what I have here.

[Bionic]

I need to google these terms.  When I hear drainages, I'm picturing little creaks in the bottom of parallel hills like a "V" but then in my mind thats also a creek bottom.  

[moog5050]

 

5 minutes ago, Bionic said:

So when you say shelf, is that a little flat top someplace on a hilltop?  

Ridgeline would be at the top of the ridge going lengthwise following that ridge? Not half way up, or two-thirds? 

I watched hill country bucks a few times before trying to make sense of all this, but that video seems to describe larger scale hills/features than what I have here.

saddles are lower areas between two ridges (like the shape of a saddle viewed from the side), but not typically the valley.

Shelves are flat areas on the sides of ridges - usually good bedding

Ridge line is the top of the ridge - Dan suggests looking at the 1/3 from the top on the leaward side (non predominant wind side) of a ridge since that is where thermals and predominant wind meet making it easy for a deer to scent both sides.

Valleys can be very productive but tough to hunt due to swirling winds.

Draws leading out of valleys can also be very good (thinking of tight pinch where two ridges meet on higher ground - the V leading up to the top between the ridges is the draw.

Hope that helps with terminology.

[moog5050]

As an aside, when hunting that 1/3 from the top, hunt higher than that line in the morning (shooting down) since thermals lift your scent above the trail and lower than that line in the evening since thermals will draw your scent below the trail.

Edited October 11, 2016 by moog5050

[Bionic]

Hey moog, I really do appreciate the explanations! I really do, thank you.

 

this all applies in heavily forested areas where visibility is anywhere from 10'-200'?  

Also, with the thermals, etc if elevation changes say 50-100' is that enough elevation change to apply this ridge principles, etc?  Seems these elevation changes are not very drastic but more gentle in my area.

[Bionic]

Hey moog, I really do appreciate the explanations! I really do, thank you.

 

this all applies in heavily forested areas where visibility is anywhere from 10'-200'?  

Also, with the thermals, etc if elevation changes say 50-100' is that enough elevation change to apply this ridge principles, etc?  Seems these elevation changes are not very drastic but more gentle in my area.

[moog5050]

6 minutes ago, Bionic said:

Hey moog, I really do appreciate the explanations! I really do, thank you.

 

this all applies in heavily forested areas where visibility is anywhere from 10'-200'?  

Also, with the thermals, etc if elevation changes say 50-100' is that enough elevation change to apply this ridge principles, etc?  Seems these elevation changes are not very drastic but more gentle in my area.

I am far from an expert, but I would think that the same principles apply whether its 50-100ft elevation changes or more.  In the end, its pretty much based on wind movement and deer behavior.  I know we have benches/shelves that are great bedding areas with similar 50-100ft elevation changes, draws that are common travel corridors and deer do use that 1/3 from the top of the ridge a lot from both bedding and travel.  Also keep in mind to check the horizontal points.  We also have a few valley spots that are great, but wind is tricky.  Good luck.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Long gentle sloping finger ridges can be hot spots for travel routes if there is bedding or feed on the ridges. You have to at least look at these on Google earth or some other satellite program becasue even with all the "perfect" features if there is only large mature trees with little understory it can be barren. This will only help you isolate areas that may hold what you are looking for and Google can be years old information too. Gotta get boots on the ground to scout. 

I would also look for areas that are swampy, old beaver flows and features that lead to and from them. One of the best areas I have hunting in big woods is a gentle sloping finger leading from a swamp up to a steep sided table top that is loaded with oaks.  That finger is loaded every years with rubs and scrapes and is a main travel route. 

[grampy]

Also look for deep cuts or gullies on hillsides. As it will create deer travel pinch points at the top and bottom.

[Bionic]

Moog, i understand, but all input is valuable.  I have been hunting for almost 20 yrs, and it took 18 years to get a chance at a nice buck.  

 

All my years of walking, scouting have really never helped much, I cant see deer tracks in thick leaves, if there is no mud from waterways/shorelines.  I have always been a "luck" hunter, always spent time hunting, but always same stand location, and never considered scent/wind.  This topo talk is to start a new hunter of me.  

Culvercreek- Now these finger ridges, will they be traveling up/down the hill on these fingers? I'm assuming these are sort of like a bump in the hill ? 

 

Grampy- so look for indents in hill areas? Then the direction of deer travel is up/down or along the hill?

thanks everyone 

[moog5050]

Good luck Bionic.  Greater knowledge will yield better results in my opinion.  Good for you on learning new tricks even after 20 years.  If you can up the odds by knowing where deer typically bed and travel based on topography, you are halfway there.

[grampy]

26 minutes ago, Bionic said:

Moog, i understand, but all input is valuable.  I have been hunting for almost 20 yrs, and it took 18 years to get a chance at a nice buck.  

 

All my years of walking, scouting have really never helped much, I cant see deer tracks in thick leaves, if there is no mud from waterways/shorelines.  I have always been a "luck" hunter, always spent time hunting, but always same stand location, and never considered scent/wind.  This topo talk is to  

Culvercreek- Now these finger ridges, will they be traveling up/down the hill on these fingers? I'm assuming these are sort of like a bump in the hill ? 

Along a hill or mountain, you will have water drainage going down the side. Over hundreds if not thousands of years, the water cuts a deep and steep sided cut or gully going down hill. The local deer tend to go around the very top and bottom where it is not so steep, to avoid the steepest and deepest  parts in the middle. This creates a classic funnel as the deer are concentrated to a smaller travel corridor to get by the gully.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Grampy- so look for indents in hill areas? Then the direction of deer travel is up/down or along the hill?

thanks everyone 

 

[germs087]

Saddles, shelfs, points, breaklines - all points of interest. Mark up a map and hit the woods to confirm your suspicion.

If you are in hilly country remember to watch your thermals. Deer will travel to utilize the reversals to their benefit.

[Bionic]

Moog, thank you for that! I want to at minimum increase deer sightings.  I will apply all that you have shared with me.

Grampy- when you describe it like that it makes perfect sense, sort of a "why didnt I think of that" type of thing.  Will the morning, or afternoon thermal typically dictate which direction the deer typically travel? As in up hill, or down hill? This might seem a bit of a nit pick follow up question, but is there a certain depth of a drainage crossing deer tend draw the line on as to how deep the grade is into the drainage? 

Thank you for all thr input.

 

germs-i will most definitely be paying attention to thermals with hills from now on.  I know of a few areas that I might just purposely try this out on.  Thank you!

[germs087]

Check out the book Mapping Trophy Bucks by Brad Herndon. Lots of information and stories/results to go with the information. I have read it multiple times now and still learn a bunch every time I look back through it.

[Buckmaster7600]

I hunt funnels in the big woods. Find the thickest spots between cover and feed with some kind of natural barrier and hunt it. I have killed a bunch of bucks in the ADKS and all but 2 of them were shot in a funnel. The other 2 I was tracking.


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[Bionic]

Germs- I will look into that book, sounds good, thanks.

 

Buckmaster, thank you for chiming in, I truly appreciate it.  I just want to verify I understand what you are suggesting.  What I want to do is find some type of cover....(I think bryer patches, or tangled deadfalls, and super dense packed short pines), once that type of area I described is found, then I want to find a food source(im thinking acorns, since their are ZERO fields of any sorts here, its dense pine woods with random hard wood trees shuffled in).  Once the deer cover is found/or believed to be deer cover, and the suspected food source is found, I want to locate some type of natural barrier, i am assuming for ME whether its a blind, or climber.  I like the blind lately for spots id like to randomly try, I use a myoelectric hand to hold my bow, and I literally have to keep the bow grasped during the entire hunt, due to keeping the arm powered off to prevent beeping noises from the arm.  The climber is pretty uncomfortable to hunt from with the bow.  A blind is ok in the big woods? I should try to blend it in obviously...?

Thanks for the input! 

[Bionic]

Would you guys mind if I browsed topo maps, and marked areas on them, and post pics? This way I know I am on the right track as far as places to actually walk....

[Bionic]

Would these marked areas be on the right track, of a someplace you would feel confident would not be a wasted walk?  The two parallel long lines im thinking are a place two look in between those marked lines.  The single short mark/line I am thinking by what was described could be a potential area for bedding.

[Bionic]

[Jmp209]

Check out the book Mapping Trophy Bucks by Brad Herndon. Lots of information and stories/results to go with the information. I have read it multiple times now and still learn a bunch every time I look back through it.

Probably one of the best books I've read. He's not an author who's trying to sell you any gimmick or product but actually teaching you how to increase your odds by using the terrain to your advantage. I don't think I've found a single person who doesn't like this book after reading it.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

17 hours ago, Bionic said:

 

Culvercreek- Now these finger ridges, will they be traveling up/down the hill on these fingers? I'm assuming these are sort of like a bump in the hill ? 

 

 

think of them as a ramp to get up or down around a steeper slope. As far as the direction it will depend on what is on top and what is on the bottom. If bedding is up and food is down then that would be a different timed, preferred route  than if it was the other way around. when you get up in the morning and head to the kitchen for coffee, which way do you go? why? remember that most deer movement will take place around  dawn and dusk and they eat at night generally. Then there is the pre-rut and rut which means that everything you think you figured out is out the window...lol