Need advice for a plot(pic attached)

[Jeremy K]

I would like to do a food plot next year . Every year after the corn is cut ,we lose all the deer ,except for the mommas with babies . I have a few questions , what crop would be best for after the corn gets cut beginning of archery season ? What kind of things should i research , i have never planted a field before ,i'm as green as the the field im working with. I outlined the area that ihave to work with right below the MX track.  Should i consider different crops for this area ? My buddy has an Aliss chalmers with the attachments needed to work a field . I guess ill have more questions as the advice comes in.  

[growalot]

Get on line to Welter Seed and Honey company...look through their catalog on line but request a mail one...read...read...read...Seedlands...read all descriptions...but know you need to soil test pronto,as soon as soil can be dug..late season..any broadsides,sometimes it takes a year for  them to  adjust to them. Winter grains, or perrenials legumes ,chicory.

[Jeremy K]

Im on it ! Thanks grow.

[growalot]

 Haha  I typed brassicas...but Kindle was partially correct in its wrongness..."broadside" is the name of a seed mix of ...brassicas

[F-150]

Jeremy, is your food plot in the southern tier, a killing frost will probably come a few weeks earlier, Niagara County. It would take a lot hardier plant variety to grow here.

[goosifer]

Jeremy, I am in the same boat you are: looking to do food plots in Niagara County for the first time next year. I have access to a skid steer and can rent the brush hog attachment to clear fields. I need to work on getting access or renting equipment to turn spray and seed the soil. Maybe we can exchange information as we get up to speed on this over the next several months.

[tuckersdaddy]

Looking at the sat pic i would say you have more a cover issue then food issue. Awful lot of open ground there,and post havest make even more.

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[Jeremy K]

7 hours ago, tuckersdaddy said:

Looking at the sat pic i would say you have more a cover issue then food issue. Awful lot of open ground there,and post havest make even more.

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Not so much looking to hunt over the plot ,just trying to keep them around . Just out of site is a large cornfield,once that corn get cut ,we lose all the deer.

[Jeremy K]

9 hours ago, goosifer said:

Jeremy, I am in the same boat you are: looking to do food plots in Niagara County for the first time next year. I have access to a skid steer and can rent the brush hog attachment to clear fields. I need to work on getting access or renting equipment to turn spray and seed the soil. Maybe we can exchange information as we get up to speed on this over the next several months.

That would be great . My buddy let's me do whatever I want in his woods,he's completely on board with a food plot,he just told me to research it .  

[Jeremy K]

10 hours ago, F-150 said:

Jeremy, is your food plot in the southern tier, a killing frost will probably come a few weeks earlier, Niagara County. It would take a lot hardier plant variety to grow here.

Ya ,Southern tier . There was a couple crops I read about that breakdown after the frost and become sweet tasting .

[chas0218]

Why not just plant half to soybean and half to corn then reverse next year. You looking for perennial or annual?What kind of soil (clay, sand,ect)? Maybe break it into 3 small plots 1 end have soybean other end have corn and flip them every year so the soil doesn't get abused too bad then put perennial brassica in the center. Brassica is good for after the first frost if the deer don't hammer them too hard in the spring. Maybe even winter rye or wheat then plant to corn early summer. If you loose deer after the corn is gone then I would be tempted to make my own corn plot. If you do soybean and corn do not cut the corn or soybean until the spring, the deer will browse lower vegetation first normally then higher stuff once the snow starts to cover it up.

[growalot]

Saying soybeans is easier than planting them...They do HAVE to have a high PH to grow as they should...no getting around that. Getting the deer use to coming in to a less expensive crop that will improve the soil when first starting is the better solution...then there is  That corn field wont' always be corn...corn is like a killer crop...It is great for killing generations of weed seed but also kills the soil. So unless they are dumping copious  amounts of  manure on it, 5-6 years ,they will have to plant a cover/legume crop. So you want to know when that will happen and plan to have something even tastier on your place.....

Ex..they plant clover/ WW in the fall or a Clover Alfalfa in the spring...you go soybeans or cow peas spring,brassica,WR fall

Right now you want to invest that $$ sweetening the soil. Spring trictical and peas... That type of crop you do not need to plant deep...deeper you loosen the soil...the more weed seeds surface and grow....unless you plan on doing a full board soil turn in plowing..you don't want to go deep..use plants to loosen the soil...hog radish in the fall.

Quote

Overview of non-legume cover crops

Annual ryegrass, also called Italian ryegrass, is a turf grass with a dense, shallow root system. Its extensive root system tolerates compacted soil and makes it effective at mopping up available N remaining in the soil after a vegetable crop. It competes well with late summer annual weeds as well as winter annuals that start in the fall, such as chickweed. Ryegrass will tolerate a wide range of soils but performs best on moderately- to well-drained soils with high fertility. It is well suited to undersowing after last cultivation of a cash crop in order to establish a winter cover prior to harvest. Annual ryegrass is less expensive than perennial ryegrass, and is more likely to winterkill; however, it may overwinter in milder areas. Perennial ryegrass may winterkill in harsher zones. Sow from mid-summer to early fall at 5 to 10 lb/A if drilled, 15 to 30 lb/A if broadcast.

Buckwheat is a fast-growing summer annual used to protect the soil, add organic matter and suppress weeds for a month or two between spring and fall cash crops. It grows fairly well on slightly acid and low phosphorus soils. It decomposes rapidly, so is easy to incorporate. Mow or incorporate at flowering, prior to seed set so it does not become a weed in subsequent crops. Sow from early to mid-summer at 50 to 70 lb/A if drilled, 60 to 100 lb/A if broadcast.

Cereal rye is commonly sown after cash crops are harvested in the fall. It is very hardy, an efficient N scavenger, adapted to a wide range of conditions, and seed is inexpensive. The latest-sown cover crop, it produces a lot of biomass if allowed to grow into late spring. This adds organic matter to the soil but may be difficult to incorporate prior to crop planting. In late spring rye must be carefully managed to prevent excessive growth, and allowed time to break down so it will not interfere with establishment of a subsequent cash crop.  Sow at 60 to 120 lb/A if drilled, 90 to 160 lb/A if broadcast, from late summer to mid-October in most areas. Incorporate in spring before it gets too rank for equipment to handle. Some growers leave narrow strips of rye untilled as windbreaks between blocks of crops in the spring.

Forage radish is a fall-seeded Brassica that is not winter hardy. This crop forms thick, white taproots that can grow 8 to 14 inches. Radishes are excellent at breaking up shallow layers of compacted soils; the end of the taproot can penetrate deeper layers of compaction. The roots die over the winter and leave channels so that the soil dries and warms up faster in the spring. Forage radishes also suppress fall weeds. Plant into a smooth seedbed. Sow 4 to 10 weeks before fall frost at 10 lb/A if drilled in good soil conditions or 13 lb/A if broadcast or drilled into sub-optimal condition. Using higher rates leads to overcrowding and weaker growth. Drilling gives a much better stand; broadcasting should be reserved for when the soil is too wet to drill. After seeding, roll the ground to improve seed-to-soil contact but do not break up soil aggregates. Plant at 1/4" to 1/2" deep. Forage radish can be planted with 40 lb/A of wheat for spring cover and weed suppression.

Japanese millet is an annual grass that grows about 4' tall and can provide good weed suppression. It is about the stature of buckwheat but has a longer lifespan so it can keep the ground covered from early summer through fall without mowing if sown heavily. Sow at 20 to 25 lb/A if drilled, 30 to 40 lb/A if broadcast. It performs poorly on sandy soils without supplemental fertilization.

Mustard can be used as a fall-planted cover crop that winter-kills. It adds organic matter, breaks up a hardpan, and suppresses weeds in the following crop. Soil-borne diseases may be suppressed by glucosinolates in mustard and other Brassica family crops, but results may vary from year to year and in different locations. Further, different species and varieties contain different amounts of bioactive chemicals. Prepare a firm, weed-free seedbed with adequate levels of available N to assure a good stand. Sow mid-July through August at 5 to 12 lb/A if drilled and 10 to 15 lb/A if broadcast. Roll the ground to improve seed-to-soil contact but do not break up soil aggregates. In the spring, yellow mustard can also be frost-seeded or sown as soon as the ground can be worked. Do not let mustards go to seed. Mustards attract flea beetles and diamond-back moths, but the risk is lowest in the fall. They can also host Brassica crop diseases such as clubroot.

Oats are often used as a winter cover crop to protect the soil without requiring intensive management in the spring, because they are frost-killed. Shallow incorporation of residues may still be necessary before crop planting. Enough growth is needed before first frost to adequately protect the soil, so plant from mid-August to mid-Sept in most areas. Sow 80 to 110 lb/A if drilled, 110 to 140 lb/A if broadcast. Oat residues left on the soil surface may chemically suppress weed growth, and also act as a physical barrier. Oats are also a good cover crop to plant any time during the spring or fall to get a quick cover.

Sudangrass and sorghum-Sudangrass are fast-growing, warm season crops that require good fertility and moisture to perform well (sorghum-Sudangrass is often referred to generically as Sudex, although that is a trademarked name). Under such conditions, their tall, rank growth provides excellent weed suppression. The heavy growth can be difficult to cut and incorporate if left unmanaged. Sudangrass growth is easier to manage because the stems are narrower, and it can be sown a little earlier than sorghum-Sudangrass. These crops provide abundant root biomass, which is useful for increasing soil organic matter. Mowing when 2' to 3' tall encourages root growth. Mowing several times during the season makes it easier to turn in residues later, and it promotes tillering and root growth. These crops may suppress root knot nematodes. Sow once soil has warmed to 60o F, in early summer at 35 lb/A if drilled, 40 to 50 lb/A if broadcast. Provide adequate moisture and apply N fertilizer if grown on low fertility soils.

Teff is a warm-season grass useful for suppressing weeds if sown at a high plant population. It has a fine plant structure that doesn't leave soil clumpy for the next crop. Although buckwheat and Sudangrass are more common choices for early-summer sowing, Teff tolerates dry conditions better. It also requires less maintenance: buckwheat must be controlled when it matures and Sudangrass should be mowed several times. Teff needs minimal mowing and generally does not produce seed, so volunteers are not an issue. Sow in June-July into a very firm seedbed so that the tiny seeds stay near the surface.  The crop needs 40 to 60 lb/A N, so follow a high-N vegetable or manure application. Sow 5 to 8 lb/A raw seed or 8 to 10 lb/A coated seed, or if soil moisture is uneven. Use a Brillion seeder or broadcast followed by roller to press seed into soil. Plant 1/8" to 1/4" deep. Needs frequent light rain or irrigation for rapid uniform emergence.

Overview of legume cover crops

Legume cover crops are often used when "free" nitrogen is desired for a subsequent cash crop with high N demand. Legumes generally require good drainage and adequate P fertility (other than N). Most grow slowly at first so they do not compete well with weeds until established. Drill seed for best stands. Treat legume seed with the proper inoculant to ensure that root nodules are formed. Legume cover crops can be sown with a nurse crop such as oats to provide early ground cover and weed suppression during establishment. When legume cover crops with flower buds are mowed, tarnished plant bugs may be driven into adjacent vegetable crops.

Alfalfa requires deep, well-drained soil with a pH near neutral for good growth. It is a long-lived perennial that is probably not worth the expense of establishment in a short-term rotation; it makes more sense if also used for production of forage for 2 or 3 years. Alfalfa fixes large amounts of N that can meet most or all of the needs of a subsequent vegetable crop if allowed to regrow after cutting before it is turned in. Seed in early spring at 6 to 10 lb/A if combined with a grass nurse crop, otherwise seed at 10 to 15 lb/A; drill if possible.

Hairy vetch is a winter-hardy, annual legume that is an effective N-fixer. It is useful in vegetable crop rotations as a tool for growing N without taking land out of cash crop production. Once established, it is good at weed suppression and soil conditioning. Generally this cover crop is seeded in late summer from mid-August to mid-September in most of New England. To gain the most N benefit, it should be allowed to grow until early flowering, about mid-May, before being incorporated the following spring. Sow vetch at 15 to 20 lb/A if drilled, 25 to 40 lb/A broadcast. Use vetch/pea type inoculant (not crown vetch type.) Since it is slow to establish, sow vetch with a nurse crop such as rye at 30 to 40 lb/A or oats at 40 to 50 lb/A. The grass takes up unused soil N and ensures a good winter ground cover for erosion control. Oats will not overwinter, leaving the vetch alone the following spring, which is easier to turn under and prepare for direct seeding; with rye there is more biomass produced and more soil residue after incorporation which is better suited to transplanting. Hairy vetch can also be seeded in early spring or summer and allowed to grow until the following spring.

Red clover is a short-lived perennial that is somewhat tolerant of acidic or poorly drained soils. It is useful for adding N and organic matter to soils on land that is taken out of production for a season or two. Mammoth red clover produces more biomass for plow-down than medium red clover, but does not regrow as well after mowing. Mammoth red clover will often establish better than medium in dry or acid soils. Seed in early spring or late summer or undersow in early summer into corn, winter squash before it vines, and other crops if soil moisture is plentiful. Sow at 8 to 10 lb/A if drilled, 10 to 12 lb/A if broadcast. Can be mixed with Sudangrass, sown at half the recommended rate, seeded in early summer.

Sweet Clover is a deep-rooted biennial (except for some annual types) that is adapted to a wide range of soils. It is a good soil-improving crop with a strong taproot that penetrates into subsoil, reducing compaction. Yellow sweet clover is earlier maturing and somewhat less productive than white sweet clover. Sow in early spring or summer at 6 to 10 lb/A if drilled, 10 to 20 lb/A if broadcast. Heavy growth is produced in the spring after overwintering. Incorporate in late spring or mid-summer at full flowering.

Soybean or cowpea. These warm-season legumes have potential as cover crops sown in early summer to provide some weed suppression and add N to the soil. They are frost and drought sensitive. Though typically grown for their seeds these crops will primarily produce foliage if long-season varieties are used in the Northeast. Forage cultivars may produce more biomass than horticultural varieties. Drill at 30 to 40 lb/A if drilling, 60 to 100 lb/A if broadcasting; use high rates in sub-optimal conditions, or to improve weed suppression. Avoid damaging seed when handling. Plant 1 to 2 inches deep, firm up the soil and provide adequate moisture to get good germination. Good soil seed contact and well-drained soils are needed to establish strong stands. Use cowpea/peanut, or soybean type inoculant. Can be grown in mixture with Japanese millet or Sudangrass; the latter is taller and may suppress legume growth via shading so used reduced rates.

White clover is a low-growing perennial, tolerant of shade and slightly acid soil. Ladino types are taller than the Dutch or wild types. White clover is a poor competitor with weeds unless mowed. It is suited for use in walkways or alleys. Once established, it provides long-term cover, either alone or with a low-growing turfgrass. It can be used in high traffic areas to minimize soil compaction and improve soil health. White clover tolerates wet conditions. Sow in early spring, frost-seed in March, or seed in early fall, along with a turfgrass, at 3 to 9 lb/A if drilled, 5 to 14 lb/A if broadcast.

Cover crop mixtures. Cover crop mixtures are used to hedge against failure of one component and to get some of the benefits of both. A grass will usually establish quickly, holding soil in place and "nursing' the legume along. By taking up available soil N, the grass promotes N-fixation by the legume. Fertilization with N or the absence of mowing favors growth of grass over legume.

Interseeding, or under-sowing a cover crop into a standing cash crop is a way get a jump on the fall/winter cover crop season and can help protect soil between rows from erosion and compaction. When interseeding covers, sowing should be delayed enough to minimize competition with the vegetable crop, but early enough so the cover crop can establish well and then withstand the harvest traffic. Typically, a good time to sow is at last cultivation, before the crop canopy closes. Less competitive crops such as carrots, onions and the like are poorly suited to intercropping while vigorous vegetables, like winter squash and sweet corn, can often tolerate early-summer interseeding with a cover crop such as ryegrass and/or red clover. Late summer is a better time for interseeding crops like peppers, staked tomatoes, fall crucifers and the like. Traditional winter covers like rye, oats and/or hairy vetch can be used at that time. A good seedbed and timely rainfall or irrigation helps with establishment. Interseeding is not advisable if no irrigation is available or if there are disease problems in the crop that call for the field to be tilled after harvest.

 

http://plantcovercrops.com/short-cover-crops-put-down-deep-roots/

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by growalot

[Jeremy K]

9 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Why not just plant half to soybean and half to corn then reverse next year. You looking for perennial or annual?What kind of soil (clay, sand,ect)? Maybe break it into 3 small plots 1 end have soybean other end have corn and flip them every year so the soil doesn't get abused too bad then put perennial brassica in the center. Brassica is good for after the first frost if the deer don't hammer them too hard in the spring. Maybe even winter rye or wheat then plant to corn early summer. If you loose deer after the corn is gone then I would be tempted to make my own corn plot. If you do soybean and corn do not cut the corn or soybean until the spring, the deer will browse lower vegetation first normally then higher stuff once the snow starts to cover it up.

I may have to post a picture if i can't explain it properly . We have 6 trail cameras every year and we have their travel route , in order for the deer to get to where ever they go on the neighbors property ,they leave the thick pines (or hang out in the corn),over the tracks and through the corn field . With out the corn field ,they either need to take the road or go through the over grown apple orchard ( some smaller bucks can be seen there sometimes) My buddy does a lot of firewood in the orchard so its usually busy in there. I honestly don't know if its the great coverage of the field they like or the food source , the only thing i have control of is the food source . We're seeing 4/5 year old bucks right up until the corn is gone which usually is about the start of archery.

[Jeremy K]

It sucks seeing these guys and then they vanish,no pics at all.

[tuckersdaddy]

Not so much looking to hunt over the plot ,just trying to keep them around . Just out of site is a large cornfield,once that corn get cut ,we lose all the deer.

The deer are not so much eating the corn....which they do... but they are hiding in the tall stalks... Get rid of that cover they go find it else where. Food is easy, cover is not.


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[Jeremy K]

I was reluctantly thinking that the past few seasons . They do come back and visit the pines during the season , we get some really large diameter trees rubbed throughout the season . I think i found a tree that will allow me to get on the edge of the pines this year. 

[growalot]

Is that spring to fall?

Problem could be you have the bachelor pad...they are dispersing to go find the does in the fall.. I get that problem when I plant soybean...here all summer then poof gone.

[wolc123]

Corn is the only plot that you can bank on for holding deer on your land during daylight hours.   The reason is simple - it provides cover, in addition to carbs, exactly when the deer need both the most.   Brassicas might work on a cold year, but usually only for the last 5-10 minutes of daylight, during late ML season.  The neighbors and I took 6 deer in and around 4 acres of corn that I put in this spring. That action, which started just before the end of archery season, finally wrapped up yesterday afternoon when a neighbor kid pulled a little 8-pointer out of the corn, that he killed with his ML.  

Cover is a lot more important than food, and if you can't swing the corn (which provides both), it might be best to just let some areas grow up into heavy cover of whatever saplings, goldenrod, etc, just springs up naturally.     

Edited December 22, 2016 by wolc123

[chas0218]

20 hours ago, growalot said:

Saying soybeans is easier than planting them...They do HAVE to have a high PH to grow as they should...no getting around that. Getting the deer use to coming in to a less expensive crop that will improve the soil when first starting is the better solution...then there is  That corn field wont' always be corn...corn is like a killer crop...It is great for killing generations of weed seed but also kills the soil. So unless they are dumping copious  amounts of  manure on it, 5-6 years ,they will have to plant a cover/legume crop. So you want to know when that will happen and plan to hve sometime even tastier on your place.....

Ex..they plant clover/ WW in the fall or a Clover Alfalfa in the spring...you go soybeans or cow peas spring,brassica,WR fall

Right now you want to invest that $$ sweetening the soil. Spring trictical and peas... That type of crop you do not need to plant deep...deeper you loosen the soil...the more weed seeds surface and grow....unless you plan on doing a full board soil turn in plowing..you don't want to go deep..use plants to loosen the soil...hog radish in the fall.

 

http://plantcovercrops.com/short-cover-crops-put-down-deep-roots/

 

That's why you would rotate crops the soybean puts Nitrogen back into the soil needed for the corn. You can usually get away with 2 years of corn on the same plot then rotate. I would personally rotate every year. If you want a good cover crop buckwheat is a great alternative and turkey love it. Rye grass is a great cover crop but if not tilled at the correct time of the spring it can choke out any seeds planted. 

On our garden we have always had good luck with buckwheat and rye if you catch it early in the spring otherwise it will choke out the plot vegetation.

Grow, soybean is junk to deer until it completely dries. They love it when green but as soon as they start to turn it gets very bitter and deer move onto the corn about the same time deer season starts.

 

Once again I would really recommend soybean/buckwheat rotation with corn. You have some studs there and if you can keep the doe around the bucks should stay. With that being said the doe will stick around if there is enough forage for them. We have herds of doe 8 in one herd, another 4 in the other and 5 in the other. This is on a 200 acre farm with 80 acres of ag fields. 

[LET EM GROW]

Grow is right. You must build soil first. Id start with soil test. and go from there. A man i worked with for a few years now by the name of John Obrion from Grandpa Rays outdoors. He designs all his seed blends for soil building purposes, as well as favoring the whitetails taste buds. Very knowledgeable and has the credits to prove. He will also answer any of your questions.

But build your soil first and rotate from legumes(fix nitrogen) to an annual like brassicas(use nitrogen) or vice versa depending on test.

You can also plant soft and hard mast trees, shrubs and bushes. That is what i started doing last year and will continue this year, as well as pines/hemlocks for cover to hold deer.. 

[LET EM GROW]

My first soybean plot was planted after 3 straight years of Brassica blends. The soybeans grew to nearly 4ft tall and produced tons. Besides some fertilizer here and there and some lime every 3 or 4 years. i have yet to soil test there, for nearly 8 years now. Just good soil that holds moisture. Even though 200 yards away the soil is horrible.. typical steuben county lol 

[Jeremy K]

My dad is going back down in a couple weeks to grab the cameras , I'll set him to do get a soil sample while he's there.

[Jeremy K]

I'll get to use my new garmin to calculate the area of said food plot too.

[goosifer]

3 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

I'll get to use my new garmin to calculate the area of said food plot too.

which one did you get? I have an older one in B&W non-touchscreen.

[Jeremy K]

1 hour ago, goosifer said:

which one did you get? I have an older one in B&W non-touchscreen.

I found a Montana 650T on archerytalk , he wanted 275 ,i tossed him an offer of 200 and he took it. I'm still having trouble down loading the satellite view map.