Muck Farm

[Jason118]

Week before gun opened my family purchased another property that used to be a 58 acre  muck farm.  

         The fields have turned to cattails. The kind that grows a top looking like a corn stalks probably a average of over 8ft. I believe the fields are tiled and the ditches along them used to be pumped of water when to high into a bigger ditch out back. I was able to take the track 4 wheeler and blaze some trails threw it with the tow behind brush hog. It's kinda hard to tell what shape they will be in next year givin this was a very dry year ~ I'm guessing mucky.

       Now I know there's some farmers on here and some old enough to remember when muck farming was more fashionable. Two questions.

      The cattails that are standing now, will they be replaced by totally new growth? I would like to get some parts of fields down to archery level not necessarily to the ground but not 9ft high either. Would height be manageable? Or just stay on top of it and keep it down to the ground?

       What's plantable? I mean it's wet muck.  The 4 wheeler with tracks pulling the tow behind makes that part manageable which come summer might not even be.  If I open up part of a field and frost seed clover I'm thinking it will be 2 wet for clover.

    If I can get a for wheel driver tractor in there with  Roto tiller what exactly are we going to plant? All I can picture is the muck farm off of 104 in Oswego that grows onions.

       BTW it is full of deer. I'm looking at food plots to give the deer a more sense of direction. Yes there are some well worn pathways but for the most part there is no ryme or reason to there travels besides direction. 

[growalot]

First CONGRATS..Now you sound lucky to have a good drainage ,tile?system in as well?. SOIL TEST   first on list. Then ask your self if it's the root system from coattails/ marsh grass holding you up while mowing. Will it be too thick for a frost seeding to take?. I'd avoid a plow ,but attempt a discing...several passes will probably be needed...here is what I've gotten to grow..spotty corn,and it tends to be short there,hog radish and turnips do pretty well..I'm talk standing water in fall and spring. No working it until June. The cow peas and winter peas did well...This year I am putting in a blend of clovers..pumpkins did great as well as melons and winter squash...I over seeded with turnips...It got so wet I couldn't walk on it....but the deer didn't seem to mind..in fact today most new tracks are in there..digging turnips.....4wheel is a must.

Google:

 What food plot plants grow in muck soils

Best clovers for wet soils

What ag. Crops handle standing water

Edited January 7, 2017 by growalot

[E J]

Your looking at not so good conditions for food plots unless your planning on cleaning out your ditches and running the pumps that kept the tile lines running. The reason those are there are to keep the fields dry while the crops were on. Once the crops where off they were probably shut off and the field was wet again. There is the possibility there is an area that is a little higher and stays a little drier, but you probably wouldn't know where that is unless you had been growing crops there. Good luck!

[chas0218]

Cattails are the hardest thing to get rid of. The only way is to plow them under before the tops seed out (turns fluffy) and do it for the next 5 years then they will be gone. Mowing them will not kill them. Montezuma is going through the same thing in their wetlands right now. They have choked out the majority of the wetlands. You can see the work being done when driving down the thru-way. Only other option is copper sulfate. You will need to buy it in P.A. because N.Y. refuses to sell stuff that works.

[sodfather]

Chas0218 is correct I'm no farmer but have been dealing with cattail sin Clarence for years mowing them down. I wanted to spray pesticides on it but DEC said no no.

[chas0218]

If you want it to drain is there anyway you can dig a pond on the lowest end of the land and have it all drain there? I know it's muck so it can't get much lower but sometimes there is a lower spot that is more wet than the rest.

[Five Seasons]

1. what is a muck farm?

2. did you guys buy this land for hunting?

[chas0218]

7 minutes ago, Belo said:

1. what is a muck farm?

2. did you guys buy this land for hunting?

I can only answer the first question.

It is low land that is usually very wet and mud like. The land is used to grow potatoes, mushroom, and other plants that like wet marshy soil. It's basically marsh land minus the standing water, some muck fields can be very deep similar to quick sand others just a foot.

[Five Seasons]

that doesn't sound very fun

[growalot]

 Belo

muck land is land in flood plains that have had one type of drainage system installed or another to allow farming ...the soils are usually nutrient rich black soil. My Grandparents lived in Groveland station in the Genessee valley...The Groveland flats would flood yearly. As I grew bigger farmers like Kennedy farms brought in huge excavators and began digging drainage ditches bordereing and crossing through the flats...making those lands great farm lands...Hornell had an area as well with muck ,rich blk soils...That became great farm lands....Though the conversion wiped out the best migratory Bird hunting...the sky's were  blk with water fowl...but also the absolute worst mosquitos when I was a kid.

 

[E J]

2 hours ago, Belo said:

1. what is a muck farm?

 

This is muck. Flood took out the bare area's.

[E J]

Combine being pulled out of muck

[Jason118]

15 hours ago, Belo said:

1. what is a muck farm?

2. did you guys buy this land for hunting?

Yes we did. There's a old house and the electric  ran smack dad in the middle of it that used to power the pumps so if one of us wants to build the drive and power are already there. 

     We own wetlands that share another 200acres at another spot so this type of hunting is not new to us, chest waiters are tnorm for some spots not that I have to endure it  but much prefer it sometimes. The new place is actually dryer given the willows that run the trenches and dry spots here and there. 

     Thanks for all the info ~ everyone. I'm glad to see some have made it work and a little disappointed how much work cattails are going to be but being huntable now every thing will be a improvement not a necessity.

       

[Jason118]

15 hours ago, chas0218 said:

If you want it to drain is there anyway you can dig a pond on the lowest end of the land and have it all drain there? I know it's muck so it can't get much lower but sometimes there is a lower spot that is more wet than the rest.

That most likely will be in the future. It is pretty flat but with the tile system maybe we can get it to flow 

[Jason118]

16 hours ago, E J said:

Your looking at not so good conditions for food plots unless your planning on cleaning out your ditches and running the pumps that kept the tile lines running. The reason those are there are to keep the fields dry while the crops were on. Once the crops where off they were probably shut off and the field was wet again. There is the possibility there is an area that is a little higher and stays a little drier, but you probably wouldn't know where that is unless you had been growing crops there. Good luck!

All I can think of ~ that must have been one hell of a electric bill!

[landtracdeerhunter]

You have purchased some of the best, richest land in New York state; if you can drain it. I could only wish for land like this. First a word of caution, Keep Fire Away. Once muck is on fire, it can burn for a long time. I have seen muck land burn underground for months , loosing several feet of soil. 

Nice thing about humus soils are their dry very quickly, in drying weather of coarse.I have seen muck with a foot of water over it in the morning, then pumped out and tractors working on it in the afternoon with the dust flying.

Roots crops do the best on muck. I seen corn planted on it; big wind comes up and the corn tipping out by the roots. Lower growing crops are the best bet. 

What a score! Good luck with it.

[chas0218]

54 minutes ago, landtracdeerhunter said:

You have purchased some of the best, richest land in New York state; if you can drain it. I could only wish for land like this. First a word of caution, Keep Fire Away. Once muck is on fire, it can burn for a long time. I have seen muck land burn underground for months , loosing several feet of soil. 

Nice thing about humus soils are their dry very quickly, in drying weather of coarse.I have seen muck with a foot of water over it in the morning, then pumped out and tractors working on it in the afternoon with the dust flying.

Roots crops do the best on muck. I seen corn planted on it; big wind comes up and the corn tipping out by the roots. Lower growing crops are the best bet. 

What a score! Good luck with it.

I was thinking brassicas probably be best in his situation. Clover likes moisture but not that much, corn and soybean don't like wet feet. Not that they won't grow just won't grow to maturity fast and usually of not great quality.

Edited January 10, 2017 by chas0218

[moog5050]

My own 40 acres is probably 60 percent muck land.  I understand much of it was farmed at one time but now its cattails with some higher ground holding timber mixed in.   It results in a ton of transition lines throughout the parcel making a 40 acre parcel hunt much bigger as the deer walk all of the transition lines.  Plus, the higher spots in the muck (islands) are great bedding for deer and tend to be a safe spot for them.  You might consider leaving some of it as is for bedding (assuming you have islands - easy to spot as that is where the trees grow in the midst of the cattails and you will find clear deer trails leading to them).  We have a lot of islands on my property.  Pretty easy to cut useable entrance trails through the cattails by using a full 4x8 piece of plywood and laying it on the cattails, walk and flip again.  Grows in every season but wait until august to cut the trails and they will remain until the following spring.  Plus the laid down cattails give you something to walk on so as not to sink in the muck.  My land is surrounded by ag fields and a preserve and has had some really good resident bucks over the years.  Just a thought.

[Buckmaster7600]

Getting rid of cat tails is tough! Your best chance is to plow it under while there is still a little frost in the ground. Very tough to do unless you have big equipment or aren't in a hurry. A few years ago I was able to do just this with a 70hp tractor and a 2 bottom plow. Luckily it was only 5 or 6 acres. After you get it plowed spray it a few times and you should be good to plant.

With any wet land plots dead furrows are your friends. I grew up on a crop farm that has a lot of wet spots. My great grand father would run a dead furrow every 10 or 15ft for the whole length of the field and around the edges. Now that we don't do crops I do the same thing for my food plots. Makes it a pain to mow or get around on the wheelers or tractors but it helps drainage especially when we get a flood late spring which seems to be the new norm.
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[chas0218]

If you want to plant some trees to help with the water issue Cyprus are supposed to use a lot of water and used/grow in areas that are wet.

[growalot]

Some quick reading to help you out:

 

https://hancockseed.com/ball-clover-seed-5-lb-bag-928.html

http://www.buckmasters.com/Hunting/Land-Management/Articles/ID/496/The-Truth-About-Durana-White-Clover

https://www.plants.usda.gov/factsheet/pdf/fs_trre3.pdf

http://www.american-hunter.com/qdm/american_jointvech.htm

http://extension.psu.edu/plants/crops/forages/species/birdsfoot-trefoil

Quote

Mowing and Cutting cattails

Timing is everything if you decide to mow or cut your cattails. Cutting them in May stimulates growth, so wait until late summer if you are only going to cut once. If you cut the cattails below the water line two or three times in a season, very few cattails will grow back the following year. Your cutting will have deprived the roots of their important food source and reduced the amount for storage. Winter cutting will have very little effect on the food in the roots of the plant.

You should cut or mow your cattails with a gas-powered weed trimmer, or another safe, sharp cutting tool. Do not use electrical tools near ponds. Cut the cattails as close to, or under, the water line, removing as much of the leaf blade as possible. Rake or pile the leaves away from the pond or add them to your compost pile. Cattail leaves make excellent, durable canes for chairs, mats, and other home crafts.