SB 4739 - Establishes the yearling buck protection program

[Culvercreek hunt club]

15 hours ago, ....rob said:

First, is hasn't passed yet. Getting your under garnets of choice in a bunch won't do any good. With that said, it's NY, so it probably will pass. Do I agree with it, NO!

 

Second, look at this site! Most of the people on here won't shoot anything less then a 6 or 8. So why the uproar? Look at the posts, and how many people have stated "I let a real nice 6 pass today, waiting for the big boy I have on cam.". This plays right into hunters telling other others to let the little guys have a pass and only take mature bucks. So what's the big deal? Why complain about a possible law that will allow the smaller bucks to thrive?

As grampy hit on, it should be a choice.

But, people get ticked off even when things go their way. Go figure. 

The time to "get your panties in a bunch" over a proposed laws is while it IS STILL PROPOSED.. Not once it is passed. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[growalot]

Quote

Most times the older you get in hunting you opt out for bigger deer and not little deer or killing higher numbers of deer. That all came in the younger years.  Todays world screams for bigger higher scoring deer and most are willing to do..and pay what it takes to get to that point.

I don't know how old you are...young enough to traverse the wall of Letchworth, I'll assume not too old. Me ,this year I start pushing my way to 60...older but not old. I do know many older gentleman and some gals that are older hunters...some with failing health...They go through what can be an extreme effort to hit the woods and I can tell you they could give a damn about deer size...They just want to say they shot a deer that year and they enjoyed eating it. If you throw the old doe thing at me, I just may puke...I should have proven that it's not always easy to get a doe to show in day light...and I hunt more than most. So some of these older people may have that one single opportunity and it could be a 4 or 6 pt...They deserve that opportunity. See you(general term) younger  chest beat bucks that need bragging rights...well most of you have a good many years left to make that choice...If that is what you want, go for it...you obviously don't need a law to force you to wait. Oh I forgot in" today's world", your not suppose to wait, you should be able to have a big buck behind every other tree. That's what will make them so much more special to shoot....Like picking the biggest apple in the bin..So many big apples in that bin, all very tasty and bright...You just needed to pick and choose the very biggest... Yes my sarcasm is back

Edited February 28, 2017 by growalot

[Five Seasons]

20 hours ago, grampy said:

We all are individuals, and we all hunt for different reasons and have different goals. So if someone wants to let five yearling bucks pass, to perhaps shoot a mature eight or ten point buck, last day of the season. That should be their choice. If someone else, wants to go out on opening morning and shoot the first legal buck that comes along. That should be their choice. I buy the tag. I don't need someone to tell me what to shoot.

while I don't disagree, what is often overlooked for a state like NY where most hunters hunt small parcels is the fact that you may never see a 3 year old, if your neighbor shoots every yearling buck that walks by.

I tend to side more with non-AR rules, but after spending some time down south where hunters had thousands of acres to themselves, and the state would allow the hunter to manage his own property. It made sense. In NY it's hard to manage your own property  for your wants and needs if you're anything under 100 or really 300 acres. I believe we all know some hunters who have given up because of this, or worse yet the youth who never started.

[Five Seasons]

16 hours ago, ....rob said:

 

Second, look at this site! Most of the people on here won't shoot anything less then a 6 or 8. So why the uproar?

apparently you haven't seen the crossbow harvest section

[dbHunterNY]

i'm glad they have youth hunters exempt.  they should also exempt older hunters too.  many don't get around like they used to that'd better their odds at taking something over 1.5 yrs old.  honestly it'd increase opportunity for buck harvest though.  more bucks will be grown to a point worthy of pulling the trigger by most hunters.  a vast majority of hunters would rather not shoot smaller sized bucks within the yearling age class.  some do so anyway because they feel if they don't shoot it someone else will and the opportunity to shoot something bigger in their mind might not be there otherwise.  something is better than nothing, so they settle.

[growalot]

Quote

Why is 8M not on the list or did i overlook it?

I'm glad you mentioned that...8X wasn't listed as well. I noticed, for 8m is right next door. I hunted there during 8N's no buck phase. 8X is where our camp is...Now those two areas are harder to get doe tags in...but this will make them a hot spot for guys that just want to choose their own buck...lower doe and what, was that the sound of many more truck/car doors closing in their areas than before?...I'm think yes...at a time when they are trying to recover from the last deer management brain fart,where they lost a good portion of their doe population...Now if guys go there to buck hunt what ever they choose...think they'll go for a doe tag as well? Do you think people that have ,most likely, never stepped foot in any of the areas they are writing laws on, actually have a clue? I have to tell you I don't.

[phade]

If you have one spot, and your neighbor is killing every yearling buck (legally), that's really on you. Not him.

We do not hunt a parcel that is larger than 70 acres, and no single parcel has more than 25 acres of timber/cover. Not every place we hunt has what we're looking for each year.

Putting all of your eggs in one basket isn't your neighbor's fault.

[phade]

10 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

i'm glad they have youth hunters exempt.  they should also exempt older hunters too.  many don't get around like they used to that'd better their odds at taking something over 1.5 yrs old.  honestly it'd increase opportunity for buck harvest though.  more bucks will be grown to a point worthy of pulling the trigger by most hunters.  a vast majority of hunters would rather not shoot smaller sized bucks within the yearling age class.  some do so anyway because they feel if they don't shoot it someone else will and the opportunity to shoot something bigger in their mind might not be there otherwise.  something is better than nothing, so they settle.

At the very least, they should exempt first time hunters. We seem to stick our head in the sand that new hunters = young hunters.

But the whole thing isn't a smart move either.

[growalot]

I agree with first time hunters...though the whole thing reeks. I do not agree telling youth that it is OK to shoot anything you want for up to 5 years(if they bow hunt). Then they should magically flip a switch and think it's a bad thing....Kids brains don't work like that. So you are setting things up for,possible illegal activity... because it's much more difficult to wait after you've been allowed not to for that long...It would also only take a year, maybe 2 for busy ,active young people with ever tightening schedules to say..." Well this sucks!" and  stop hunting, when they have had to sit there passing deer.

Edited February 28, 2017 by growalot

[dbHunterNY]

9 minutes ago, phade said:

At the very least, they should exempt first time hunters. We seem to stick our head in the sand that new hunters = young hunters.

But the whole thing isn't a smart move either.

i don't think it's a head in the sand thing, but more based on implementation and enforcement.  I've been meaning to ask the right people if an Econ officer can readily have someone access the harvest database to check based past tags filled or past years holding a license.  then you could define what a new hunter is to make everyone feel good and apply an exemption.  nothing is a smart move because everything gets resistance.  i can only see it as a good thing as it's promoting new hunters to join the ranks and giving them a better shot at success.  there's only so many deer out there for harvest and right now a new hunter has to compete with an avid hunter over the same deer.  this would level the playing field a little.  anyone with the screw them mentality isn't really concerned with ensuring hunting's here for the next generation.  they can't be pleased anyway unless it pleases them.

[growalot]

I do not believe anyone said nor gave the impression of screw them...

[dbHunterNY]

16 minutes ago, growalot said:

I agree with first time hunters...though the whole thing reeks. I do not agree telling youth that it is OK to shoot anything you wait for up to 5 years(if they bow hunt). Then they should magically flip a switch and think it's a bad thing....Kids brains don't work like that. So you are setting things up for,possible illegal activity... because it's much more difficult to wait after you've been allowed not to for that long...It would also only take a year, maybe 2 for busy ,active young people with ever tightening schedules to say..." Well this sucks!" and  stop hunting, when they have had to sit there passing deer.

like Phade said education works.  it's keeping them in the game and engaged, to give you time to teach them.  kids need to be engaged and have a little success to continue to learn.

[Five Seasons]

27 minutes ago, phade said:

If you have one spot, and your neighbor is killing every yearling buck (legally), that's really on you. Not him.

We do not hunt a parcel that is larger than 70 acres, and no single parcel has more than 25 acres of timber/cover. Not every place we hunt has what we're looking for each year.

Putting all of your eggs in one basket isn't your neighbor's fault.

I'm simply playing devils advocate. What other reason would the state have to enact a bill? The answer is to benefit a group of people through control.

For someone who is in the minority such as yourself who may have many parcels or good neighbors the law doesn't matter. For the majority of the state it "could" improve mature buck odds.

Personally I have 2 spots. 1 is ~100 acres with extreme pressure on all sides. the other is hundreds of acres with little pressure but a long drive and very difficult hunting.

So yeah, I'm not asking for sympathy, it's on me. And that's why I started with saying I'm mostly anti-AR. But I also "get it".

[dbHunterNY]

12 minutes ago, growalot said:

I do not believe anyone said nor gave the impression of screw them...

not here maybe but they do exist at various levels.  a youth hunter shoots the big buck in the area with a little bit of luck.  now some guy comes foward with trail cam pictures and says you shot my buck.  worst case but ones much less heartless.  say there's a new hunter hunting down the road.  does everyone in the area hunt and pass deer in hopes they come across those passed deer.  maybe a few exceptions but i doubt it's much the case.  this legislation could help those new hunters out a bit.

[Five Seasons]

26 minutes ago, growalot said:

I agree with first time hunters...though the whole thing reeks. I do not agree telling youth that it is OK to shoot anything you wait for up to 5 years(if they bow hunt). Then they should magically flip a switch and think it's a bad thing....Kids brains don't work like that. So you are setting things up for,possible illegal activity... because it's much more difficult to wait after you've been allowed not to for that long...It would also only take a year, maybe 2 for busy ,active young people with ever tightening schedules to say..." Well this sucks!" and  stop hunting, when they have had to sit there passing deer.

I shot plenty of small bucks from the age of 16 through about 28. I didn't feel it was a bad thing when I decided to start letting them walk. I made my own choice. if anything I should have shot more doe, but grew up with an antler crazy family.

the issue I see with years is that you're not guaranteed a harvest every year. A young kid who maybe can only hunt thanksgiving week might miss out a few years. In a perfect world the new hunter should be allowed 5 tags, not years, but tags before AR's are imposed. Good luck educating people on that  it'd have to be an automated license thing and would probably drive underreporting.

[dbHunterNY]

so anyone wonder how the restrictions where picked for certain units?  i doubt this came from picking them out of a hat.

[growalot]

Quote

like Phade said education works.  it's keeping them in the game and engaged, to give you time to teach them.

Well there you go The very reason there is no need for this right? See in a perfect world...but everyone is thinking no one is teaching anyone, regardless of the #'s showing differently.

Hey There was JUST one year of the protect young buck campaign. Now suddenly they Have  to a law to do it...Want to tell me how much tangible evidence they have to say  ,mind you, a ONE year campaign failed, to push this legislation? I will stick with my original thoughts on this. It has nothing to do with herd management, everything to do with image and Cuomo doesn't like the image of an unsafe NY deer season...this helps that without ever having to publicly address it.

[phade]

20 minutes ago, Belo said:

I'm simply playing devils advocate. What other reason would the state have to enact a bill? The answer is to benefit a group of people through control.

For someone who is in the minority such as yourself who may have many parcels or good neighbors the law doesn't matter. For the majority of the state it "could" improve mature buck odds.

Personally I have 2 spots. 1 is ~100 acres with extreme pressure on all sides. the other is hundreds of acres with little pressure but a long drive and very difficult hunting.

So yeah, I'm not asking for sympathy, it's on me. And that's why I started with saying I'm mostly anti-AR. But I also "get it".

By eliminating a larger population of the pool, they now have revenue generation that didn't exist prior. This is also politically motivated; not biologically motivated. If it were, this document wouldn't have holes a Mack truck could drive through - such as the WMUs in and out. Or the fact that some WMUs have as much as 30-35% of their one year old bucks with 3 points a side. AR is supposed to advance the age class at a higher rate to two.

There is no getting it - if you have two spots - find a third if the first two aren't meeting your needs. It took us having an active 6 properties we hunt to get where we wanted. None are perfect, but they all add up cumulatively.

Edited February 28, 2017 by phade

[phade]

dbl post

Edited February 28, 2017 by phade

[growalot]

Quote

so anyone wonder how the restrictions where picked for certain units?  i doubt this came from picking them out of a hat.

Really?...because sometimes....I wonder.

[dbHunterNY]

11 minutes ago, Belo said:

I shot plenty of small bucks from the age of 16 through about 28. I didn't feel it was a bad thing when I decided to start letting them walk. I made my own choice. if anything I should have shot more doe, but grew up with an antler crazy family.

the issue I see with years is that you're not guaranteed a harvest every year. A young kid who maybe can only hunt thanksgiving week might miss out a few years. In a perfect world the new hunter should be allowed 5 tags, not years, but tags before AR's are imposed. Good luck educating people on that  it'd have to be an automated license thing and would probably drive underreporting.

by far i think that public ridicule would drive untruthful hunters to not play that card.  this goes into effect and everyone's vested following the law.  someone claims they've had a few "first deer" word will spread quick as they're cheating other local hunters out of opportunity.  i'm speaking for experience managing a co-op with antler restrictions and first time hunters being exempt.  rules or in this case law isn't perfectly enforced at first but works enough and better over time to serve the purpose.

[Five Seasons]

10 minutes ago, phade said:

 

There is no getting it - if you have two spots - find a third if the first two aren't meeting your needs. It took us having an active 6 properties we hunt to get where we wanted. None are perfect, but they all add up cumulatively.

I don't think we're syncing up here. I'm not bitching. book bucks are taken from both properties every year. I'm generally happy. What I'm trying to impress upon you is that 98% of hunters don't put the leg work in that you do, or don't have the time/money or means to. And you're probably better off for that or you might not have any properties to hunt unless you held the deed.

We all agree that access is the issue most hunters face. It's not impossible to get land. It's also not simple. Heck, I could have booted a guy off a farm he had been hunting for years after I married into the family and the grandpa said I could. Not cool of course so I didn't. I'm simply saying that it is highly unlikely to find land at NY that isn't already hunted, is free or wont take some effort to get into.

 

[dbHunterNY]

12 minutes ago, growalot said:

Really?...because sometimes....I wonder.

it came from DEC.  haha seriously.  all the hunter input surveys, buck management zones, etc all developed it.  DEC planned to roll it out.  Politics within DEC squashed it and now politics is bringing it back.

[Buckmaster7600]

I would love to know what info they used to determine what dwu's are included or not?


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[Buckmaster7600]

I would love to know what info they used to determine what dwu's are included or not?


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