SB 4739 - Establishes the yearling buck protection program

[Raymond Purdy]

SDM Deer Hunter Survey

 

Cornell April 2015 Survey = Hunter Desires Regionally

 

–         71-73.8% of all hunters felt “important to protect more yearling bucks” (SE/MV)

–         74.1-76.7% of all hunters are willing to accept some limitations on buck hunting opportunity to protect young bucks (SE/MV)

–         73.3-74.8% willing to accept some limitations on freedom to take any buck to protect  young bucks(SE/MV)

[G-Man]

Nice article but it was 99% about overpopulated does .. Not mature bucks..fact is want more bucks to breed doe during 1st rut you have 2 choices

1.. Shoot more does bring numbers down closer to 1 x1 ratio..

2. Close season during the rut..as stated 45% of all buck killed that week... We hunt no other animal during its prime breeding time..( We get to hunt Turkey date prime breeding in april) ( and every year I hear people scream to allow an early opening for Turkey as they gobble great in april) 

Either of these two options or both.will have a much bigger impact than ars. 

 

[stubborn1VT]

I don't find those #s even remotely convincing.  You can find a statistic to prove anything.

[Larry]

hey Ray don't know where you got you stuff from but here's the brake down you want the survey to I was chosen to be part of the survey so you should put in everything

buckharvestfactors2015.pdf

buckmgmtsdm2016.pdf

buckppt2016.pdf

Edited March 21, 2017 by Larry
adding a file

[Death From Above]

3 hours ago, growalot said:

Let me see...age structure...we are bad by killing the majority of the young buck. In the same breath it's bad the majority of the breeding is being done by the young buck. So the answer to this is protect the majority of the young buck with AR' s, So hunter go after the majority of bigger older bucks. This mainly being done during gun and the rut. Thus leaving the young buck to......breed the doe?????...Now remember a month prior to gun and the rut, bow hunters are targeting the more mature buck..and with cross bow  coming many more guys will be put there targeting all the bigger buck us greedy archers have been stealing from them for years...leaving even fewer mature buck for the rut...Am I reading this  long thing right?......

 

I see where the author stated that it was not good for the majority of the breeding to fall on the young bucks, which currently make up the majority of the bucks in our NY herd, and those bucks are not the most capable of handling all of the breeding and the subsequent wear and toll it takes on them prior to winter.  I don’t see where he stated it was bad for them to breed in general. 

His main point was that the ratio is off and that NY needs more bucks alive to do the job in a more timely and efficient manner.  I don’t see how it is hard to imagine that if we provide more young bucks a pass to the next year of life we will achieve more bucks than we have typically started the rut off with.  When you add age, size, experience to the equation the following year, then our herd is provided with some advantages to both improve our age structure and our overall buck numbers.  I believe that the author stressed a value on both sheer buck numbers and older deer to aid in the breeding.  Its not hard to derive the fact that higher numbers of bucks will equal more older bucks.

[Larry]

this will make for some good reading

The Facts on Antler Restrictions and Deer Hunting.docx

[growalot]

DFA....correct he didn't say BAD...the word he used in the summery was DETRIMENTAL..

Would you like to guess what a synonym  of bad is? Then we could continue splitting hairs.

[growalot]

Thanks for posting that Larry. It pretty much summed up what I was reading in Purdy' s post, as to what would occur.

[Larry]

don't know where he got his numbers from. the survey has no numbers like on it.

Here is another thing you have to ask is where did these state senators come up with this plan it wasn’t from the DEC . it had to be handed to them word for word.

Edited March 21, 2017 by Larry

[Death From Above]

3 hours ago, growalot said:

DFA....correct he didn't say BAD...the word he used in the summery was DETRIMENTAL..

Would you like to guess what a synonym  of bad is? Then we could continue splitting hairs.

 

 

Grow ... We are not splitting hairs here, instead you are changing the hair color altogether.

You made a statement, then asked a question.  I answered your question by clarifying what the author was saying.  By reading your statement one is left to assume that either you misunderstood his reasoning, or you where misrepresenting it in your post.

I personally do not believe that “misunderstanding” and “misrepresenting” are synonyms, in case you decide to suggest we are both saying the same thing once again.

 

[stubborn1VT]

Who knows Larry.  I found it hard to believe that 7 in 10 hunters are in favor of change.  That doesn't agree with human nature.  People don't really like change.  I also get a kick out of the wording.  All this change is to "protect yearling bucks".  LOL. As if yearling bucks are some kind of endangered species.  The real goal is to grow big ol' wallhangers.  Why not put that in the survey results, instead of hiding behind theoretical biology.  Given a day of internet research, I could craft a slanted article of my own, complete with fake statistics and justifications to promote MY point of view.  

And another thing that irks me about AR is that they make exceptions for youths.  If they're so serious about protecting yearling bucks, then why let the "utes" whack them?

We have what we call the "spikehorn rule" here in VT, meaning no shooting spikehorns.  (The kids get to shoot them.) I see bigger bucks, but some of that is because of fewer hunters in the woods and less access (more posted land).  I don't mind our spikehorn law, but 3 on a side would make me furious.  It doesn't really matter to me what the regulations are in NY, but I can't stand the wishes of the few dictating the rules for the many, especially when it is disguised as "what's best for the herd". 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

11 hours ago, Raymond Purdy said:

SDM Deer Hunter Survey

 

 

 

Cornell April 2015 Survey = Hunter Desires Regionally

 

 

 

–         71-73.8% of all hunters felt “important to protect more yearling bucks” (SE/MV)

 

–         74.1-76.7% of all hunters are willing to accept some limitations on buck hunting opportunity to protect young bucks (SE/MV)

 

–         73.3-74.8% willing to accept some limitations on freedom to take any buck to protect  young bucks(SE/MV)

 

"accept some limitations on buck hunting opportunity"

So that statement equals AR's? If you are hanging your hat on those statistics, couldn't there be other ideas in the hunters' heads that answered the question. The whole survey was statistically cute to justify the expense, rather than just coming out and canvasing the hunting population or a larger section. How about, "do you want AR's? "

[growalot]

I did not Change anything...I also did not read that article wrong. Though I'm sure you wish I had. The problem you and I are having is ,well you can not change the multiple holes in that article. You could also go back though the post and see an article link I posted,from a biologist that states the first to parish in rough winters are not the tween/ teen bucks your so worried about. It is the older and fawns that are the first to die. Your  AR push is what amounts to a ponzi type scheme for deer management.

[Raymond Purdy]

47 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

"accept some limitations on buck hunting opportunity"

So that statement equals AR's? If you are hanging your hat on those statistics, couldn't there be other ideas in the hunters' heads that answered the question. The whole survey was statistically cute to justify the expense, rather than just coming out and canvasing the hunting population or a larger section. How about, "do you want AR's? "

A simple survey was held on another site (ny hunt club) Starting March 2 when tons of negative comments came in concerning AR, the survey states simply " Antler Restrictions yes/no". A funny thing happened despite all those negative comments. 65% in favor, 35% no. Thats nearly 2-1 in favor. These numbers basically mirror the 8 Surveys NYSDEC/Cornell has done in the last 12 years but still NYSDEC failed to implement forcing the legislation route. Hmmmmmm

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, Raymond Purdy said:

A simple survey was held on another site (ny hunt club) Starting March 2 when tons of negative comments came in concerning AR, the survey states simply " Antler Restrictions yes/no". A funny thing happened despite all those negative comments. 65% in favor, 35% no. Thats nearly 2-1 in favor. These numbers basically mirror the 8 Surveys NYSDEC/Cornell has done in the last 12 years but still NYSDEC failed to implement forcing the legislation route. Hmmmmmm

The problem with hunting sites is that the members are typically the most interested of the general hunting population. the people that make it out for opening weekend and thanksgiving weekend aren't the ones hanging on these sites. Being more vested in the sport I would expect them to have more experience and having moved further down the hunters evolution path. And more likely to be in favor of the AR's or at least not against them becasue their standards are above what the AR's will be anyway. 

[Raymond Purdy]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

The problem with hunting sites is that the members are typically the most interested of the general hunting population. the people that make it out for opening weekend and thanksgiving weekend aren't the ones hanging on these sites. Being more vested in the sport I would expect them to have more experience and having moved further down the hunters evolution path. And more likely to be in favor of the AR's or at least not against them becasue their standards are above what the AR's will be anyway. 

When they come back nearly the same as numerous other surveys doesn't that ring true?

[growalot]

I'll give you a chance to provide a link to this NY Hunt Club,because the one I just looked up has a whopping 237 members and a whole lot of subjects in the general deer hunting forum posted in 2016 with no replies....

[Larry]

So what you’re saying it was not the DEC, Cornel survey. I have the survey and your numbers are not even close. I also post the results and conclusions of the survey above.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

22 minutes ago, Raymond Purdy said:

When they come back nearly the same as numerous other surveys doesn't that ring true?

I guess my personal experiences and hunters I talk to don't meet the same numbers. Hunters that live to deer hunt and have some years under their belts I see being either pro AR's or indifferent. The recreational hunters that like to do it but do not  live to do it seem to be the most against it. Then there are the ones like me, and I see this a lot. Feeling that our standards are above any AR that would be put in place but not wanting to take the ability of a hunter to evolve at their own pace. Something that I had the fortune to do over the 36 years I have been deer hunting. I know two casual hunters that got the survey and didn't send it in. Had no desire to be involved but now realize what was at stake...lol. Shame on them, but it reflects my point. 

I see the trend in the harvest data of letting younger bucks walk. I know many feel that the equations the DEC use to evaluate the harvest is flawed but it has been the same equation so the trend is likely still valid. It is headed in the right direction without the statewide restrictions, but not fast enough for a lot of peoples' liking. 

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Raymond Purdy]

15 minutes ago, growalot said:

I'll give you a chance to provide a link to this NY Hunt Club,because the one I just looked up has a whopping 237 members and a whole lot of subjects in the general deer hunting forum posted in 2016 with no replies....

18,750. Members. If you are on facebook you can find them there.

[Larry]

Followers are not the same as members.

[Raymond Purdy]

12 minutes ago, Larry said:

Followers are not the same as members.

Is a follower somebody who marches in the 105 year old parade......

[growalot]

I do not do face book nor twitter, again you walk around what I asked ...but I'm on the PC now so this is what I found in my search of NY hunt club....

http://nyhuntclub.com/index.php?forums/ny-deer-hunting-forums.38/

[Raymond Purdy]

16 minutes ago, growalot said:

I do not do face book nor twitter, again you walk around what I asked ...but I'm on the PC now so this is what I found in my search of NY hunt club....

http://nyhuntclub.com/index.php?forums/ny-deer-hunting-forums.38/

Are you referring to your ponzi type scheme suggestion....

[growalot]

Now Mr. Purdy...you seem to have a problem replying to the simplest things without deflection....See I understand ,because from your posts you must have to duck and weave a lot. Though when you have this defense strategy spill over into the simplest of subjects and questions ...Well it spot lights certain over all flaws you are harboring...

It was a simple request to have you give a link to the site YOU referenced...you dodged that...

Then when given a link found, You attempt to mock the find. I believe I am hearing the faint sound of the chain being pulled and the water swirling on your credibility.