My take on antler restrictions

[Death From Above]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

There you go. Now you are getting down to the real direction some of you want to go. Throw up whatever roadblocks you can think of to stifle success, and all the deer will live longer. Isn't that great. Maybe just shut deer hunting down every other year. That would work too. Not only that but enough more people would drop out of hunting and make even more deer live longer. Great! Now let's see just how many new pop-fad management plans we can throw out there in the name of making older deer. I'm sure if we try hard enough, we can wreck the entire sport of hunting with these damn crazy ideas designed to frustrate hunters.

Pretty sure I stated above that AR was not the best tool to accomplish this task.  Your response is also just an example of what else that I said above.  It simply can't be about improving our lousy buck to doe ratio can it?  It has to be about you and your desire to pull the trigger.  And now I am in your eyes wrong for wanting to benefit the herd by attempting to promote some change that would improve a deficit of bucks that we as hunters produce.  All because I'd like to see more bucks overall in the herd, which has benefits to our deer herd.  Sorry, I see improving our deer herd as more important that what you or I get to shoot.  Guess I differ on which side of that equation is the selfish side.

You somehow think that a desire to improve herd ratios is a crazy idea to frustrate hunters?  Really?  That is the goal, to frustrate hunters?  So what now, I advocate a smaller buck harvest until we improve one of,if not the worst buck to doe ratio in the country....so maybe, just maybe you will quit hunting so I can have more bucks to myself?  Guess my true motives just got revealed. 

The sad thing is that you say this "pop-fad" tool or any other one designed to allow for a change to our herd structure would ruin hunting.  You can't even see the possibility that it might improve hunting in NY regardless if John or Joe get to kill the bigger rack bucks they so desperately want.    Cause once again it doesn't matter to you.  You could care less about considering potential changes to seasons or bag limits that might be better for our deer.  All that matters is that you get to kill whatever you want to, and apparently don't experience any frustrations in the process.

 

[chas0218]

14 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

I do think there are areas of the state that could use AR's but that's not what's happening they are trying to put it in to many units at a time.

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There are 27 WMU with the 3 Point rule and 29 WMU with the 4 point rule. Have you looked at the map in which those WMU lay? Majority are in the areas where the terrian is NOT farm land. It is hilly/mountainous terrain. Some of the 6 point WMU's have had AR for for as long as I can remember.

12 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

Lol to hard for you to understand then...trail cams food plots tree houses is not hunting. And trying to push beliefs of what should and should not be killed for the simple reason you want bone on your wall in not hunting. Don't agree don't care really. It's things like this that is going to make hunting a thing of the past let's just regulate it to appease people with deeper pockets

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OOOoooohhhh so I see where you are coming from, you're pissed that other people will get more chances at deer than you? Or that you feel left out because people hunt differently than you and you're jealous of their lifestyle of hunting. I have a question, what implements do you use to hunt? If you use anything other than a homemade bow, arrows, and flint arrowheads you sir are a hypocrite. And I know you trap have saw all your success and you do a great but I see modern traps being used all store bought so again you are using modern conveniences like so many other people do and once again because they hunt differently you say they aren't hunters. You're statements are ludicrous and have no weight. Do you own land and/or hunt in the effected areas under the AR?

 

 

There isn't pleasing everyone but from the data DEC collected in 2006 then again last year they had the same results for hunter satisfaction. 41% so the majority of the ones polled were not satisfied. If you didn't take the time to take the poll then I guess you shouldn't complain. It's like voting for an elected official some complain about the results but didn't get out there and vote. The area I talked about having the mature bucks is outside of the AR but the other areas where I hunt is inside the AR restrictions and I could see all hunters (the ones that like big bucks and the ones that don't) 

[Five Seasons]

15 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

Passing on small deer doesn't make you a hunter...it makes you a trophy gatherer...



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that may be the dumbest thing I've read in this whole debate. If I pass a small doe in favor of a larger doe is that because I want a trophy or just more meat for all the work involved?

 

[chas0218]

11 hours ago, G-Man said:

I try to shoot older deer points are irrelevant that's me personally.. Many of my.friends have started to do the same but I can honestly.say if you gonna shoot a small buck shoot a four pt. Or a spike..leave those 1.5 year old 7,8,9,10+ alone..you can spout off all you want about how a spike can be a 10+ but I will say an 8 is already an 8 maybe it will be just bigger or have more points next year. But barring injury it will be at least an 8..  A spike.. Who knows.. Most.likely born late..so it will take 2 or 3 years to catch up. 

Taking the best and healthiest via point restrictions in large hunting densitiy areas will high grade a herd same as cutting all the good timber leaves trees to grow but they may become large but are "scabs" never worth anything but pass on their seed and the woods are less diverse.. 

If they are irrelevant how do you tell how old a buck is? I don't want to get into the argument that antlers don't tell the age, but other than that and a few other attributes you can't tell without the antlers.

[WNYBuckHunter]

17 hours ago, chas0218 said:

 I have saw 1 photo so far from WNY none from you so if you want to make this claim put up or shut up.

How many more do you want to see lol

I have piles of them

[stubby68]

[chas0218]

17 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Flame away but there is no chance in hell I'm passing 130" 8 points in NY. And if my neighbor did and gave me grief for shooting it he'd get a groin punch. That's great if you are, that's a serious commitment to holding out


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I won't flame you, I shot a 130" 10 point 2 years ago. On that particular property we have a 10 point rule and it must be 100" or bigger. Out of all the deer I have saw and shot on that property the 10 points are 130" or larger. I won't use the term genes but a lot of them show similar characteristics. My neighbor practices the same thing so between us we cover about 2 sq. miles of land.

[chas0218]

17 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

What did they age? Can't tell from only the antlers. Looking at them and in my area all but 1 of those would be 2.5 year old.

[stubby68]

18 hours ago, chas0218 said:

Ok so how many have you saw? I have been hunting for 16 years I have saw only one 1.5 year old that was an exemption to the rule he was an 8 point. I'm sorry but for you to make a statement that assumes there are so many 1.5 year old deer out there that are 8 points and bigger then you shouldn't be concerned about the AR's if that is your stance. You like so many on the other thread about this are using no factual data. If that is the case show me I am wrong put up some game cam photos of huge number of 8 point 1.5 year olds. I have saw 1 photo so far from WNY none from you so if you want to make this claim put up or shut up.

I think if looking at the big picture how many of those deer will not be around 1 or 2 years from now from what I have saw on my own property and others I hunt in 2 years we had 4 8 points over 100" and another big 8 I passed 3 times this year over 130". I think if someone has the drive to be a hunter and doesn't give up after 1 season they will be successful the next.

    All of these are 1.5 years old all on same property all can still be killed under ar. I am not the only on who has stated they see many 1.5 year old 6,8 and 10 points. Almost sounds like you age deer by counting points alone see as the dec. I am against ar because it takes choice away and it does nothing for the herd. If you or anyone else want to help the best thing would be to push for a one buck rue. That would go farther to letting more bucks live then ar. Killing less bucks over all would be better right? If it really is about the animal and not about the antlers then people should be fine with only getting one set of antlers each year. However that is not the case for most. They want lots of big antlers so the can get 2 or 3 sets every year.

[stubby68]

I do not put restrictions on what size or a the bucks have to be to kill them on our property. Many many 1.5 year olds are killed yet we still have bucks like these. Some of the 2.5 and up that we have. We do not high grade and kill all the big boys so we can have them as decorations. We hunt for the meat and the 1.5 or 2.5 are better eating. I have and will continue to pass old bucks to get a younger better tasting one. Unless it is my last chance then I will fill my tag with whatever gets in front of me. I paid for that tag and will make sure it gets filled. If it is an old buck it gets donated.

               I pay for my tags not anyone else. I should have the choice to hunt they way I want and kill what I want with those tags. The day someone else pays for my tags guns hunting clothes and lad is the day the should be able to tell me how to hunt and what to kill.

MOV_6014_2.3gp

[Rack Attack]

It's nice that you post two separate pictures of the same deer, to try and make your point.  The first and last picture are the same deer...

[growalot]

OK Chas... Tell me how old you think this buck is.  I'll even show me in the picture and be honest in saying (not happy about it but that's life) I'm not a small woman and I'm wearing 4 layers in this picture...it was around 10 or so degrees out. that should give you an idea of  body size. How would you age him seeing a full picture. I'll tell you the reason for this post after you answer.

Edited April 5, 2017 by growalot

[chas0218]

41 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

How many more do you want to see lol

I have piles of them

PM them, no sense in cluttering the thread.

[stubby68]

15 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

17 minutes ago, Rack Attack said:

It's nice that you post two separate pictures of the same deer, to try and make your point.  The first and last picture are the same deer...

                   Didn't realize  that happened these are the ones that should have been there.

MOV950564.3gp

[stubby68]

29 minutes ago, growalot said:

OK Chas... Tell me how old you think this buck is.  I'll even show me in the picture and be honest in saying (not happy about it but that's life) I'm not a small woman and I'm wearing 4 layers in this picture...it was around 10 or so degrees out. that should give you an idea of  body size. How would you age him seeing a full picture. I'll tell you the reason for this post after you answer.

They gain on point every year don't they? By the way nice buck

Edited April 5, 2017 by stubby68
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[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

What did they age? Can't tell from only the antlers. Looking at them and in my area all but 1 of those would be 2.5 year old.

the last is easily a yearling in mine

[growalot]

Thanks Stubby..I think Chas won't answer that post  so I just tell why I posted it...The  buck was hanging on the pole. When  person drove in and his only comment to me was  "imagine how big he'd been next year". Now that out of all the things people have said stuck with me.

It didn't diminish my experience because...well his rack 2012 is still hanging from a wire in the garage like all my other bucks...that or the basement rafters. I do not have mounts  made and I measure nearly all my hunting by shot placement...That was a great hunt. Dang near all my hunts over the last several decades have been Great hunts.

Though if I were a person of a different mind set that passive aggressive comment could have diminished the experience another hunter could have had shooting the same buck. That is the reason it stuck with me...the smallness in another persons being,  to feel they need or have a right to act that way.. This is the type driving AR's and it disturbs me, that there are so many of them out there.

[chas0218]

14 minutes ago, growalot said:

OK Chas... Tell me how old you think this buck is.  I'll even show me in the picture and be honest in saying (not happy about it but that's life) I'm not a small woman and I'm wearing 4 layers in this picture...it was around 10 or so degrees out. that should give you an idea of  body size. How would you age him seeing a full picture. I'll tell you the reason for this post after you answer.

Guessing your area is Naples 8N I would say 4.5 years old.

[growalot]

3 1/2 more like it and the finger lakes region...though just that comment tells me even you should know this 8N region has no earthy reason for AR's. PS younger than the buck in the Gator and actually smaller body as well. Look at his head shape compared to the gator buck. Though that wasn't the point of the post...

Edited April 5, 2017 by growalot

[chas0218]

24 minutes ago, growalot said:

Thanks Stubby..I think Chas won't answer that post  so I just tell why I posted it...The  buck was hanging on the pole. When  person drove in and his only comment to me was  "imagine how big he'd been next year". Now that out of all the things people have said stuck with me.

It didn't diminish my experience because...well his rack 2012 is still hanging from a wire in the garage like all my other bucks...that or the basement rafters. I do not have mounts  made and I measure nearly all my hunting by shot placement...That was a great hunt. Dang near all my hunts over the last several decades have been Great hunts.

Though if I were a person of a different mind set that passive aggressive comment could have diminished the experience another hunter could have had shooting the same buck. That is the reason it stuck with me...the smallness in another persons being,  to feel they need or have a right to act that way.. This is the type driving AR's and it disturbs me, that there are so many of them out there.

Sorry I am at work can only respond when I have some free time. But here is my thing you kept the antlers if they mean nothing then why wouldn't you have just thrown them out? Come on the antlers do mean something to you as you kept them, how many doe skulls have you kept that you shot?

[chas0218]

19 minutes ago, growalot said:

3 1/2 more like it and the finger lakes region...though just that comment tells me even you should know this 8N region have no earthy reason for AR's. PS younger than the buck in the Gator and actually smaller body as well. Look at his head shape compared to the gator buck. Though that wasn't the point of the post...

See my father in law just had his deer aged at 4 1/2 151" 9 point in 8N. Either way all of the deer you showed fall under the AR and could have been taken and were they were all 2 1/2 or older I'm not sure what your point is?

 

Let me add we all thought this deer was 5 1/2 or 6 1/2 based on the size of the body and the rack. FWIW the biologistics said it could have been 5 1/2 the jaw fell in between the 2 ages. Might have been a late drop as a fawn, no one really knows for sure. We had him on camera 3 years in a row bigger each year.

Edited April 5, 2017 by chas0218

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, stubby68 said:

    All of these are 1.5 years old all on same property all can still be killed under ar. I am not the only on who has stated they see many 1.5 year old 6,8 and 10 points. Almost sounds like you age deer by counting points alone see as the dec. I am against ar because it takes choice away and it does nothing for the herd. If you or anyone else want to help the best thing would be to push for a one buck rue. That would go farther to letting more bucks live then ar. Killing less bucks over all would be better right? If it really is about the animal and not about the antlers then people should be fine with only getting one set of antlers each year. However that is not the case for most. They want lots of big antlers so the can get 2 or 3 sets every year.

i claim BS that all those bucks are yearlings.... i won't discredit yearlings can have higher quantities of points in your defense.

[growalot]

Because I am a collector...I collect things to be used for later projects and Mr. B wanted to save them as a project for him...he bought some cherry plaques a few years ago to mount a bunch of my racks...that's his deal which he has yet to do.....me I'll eventually make something out of them...I have a bucket of racks and  some heads I have found...I even made that 8pt into a skull mount. Only to see if I could ,how long it would take and how it would turn out...It is sitting behind the big screen TV in the PC room collecting dust ...I have one mount only and it's the 6pt the old guy I killed it for, so he'd have food for the winter...I gave him the whole buck rack and all...he cut off the rack and mounted it on scrap wood he had ,stained and varnished it. It will be the only rack I cherish. That was a great hunt as well for many reasons. I have more picture of my doe kills than my bucks and as I have stated many times over many years on this site I have no need of racks the picture do just fine. These could go on for a long while... I have been hunting a long long time. As I said I have had many a great hunt and as most people I do enjoy the memories. I also enjoy knowing I can share those memories with my grandson through pictures. Teaching him what really matters in all of those picture, shot placement and clean kills. The one thing he will be able to take pride in as a hunter as I do. See Chas neither of us have the ability to actually grow a rack...So there is really no pride to be had in how big a rack is on the deer we shoot...but how well we kill it is something to take pride in. Things being lost to apparently today's deer hunter.

[chas0218]

10 minutes ago, growalot said:

Because I am a collector...I collect things to be used for later projects and Mr. B wanted to save them as a project for him...he bought some cherry plaques a few years ago to mount a bunch of my racks...that's his deal which he has yet to do.....me I'll eventually make something out of them...I have a bucket of racks and  some heads I have found...I even made that 8pt into a skull mount. Only to see if I could ,how long it would take and how it would turn out...It is sitting behind the big screen TV in the PC room collecting dust ...I have one mount only and it's the 6pt the old guy I killed it for, so he'd have food for the winter...I gave him the whole buck rack and all...he cut off the rack and mounted it on scrap wood he had ,stained and varnished it. It will be the only rack I cherish. That was a great hunt as well for many reasons. I have more picture of my doe kills than my bucks and as I have stated many times over many years on this site I have no need of racks the picture do just fine. These could go on for a long while... I have been hunting a long long time. As I said I have had many a great hunt and as most people I do enjoy the memories. I also enjoy knowing I can share those memories with my grandson through pictures. Teaching him what really matters in all of those picture, shot placement and clean kills. The one thing he will be able to take pride in as a hunter as I do. See Chas neither of us have the ability to actually grow a rack...So there is really no pride to be had in how big a rack is on the deer we shoot...but how well we kill it is something to take pride in. Things being lost to apparently today's deer hunter.

Okay so once again, you re-purpose the antlers into furniture, decor, whatever you want. But they don't mean anything to you. They obviously mean something to you whether it is enjoyment of a mount like some or making art with them you enjoy the antlers. This is kind of my point no matter how much people say they "Dont' care about the bone" or "Who cares about that stuff you can't eat" they still care by doing something with it one way or another.

Is there any other part of a deer you re-purpose bone wise?

[growalot]

 

 

Chas ...why am I not surprised with your NOT getting the point of that post? Again you talking of your fathers buck clearly swings inline with ,No earthly reason for AR's in 8N...keep talking...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

chas