DEC Formulating Their "5 Year Deer Management Plan"

[wztirem]

Gentlemen & Ladies, 

  It is time, to let the new DEC commissioner know how we feel about the present DEC deer management policy in this state!This is a crucial time, as the 5-year Deer Plan is currently being constructed! 

  Emails are good, but real letters are better! 

  Email the DEC Commissioner - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservationhttp://www.dec.ny.gov/about/407.html 

  or Write the Commissioner: 

  NYS Department of Environmental Conservation  Commissioner Joe Martens

625 Broadway

Albany, NY 12233-1011

[SteveMcD]

They don't even have a one year plan. In region 3 they have not done a complete deer herd survey in years. How they manage to justify DMPs escapes me.  >

[Dave]

I hunt in 4W and this past season I saw more does than I have seen in awhile. But we saw few bucks, Where are the bucks? Our gang has about 450 acres what we can hunt and not much to show for it. Saw two 6tp bucks during bow season and my brother shot one in gun season. I took a doe in bow but that's it for about 13 hunters. We don't shoot does in our club and neither do the people around us. Also we don't shoot spikes and this had been our policy for many years.

Dave

[G-Man]

I try to do my own management plan within the dec's. their areas are to large to manage effectively. We take a minimum of 10 doe a year just to keep the numbers at a decent level on our property, we try to take 5 buck and usually do. The state raises and lowers doe tags every year but i haven't seen a decrease in number of deer seen/taken off our property and the surrounding properties. I wish they would put mandatory deer checks in place maybe they would have a better idea of the number of deer in a dmu and decrease the size to better handle the numbers better.

[Fantail]

5 Year plan huh?

[orion]

G-man  15 deer a year, How much land is that?

[G-Man]

We hunt 274 acres, the neighbor to the north only hunts 5 days a year and he has 254 acres usually never shoots doe, no permission to hunt there. The neighbor to the south has 150 acres and hunts by himself usually getting 2 doe and a buck. I have the only food plots/ ag fields  for about 2 miles. If my neighbors would start to take more deer i would cut back on what we take, but i don't see it happening any time soon. Since we started hunting doe hard we see more and larger buck...why i'm not sure i think the doe are fewer and the bucks have to travel to find one thats ready to breed? My neighbor to the south sees less deer than 20years ago when he tells me herds of 40 plus doe would run by and he would have to find the spike running with them to get his buck, but bigger bucks and took his best this year in over 45+ years of hunting, he also allows me to plant some of his fields into food plots/hay mixes which he benifits from selling the hay, and i feel benifit the deer herd. There are times when the dec releases the total take town by town that my group has taken a full 1% of the reported take in my town... i really don't think that many people report their kill, and the numbers are way off. So i just try to control the deer in my neck of the woods, and have seen forest regrowth that use to be severly stunted when i bought back in 93' and best of all a good group of guys i hunt with having fun and still getting "their deer" with out ar's or anything more than the state mandates.

[FULLDRAWXX75]

We hunt 274 acres, the neighbor to the north only hunts 5 days a year and he has 254 acres usually never shoots doe, no permission to hunt there. The neighbor to the south has 150 acres and hunts by himself usually getting 2 doe and a buck. I have the only food plots/ ag fields  for about 2 miles. If my neighbors would start to take more deer i would cut back on what we take, but i don't see it happening any time soon. Since we started hunting doe hard we see more and larger buck...why i'm not sure i think the doe are fewer and the bucks have to travel to find one thats ready to breed? My neighbor to the south sees less deer than 20years ago when he tells me herds of 40 plus doe would run by and he would have to find the spike running with them to get his buck, but bigger bucks and took his best this year in over 45+ years of hunting, he also allows me to plant some of his fields into food plots/hay mixes which he benifits from selling the hay, and i feel benifit the deer herd. There are times when the dec releases the total take town by town that my group has taken a full 1% of the reported take in my town... i really don't think that many people report their kill, and the numbers are way off. So i just try to control the deer in my neck of the woods, and have seen forest regrowth that use to be severly stunted when i bought back in 93' and best of all a good group of guys i hunt with having fun and still getting "their deer" with out ar's or anything more than the state mandates.

G-man,

The reason you are seeing more bucks is due to the drop in doe numbers, known fact that does will drive the bucks off the property to take the prime feeding areas. Fewer does, frees up some of those feeding area's.

Also, few does means more competition with the bucks during the rut.

Before we lost our property in Broome Co., we always hunted does during the archery season, and took as many as we could get permits for. We also, always saw bucks and most yrs. we tagged out on permits and reg. buck tags. Granted, there were only three of us hunting @ 300 acre with an occasional neighbor dropping in once in a while. But never more than 6 hunters at a given time.

I know for a fact the deer traffic changed due to hunting pressures from connecting properties and hunting pressure. Our property bordered a rather large piece of "Posted" private property that the deer would run back and forth to take cover.

The "old" theory of not shooting does when the laws permit it, has put the deer population in the state it is now. I my own back yard, I see 8-10 does to every one buck. Not good.

IMO, DEC needs to enstate a few last day "doe days" in the Northern Zone like they used to back in the 60's, or an either sex deer kill on the last day of the seasons to thin the herds some.

FDXX75

[G-Man]

I personal would like to see a earn a buck program, 1st it would create mandotory deer checks to have your doe tagged to get a buck tag maybe allowing the dec to get its hands on some real numbers to work with. 2nd There are a lot more deer out there than people think and it would allow everyone to get their meat for the freezer. No more paying extra for a chance a doe tag... 3rd , after the new numbers are accessed giving out a buck tag by lottery (like a dmp now) would create more revenue than dmp tags. or when you by your licence give random tags out for either sex. There are a lot of people out there who still get doe tags and never use them..

[orion]

G-man you are harvesting more deer than anyone in my hunting party sees. We have 300 acres and would think the whole area by us doesn't have the deer density that you are harvesting.

This is the reason deer management plans are so hard to implement especially statewide.

How many deer per square mile do you think you have?

[G-Man]

I started another post in the qdm section to answer that..going to have to do a camera survey. I know that we don't seem to make adent in the population we've taken 281 deer since 93 of which 79 have been antlered bucks. Our 2 best years were 2000 21 total deer taken 8 were buck. And last year 21 total 11 antlerd buck.this is total for bow and gun and muzzleloader. This is with an average of 10 hunters.                      At least from my own property I do not see how the dec management areas can be properly managed they are way to big! I will also say my land is under extreme habitat management,making cover,foodplots,ect. You cannot see further than 75 yards through out most of my woods and can bowhunt within 50 yards of another person and never see or hear the deer they just shot. We do not drive deer and hate to tell you the number of deer passed up every year while bow and gun hunting. I have a friend who lives down the street who hunts at my place,he has 85 acres of his neighbors land to hunt but hunts with us because he can see more deer in a day than he will see on the 85 acres all season.

[orion]

that's the problem with deer management, even if the DEC decided to do footwork where do they go ? Your property ? Your neighbors which seem to have considerably less?  A few miles from me there are some cornfields, we have food plots, others have nothing. which land you happen to walk on holds huge differences in deer density yet only a few miles if that apart...

"I know that we don't seem to make a dent in the population"  I also fell the best lands will hold a certain amount of deer if you shoot 20 deer i feel 20 deer from the surrounding areas will fill those spots leaving the less desirable land with fewer deer, not your land.

I guess what I am trying to say that the good land will hold x amount of deer and then the excess will start dispersing to surrounding land, no excess the surrounding land feels the loss not the good land.

[G-Man]

Yes that is the problem, at least you understand it. there are many out there who will blame the dec for lack of deer,ect.. But do not understand surrounding land use, maturing woodlands, development, let alone their own intrusion into the woods effects their hunting experiance. I have a lot of small camps to the north of me that show up a week or two before the season hop on their 4 wheelers/side by sides and buzz around their woods hanging stands, scouting, just being invasive. Then then wonder where all the deer have gone? I can tell you into hiding!! A few days previous you could drive by and see deer standing on their lawns ...now  tough to even see one at night. I especially like the argument that i've hunted the same place for 20 years!! There just are no deer anymore!! Well the brushy draw they use to hunt is now a mature woodland and the deer are now crossing 100 yrds or more further away since the cover the brush use to provide is gone.. I really don't see how the dec is supose to make a plan when they are trying to cover such a large area..

[Doc]

Actually there is no such thing as one-size-fits-all when it comes to deer management schemes. That's why when I hear such suggestions as state-wide AR, or Earn-a-buck, one buck per season, or eliminating doe harvests, or massively increasing doe harvests, I realize that these things are being proposed by people that do not understand just how "local" deer management has to be in order to be correct. We tend to offer suggestions based on the herd that we see on our own little piece of hunting ground and assume that the rest of the state is in the same condition.

That is why the DEC has broken the state up into a northern and southern zone, and has broken those zones into regions and the regions into WMUs. And as pointed out in the posts above, even that is not small enough increments to be fool-proof. It's way better than blanket management of the entire state, but still has some problems.

So whenever someone feels that they have the exact answer for a management program that will cure all the ills of NYS, just say "NO"..... lol. They probably don't.

[G-Man]

Doc, As the saying goes... You hit the nail on the head!

[Pat Rockets]

C'mon feeders

[nyantler]

Rocket.. you're like a broken record... OOPs you might be too young to know what a record is.

[Pat Rockets]

Im 32 buddy..and im lookin for a profitable program for this broken state..like i said 15.5 mil possible..jobs..got a better program that doesnt involve just your interests..also feeders can make bigger deer for me..bigger racks for you..results immediately..and tourism from the rest of the country when we get it done..everyone wins...but you hate it so..

[nyantler]

Lighten up Francis! It was a joke..  :

[Pat Rockets]

If yer so smart..take a moment and come up  with a more profitable program..thats your joke

[nyantler]

I don't care about a profitable program... I only care about whats best for both the deer and hunting... and that plan would be for hunters to educate themselves on whitetails and whitetail habitat and do the right thing in there area to ensure that the herd is healthy and the hunting is good... I don't need the DEC to tell me that... and I certainly don't need feeders to help me find bigger bucks.

[Pat Rockets]

Theres a broken record!..bigger bucks..bigger bucks..bigger bucks

#1. If theres $, the state can maintain your hunting area

#2.no one said you had to hunt over feeders..and i suggested makin a no kill radius around said feeders. Also a profit when idiots decide to abuse the privalage of a  feeder..a huge fine or jailtime can be enforced

#3.feeders would promote a healthier herd

#4. Giving hunters the few more precious moments to judge a deer may greatly reduce yearling kills

Education costs $..and you dont care where that comes from..you just want

[Pat Rockets]

P.s..i have 3 up and coming boys..id like the future to hold hunting opportunities for them and their children as well..

[erussell]

Theres a broken record!..bigger bucks..bigger bucks..bigger bucks

#1. If theres $, the state can maintain your hunting area

#2.no one said you had to hunt over feeders..and i suggested makin a no kill radius around said feeders. Also a profit when idiots decide to abuse the privalage of a  feeder..a huge fine or jailtime can be enforced

#3.feeders would promote a healthier herd

#4. Giving hunters the few more precious moments to judge a deer may greatly reduce yearling kills

Education costs $..and you dont care where that comes from..you just want

Feeders would mean more deer make it through the winter and that is not what the DEC want's. We just spent the last 10 yrs murdering the Doe population in the southern zone to get the numbers down I don't think they are going to turn around and try to increase the population again to the late 90's numbers. But I will say feeding would probably help the northern zone deer during the spring and summer to help them fatten up for the harsh winters. Southern zone deer don't need the extra feed, even after all the snow we got here this winter there still fat and happy.

[Pat Rockets]

In the same sense russ..having feeders near by may increase take..drawing deer to each feeding area..also a restriction on antlers may reduce "harvest" numbers..alotta hunters shoot spikes and 4s and 6s..they just wont report em