Electrical question

[mlammerhirt]

The last couple weeks we have had an off an on rotting type smell in our finished basement....chalked it up to not running a dehumidifier so we opened some vents in the glass block windows and the smell seemed to disappear. Fast forward to the last couple of days and then today then smell was pretty bad. So we turned to Google and everything lead us to an electrical issue. We started checking electrical outlets and even changed what we thought was a faulty gfi plug in the kitchen because it kept popping. Last thing we did was pull the cover off the main breaker panel and check wires, breakers and we noticed an oil type residue dripping down the inside of the box off the ground.

Long story short have any of you electricians ever seem this....this oil seems to have the same smell we have been smelling throughout the basement.

Let me know what you guys think.

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[Lawdwaz]

I've chased down lots of bad odor calls over the years (in another life) and it was almost always a dead critter.  Mouse, rat, rabbit, squirrel, bird, human etc.  Never had it be an electrical issue...........

Good luck and keep us posted!

[sodfather]

Hard to tell without pictures of inside the panel. Does this oil residue smell like it's a burnt smell.

[moog5050]

How does an electrical issue cause oil residue. I would assume the oil is causing the electrical issue.  But then again, I AM NO ELECTRICIAN. 

[mlammerhirt]

I can post a pick later....the oil does smell somewhat Burt.

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[virgil]

Agree with above. Never heard of a foul odor from an electrical issue. Do you have any floor drains down there?  Sometimes the floor drains in my basement need to be flushed because the traps get smelly if I haven't used the shower down there in a while. 

[mlammerhirt]

I know google can be a hit or miss...but there was a ton about fishy smell and electrical problems

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[ELMER J. FUDD]

I've seen old boxes or a balast have what looks like oil. The balast in a flourescent tube light fixture will do this. In a box it's from old electrical tape I think. Post pix please. 

[sodfather]

If it's an old panel and old wire back in the day especially in the city they used aluminum wire with black cloth coating. It could have just melted away and that oily substance could be residue 

[mlammerhirt]

Newer house...built in 94.
Will get a pic shortly

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[sodfather]

Is it a Ryan home?

[mlammerhirt]

Best pics I could get....the oil residue seems to be coming from the braided ground wire and running down.

When I just pulled the cover now I noticed that faint oil smell like from an old Lionel train.

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[mlammerhirt]

No I believe the builder was Barden

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[sodfather]

Head scratcher!! I would start by making sure there is no loose connection. A loose connection could heat up and give off that smell. 

[mlammerhirt]

Could it be coming from the main on the outside of the house? And running down the braided ground wire?

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[sodfather]

9 hours ago, mlammerhirt said:

Could it be coming from the main on the outside of the house? And running down the braided ground wire?

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That's what it looks like. It may be the substance inside the case of the main wire. 

[mlammerhirt]

Ok that's the direction I was heading....should I contact an electrican to look things over first or call national grid to come out an look at the main/ meter outside the house

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[moog5050]

14 minutes ago, mlammerhirt said:

Ok that's the direction I was heading....should I contact an electrican to look things over first or call national grid to come out an look at the main/ meter outside the house

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I would call national grid first.  No charge.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

 

http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit Protection/Miniature Circuit Breakers/0110DB0301.pdf

Data Bulletin 0110DB0301R05/11 05/2011 Replaces 0110DB0301R03/11 03/2011 Oily Residue Found in Electrical Distribution and Control Equipment © 2003–2011 Schneider Electric All Rights Reserved ™ Introduction Customers are concerned about oily residues found inside electrical distribution and control equipment. They come to Schneider Electric and other electrical equipment manufacturers seeking answers to what it is, possible effects, and what can be done to eliminate it. Oily Residue Tests have shown that the oily residue is actually the plasticizer that is a component of the resin used to make the thermoplastic PVC wire insulation. The plasticizer is added by the wire manufacturer to make the insulation more flexible. Research1 has shown that elevated temperatures and humidity can destroy the relatively weak chemical bond between the plasticizer and the PVC. Given sufficient heat and time, the plasticizer can separate from the PVC wire insulation. Once the plasticizer begins to separate, the process will continue. Unless prevented by an outer jacket of nylon, such as with THHN for example, the plasticizer can exude through the outer surface of the insulation. The plasticizer can also migrate along the stranded wire of the conductor to the end of the insulation via capillary action, and possibly enhanced by a process known as “electroendosmosis”.2 Why does the plasticizer separate from the insulation? Other than having some relation to elevated temperature and humidity, the electrical wire and cable manufacturers do not completely understand why this phenomenon occurs in some installations and not others. Effects of the Oily Residue (Plasticizer Separation) on Electrical Equipment When the plasticizer separates from the PVC insulation, several undesirable effects can occur: • Wire insulation can become hard and brittle. The purpose of the plasticizer is to keep the insulation flexible. • Oily residue (plasticizer) on surfaces of electrical equipment and electrical components can reduce the life of the products and cause performance issues similar to other foreign contaminates like dust, dirt, water, condensation, hydrocarbon sprays or compounds, etc. Recommended Action Schneider Electric recommends that inspection for oily residue (plasticizer separation) be added to your routine inspection and maintenance activities. If oily residue is found: • Do not try to clean the surfaces • Make sure the oily residue is not from the lubricant applied to the wires to facilitate pulling wires through the conduits into the electrical equipment. — Oily residue caused by plasticizer separation is normally found at the ends of the wires where they are stripped for connections etc. — Lubricant applied for pulling activities is normally on the outer surfaces of the insulation. • If you suspect that the oily residue is caused by plasticizer separation, contact the wire manufacturer that supplied the wiring to your contractor. • If oily residue (plasticizer) contamination is found on the surfaces of the electrical equipment and components, the equipment and components are probably damaged. Since there is no practical way to inspect the insulators, etc. in the equipment or the internal parts of the components, Schneider Electric recommends that the contaminated parts of the electrical system be replaced. 1 Peter Wronski, “Exudation of Plasticizers from PVC Insulation Components” presented to the IEEE PSC-ICC Committee on 10/31/2000. 2 National Electrical Code, 2011 Edition, Informational Note for section 310.10. Oily Residue Found in Electrical Distribution and Control Equipment 0110DB0301R05/11 Data Bulletin 05/2011 Electrical equipment should be installed, operated, serviced, and maintained only by qualified personnel. No responsibility is assumed by Schneider Electric for any consequences arising out of the use of this material. Square D™ and Schneider Electric™ are trademarks or registered trademarks of Schneider Electric. Other trademarks used herein are the property of their respective owners. Schneider Electric USA, Inc. 3700 Sixth St SW Cedar Rapids, IA 52404 1-888-778-2733 www.schneider-electric.us 2 © 2003–2011 Schneider Electric All Rights Reserved FAQs Q I have found an “oily” appearing substance on some of the insulators, circuit breakers, terminal blocks, etc. on some of my electrical equipment. What is this stuff? A See the explanation under “Oily Residue”. Q I have also found that some of the insulators in my electrical equipment have deteriorated, or are falling apart. Why is this, and what is causing it? A The plasticizer used in the manufacturing of the wire insulation is typically a hydrocarbon based petroleum derivative. This type of petroleum derivative will cause deterioration of some types of insulating materials commonly used by manufacturers of electrical equipment. Q Why is the “oily” plasticizer coming out of the wire insulation? A We suggest you contact the wire manufacturer for more information. Based upon reports to us, the problem seems to be more prevalent with circuit wires running up a distance above the electrical equipment. Longer runs of wire also seem to experience the greatest loss of the plasticizer. Heat and humidity tend to accelerate the loss of the plasticizer. Q Why does the “oily” substance appear only in the equipment and not on the surface of the wires? A Typical wire insulation is THHN or THWN. This type of wire insulation has an outer jacket of nylon. The plasticizer cannot migrate or penetrate through the nylon jacket so it runs down the strands of the wire until it reaches a point where it can escape. This point is normally where the wire insulation has been stripped away from the conductors. Q Is it typical for wire to lose the plasticizer such as we are seeing? A No, to our knowledge that does not seem to be typical; however the wire manufacturer should be contacted for more specific information. Q How does the “oily” substance get all over the circuit breakers, insulators, and other parts of the electrical equipment? A The plasticizer will tend to continue to migrate over other parts through surface tension. Q What should I do if I discover this condition of “oily” substance on or in my electrical equipment? A Follow the “Recommended Action” section of this Bulletin (above).

[growalot]

Quote

Last thing we did was pull the cover off the main breaker panel and check wires, breakers and we noticed an oil type residue dripping down the inside of the box off the ground.

Is it an underground service...here's the reason I ask We were getting broun outs ,really high electric bills and breakers tripping, strange smells... Then one day I hear underground explosions and look out the front window to see blue and orange sparks and smoke coming out of the ground 4 ft from the house all electric went out. Our underground service wasn't put in conduit just buried...Well ground moves and shifts and that protective sheath rubbed away and then the wires inside finally did ...touching poof!!!

[growalot]

Well looks like Elmer has probably figured it out...

[philoshop]

It sounds to me like you have a dead animal somewhere in your house. Or maybe some standing water that's gotten stinky in your basement? When there's a problem with an electrical service panel it's generally a fire. Thank God you're not there, but the seepage thing is probably caused by poorly protected or poorly insulated service entrance wires. There's a very good reason why I don't use the cheap stuff. Half the price, and twice the headaches.

[mlammerhirt]

Ok....we got to the root of the problem. Not sure if I mentioned this but around 7:30 we also noticed that the compressor for the AC unit was working either. So we traced that problem to the capacitor not working.
Well today we had a guy come to look over the AC and repair it. After replacing the capacitor and cleaning the unit he took a look at the service panel and pulled the breakers for the AC and realized then had started to fry from water that either got in recently or before we moved in.
Long story short looks like I am gonna need the panel switched out and breakers updated to be safe.

My question is now can anyone recommend​ a reliable electrican that works in the Southtowns that can give me an estimate on this type of work?

On a side note....thanks for all the suggestions and support with the electrical issue...always knew I could turn to this site for some advice.

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[philoshop]

If I were closer to you I'd do it for dinner and drinks. Ask around the local American Legion or VFW. There's a level of basic honesty there that is often missing in the general public.

[mlammerhirt]

Good idea...got my dad headed over to the rod and gun club we belong to. He is going to poke around and see if he can get some names.

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