OK input request...

[growalot]

So as I have mentioned the swamp is lined on either side with houses the south, right on the line and at the road.. it's only 411ft wide so obviously that limits me but my ladder stand was just on the edge of my gun legal range. This happened after the new owner tore down and removed 2 rental trailers parallel to me.  once gone it went from bow to gun...and I did hunt with the shot gun down there last year... Well since he has placed a camping trailer at the farthest pad.  He is remodeling a mobile home down at the road so I see he's now living in his camper. I would have to assume his address is the mobile home. and I believe you can't get a ticket of occupancy on a camping trailer. I had to move my stand 15 yrds closer to him which may have me right at the limits. If not...is it legal to be within 500 ft of a camper when shooting? I have enough left over wood to make a hang on farther away but I do not have the time nor energy to do it this year...

[moog5050]

11-093 env. cons. l.

4. a. No person shall:

(2) discharge a firearm within five hundred feet, a long bow within one hundred fifty feet, or a crossbow within two hundred fifty feet from a dwelling house, farm building or farm structure actually occupied or used, school building, school playground, public structure, or occupied factory or church;

Is a camping trailer a dwelling house or farm structure actually used?  No idea but I suspect DEC would play it on the safe side.  "so I see he's now living in his camper."  Sounds like it might be deemed or least argued to be a dwelling house even if temporary.

[Doc]

I would call it "occupied" as far as the spirit of the law is concerned.

But let me ask another question. If you go and get permission to shoot closer than the 500' from the owner/occupant, does that make it legal? I have never seen anything that addresses "permission". I know the landowners and tenants and such can ignore that proximity law, but what I am wondering is can the owner give others permission to shoot closer than 500'. If the answer is "yes", then perhaps you can make the problem go away with a little face to face conversation.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

15 minutes ago, Doc said:

I would call it "occupied" as far as the spirit of the law is concerned.

But let me ask another question. If you go and get permission to shoot closer than the 500' from the owner/occupant, does that make it legal? I have never seen anything that addresses "permission". I know the landowners and tenants and such can ignore that proximity law, but what I am wondering is can the owner give others permission to shoot closer than 500'. If the answer is "yes", then perhaps you can make the problem go away with a little face to face conversation.

The prohibitions contained in subparagraph 2 of paragraph a above shall not apply to:

(1) The owner or lessee of the dwelling house, or members of his immediate family actually residing therein, or a person in his employ, or the guest of the owner or lessee of the dwelling house acting with the consent of said owner or lessee, provided however, that nothing herein shall be deemed to authorize such persons to discharge a firearm within five hundred feet, a long bow within one hundred fifty feet, or a crossbow within two hundred fifty feet of any other dwelling house, or a farm building or farm structure actually occupied or used, or a school building or playground, public structure, or occupied factory or church;

In that same spirit of the law I can see a permission falling in this section. 

[fasteddie]

This should cover it .............

Discharge of Firearms, Crossbows and Bows

For information on where various legal implements may be used in the state, see Rifle, Shotgun, Crossbow and Bow Areas.

It is illegal to discharge a firearm, bow or crossbow:

• so that the load or arrow passes over any part of a public highway,
• within 500 feet (for a firearm), 250 feet (for a crossbow) or 150 feet (for a bow) of any school, playground, or an occupied factory or church,
• within 500 feet (for a firearm), 250 feet (for a crossbow) or 150 feet (for a bow) of a dwelling, farm building or structure in occupation or use unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or "have the owner's consent."
• You may hunt waterfowl with a firearm or bow, over water, within 500 feet of a dwelling or public structure as long as neither are within 500 feet (for a firearm) or 150 feet (for a bow) in the direction you are shooting. You may not hunt waterfowl with a crossbow.

[growalot]

I can't copy and paste,kindle. So if you read further it has definitions...dwellings camping trailers are excluded as well as detached garages and out buildings or any temporary structure.I'll post it tomorrow.

[growalot]

OK I'm on the PC so can paste this. Here is where I find the DEC regulations interesting but also important to land owners read carefully their wording and definitions. I'll highlight or underline a few..I have to say  Be careful where you place your kids play areas or that pool on a property.

 

Quote

Discharge of Firearms, Crossbows and Bows

For information on where various legal implements may be used in the state, see Rifle, Shotgun, Crossbow and Bow Areas.

It is illegal to discharge a firearm, bow or crossbow:

• so that the load or arrow passes over any part of a public highway,
• within 500 feet (for a firearm), 250 feet (for a crossbow) or 150 feet (for a bow) of any school, playground, or an occupied factory or church,
• within 500 feet (for a firearm), 250 feet (for a crossbow) or 150 feet (for a bow) of a dwelling, farm building or structure in occupation or use unless you own it, lease it, are an immediate member of the family, an employee, or have the owner's consent.
• You may hunt waterfowl with a firearm or bow, over water, within 500 feet of a dwelling or public structure as long as neither are within 500 feet (for a firearm) or 150 feet (for a bow) in the direction you are shooting. You may not hunt waterfowl with a crossbow.

For the purpose of these laws, definitions are as follows:

Dwelling houses -- a permanent place where people live and sleep. Excluded are temporary residential units including camping trailers, motor homes or other portable shelters.d Also exclude are abandoned dwellings, detached garages, tree houses, "playscapes", decks, pool areas, storage sheds and out-buildings - even when/if they are temporarily occupied. permanent camp or cabin may qualify as a "dwelling house".

Farm building, farm structure that is either occupied or used -- these structures are largely determined on a case-by-case basis. To qualify, the premises alleged to be a farm must be utilized principally for agricultural production for commercial purposes, including but not limited to crops, fruit, hay, livestock, production of dairy products, nurseries/greenhouses. There is no minimum number of acres that must be either owned or farmed to qualify. To receive protection the farm building or farm structure must be either occupied by people or livestock or used in some, even small, degree for storage of farm related tools, equipment or livestock. Excluded would be structures and out-buildings on acreage or lands that are not a "farm" even if they are temporarily occupied.

They in general, consider a farm to be one with an income of at least 10,000 per year... I have had several conversations with them on this issue...

Edited September 13, 2017 by growalot

[Doc]

When faced with these kinds of issues, I really like a written interpretation from those that might be knocking on your door if your interpretation does not agree with theirs. Also, be sure that the local and state agencies don't have their own separate laws regulating their interpretations of such things. Try to get an e-mail response that addresses your specific situation to file away in case you get challenged.

[growalot]

I know our town will not issue a certificate of legal occupancy to camping trailers...a few issued about that has risen over the years there is a square footage requirement and a structural tie in requirement...When I go down I will take the range finder with me and measure my line to his camper...I have a map with footage of both my property and his I carry it in my back tag... He isn't the problem in the area...his land tenants are..It's strange he owns the land but the tenants are listed as lot owning tax payers he also controls a well pump?   The whole things odd. The town put in an order that if a trailer burned only a stick house could replace it...

[Doc]

I think it's more a case of having some friendly discussions with them and explaining the situation and obtaining permission to shoot within the 500' rule, and don't worry about the technicalities of the law. In the interest of good neighbor relations, it sounds more like a case of mutual accommodation and agreement rather than looking for legal loop holes. Unless they are already known to be poop-headed A-holes, in which case, you may have to rely on the technicalities of the law.

[growalot]

His "tenants" are the problem...when he first bought he used my cell # on my posted signs to call me up when I was in my tree stand a 1/2 mile or so away to literally scream at me. His tenants told him I was down there shooting deer in their yards. I ticked them off when I bought and posted it...They thought it was just theirs to hunt..Lol Well as you can guess that call didn't go over well...his threatening name calling...I nipped it in the bud when he posted my property the following year...I drove up.his drive and we had s face to face. When I left it was with  his apology and removal  of signs. An agreement he call the cops and me about trespassers. His getting tenants under control. Lastly while having  a good firm grip on his hand,I said If he ever calls me up again and speaks the way he did I will come down and some one will be calling an ambulance,because I swear to God I'll kick your arse. He looked at me smiled and said,I believe you'd try....No problems since It's been a few years.

As far as "loopholes" pretty sure the DEC definitions  on what constitutes a legal dwelling are very clear as they are written. I believe they written those definitions to avoid loopholes Though as I said to be sure I will still range the distance,as far as I'm concerned farther away is better.

[G-Man]

I would hunt there..it's legal and I'm sure you dont fire multiple shots.. Sounds like he does a land contract for lots.. I have a neighbor that acts up from time to time.. After I show he doesn't have leg to stand on he backs off for a few years and then starts all over...