Fastest compound bows

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:39 AM, Belo said:

I'm not sure irrelevant... point is, do you agree that the range of a crossbow is greater than that of a compound given only a small amount of practice with both?

Ive never said crossbows arent easier to become accurate with. Im saying that just because you can set your crossbow up to shoot 100 yards, doesnt mean that having it setup like that is going to make it work well in a hunting situation. Once its setup for hunting, a 50 to 60 yard range is going to be your max. Personally, Ill take a 50 yard shot with mine if its the right situation and I have a good rest. Offhand, its 40 and less, just like my compound.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 10/31/2017 at 10:30 AM, chas0218 said:

But if they get the full inclusion they are pushing for it will be. Why do you think people keep mentioning? No restrictions means no restrictions on draw weight or axle to axle, ect. Might as well allow the air bow.

The airbow is an airgun, not a bow of any type. The only states that allow it, allow it in firearms season only. You guys can stop with this nonsense any day now.

[Five Seasons]

i'm willing to bet you're in the minority. Maybe I'm wrong. I bet most crossbow guys feel 60 is a good distance with their setups. Where is most compound guys draw the line at 30 or 35. That's a pretty big advantage.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 11/1/2017 at 2:01 AM, Doc said:

Is there really anybody who can seriously say that there has not been a marked increase in attention to crossbow R & D in recent years? Come on..... let's be a little honest here. Technology is all consumer inspired and marketing driven. And right now with every other ad being about the latest and greatest crossbow, they are receiving the consumer attention and dollars needed to spur on a new wave of technology with no end in sight. So I don't care if crossbows have been around since man began to eat meat, there is no honest doubt in anyone's mind that there is a modern day new wave of interest in research and development of crossbows. So, I really don't have a clue, nor does anyone else, as to what a crossbow will look like or do in the future. But we are getting a few clues from some of the You-tube innovations on display on the internet. Like I said, they have a whole new platform to invent off of now, and the dollars and consumer interest to propel that technology forward. You ain't seen nothing yet.

As more states allow their use, of course you are going to see a large marketing push. Its not new, its been developing for decades, and the repeated spouting of "its a brand new technology" doesnt make the facts disappear.

[Five Seasons]

2 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

The airbow is an airgun, not a bow of any type. The only states that allow it, allow it in firearms season only. You guys can stop with this nonsense any day now.

i'll agree it's a stretch, but honestly how really different is it? Both have charged PE that only require a squeeze of a trigger to propel a bolt. Lets pretend speed and distance were the same. The only difference would be one is propelled by compressed gas and the other by compressed limbs and sting.

 If we're going to push the crossbow into the archery category, making exceptions to the differences, one can easily see 5 to 10 years from now the air bow having the same argument made for it. 

[wfmiller]

On 10/31/2017 at 9:39 AM, Belo said:

I'm not sure irrelevant... point is, do you agree that the range of a crossbow is greater than that of a compound given only a small amount of practice with both?

No the range of a crossbow is not greater. Crossbows use a smaller bolt and lose to much kinetic energy to be more effective. The effective range of a crossbow is out to about 60 yards, yet, I have seen 90 yard shots on animals with a compound. So the myth that it is the same as shooting a rifle is just that, a myth.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

i'm willing to bet you're in the minority. Maybe I'm wrong. I bet most crossbow guys feel 60 is a good distance with their setups. Where is most compound guys draw the line at 30 or 35. That's a pretty big advantage.

I have an above average crossbow that I will be carrying tomorrow for the first time. even with all the technology it still seems loud as hell to me compared to my compound. I wish I had a decibel meter. I have take deer  at 45 and 46 yards on occasion but I don't think I would push this crossbow out past 40.  

[WNYBuckHunter]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

i'm willing to bet you're in the minority. Maybe I'm wrong. I bet most crossbow guys feel 60 is a good distance with their setups. Where is most compound guys draw the line at 30 or 35. That's a pretty big advantage.

And those guys will quickly learn that they are wrong in most hunting situations. 60 isnt out of range for a compound, btw. They shoot those distances out west, but the lay of the land and the game they typically hunt are a bit different. You do have to do alot more practicing to be proficient at those ranges. My 60 yard groups are not horrible, but unless I really put my nose to the grindstone, I wouldnt dare take a shot that far while Im hunting.

[WNYBuckHunter]

10 minutes ago, Belo said:

i'll agree it's a stretch, but honestly how really different is it? Both have charged PE that only require a squeeze of a trigger to propel a bolt. Lets pretend speed and distance were the same. The only difference would be one is propelled by compressed gas and the other by compressed limbs and sting.

 If we're going to push the crossbow into the archery category, making exceptions to the differences, one can easily see 5 to 10 years from now the air bow having the same argument made for it. 

Its completely different lol. Arrow off a string powered by limbs = archery. Arrow shot out of a gun = gun.

[Five Seasons]

12 minutes ago, wfmiller said:

No the range of a crossbow is not greater. Crossbows use a smaller bolt and lose to much kinetic energy to be more effective. The effective range of a crossbow is out to about 60 yards, yet, I have seen 90 yard shots on animals with a compound. So the myth that it is the same as shooting a rifle is just that, a myth.

you didn't read the whole thing. The range of the crossbow is much easier to be effective at a greater distance with far less practice. Most can be proficient at 50 to 60 in an afternoon. To get that distance with a compound it takes a lot more practice and effort. I bet there's only a small handful of archers on this forum who will confidently shoot a deer over 40 with their compound. 

[Five Seasons]

6 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Its completely different lol. Arrow off a string powered by limbs = archery. Arrow shot out of a gun = gun.

it's funny to hear you say this. While I agree, it's the same response us compound guys use against the crossbow. "it's completely different" lol. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

2 minutes ago, Belo said:

it's funny to hear you say this. While I agree, it's the same response us compound guys use against the crossbow. "it's completely different" lol. 

Its still a bow, its not a gun. I know you wont agree, and thats ok, Im just stating where I draw the line. I dont want guns in bow season.

[Five Seasons]

3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Its still a bow, its not a gun. I know you wont agree, and thats ok, Im just stating where I draw the line. I dont want guns in bow season.

and honestly i don't really care, i think you know that too. But as crossbow tech increases, if for arguments sake you consider their speed the same I really just find the difference between them to be negligible. It may be a gun, but it's not a firearm. They both kill with a broadhead equipped bolt, and both require the same level of force to squeeze the trigger and fire. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

4 minutes ago, Belo said:

and honestly i don't really care, i think you know that too. But as crossbow tech increases, if for arguments sake you consider their speed the same I really just find the difference between them to be negligible. It may be a gun, but it's not a firearm. They both kill with a broadhead equipped bolt, and both require the same level of force to squeeze the trigger and fire. 

Airguns are actually classified as firearms. The projectile that they fire doesnt make a difference.

[wfmiller]

6 minutes ago, Belo said:

you didn't read the whole thing. The range of the crossbow is much easier to be effective at a greater distance with far less practice. Most can be proficient at 50 to 60 in an afternoon. To get that distance with a compound it takes a lot more practice and effort. I bet there's only a small handful of archers on this forum who will confidently shoot a deer over 40 with their compound. 

So you have to practice more maybe, so what? 

[Five Seasons]

3 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Airguns are actually classified as firearms. The projectile that they fire doesnt make a difference.

well i guess i was thinking that they don't require gunpowder to work.

3 minutes ago, wfmiller said:

So you have to practice more maybe, so what? 

so what? 98% of bowhunters don't have the time or ability to achieve those distances. I've been shooting for over 15 years and no way I'm taking that shot. 80+% of crossbow hunters can get their in an afternoon. 

tell me you're just arguing and don't really fail to see the difference?

[Jamoke]

Most xbow hunters do NOT take 50-60yd shots at deer. Waaaaay to much string jumping to make a great shot. The ones that do are mostly newbees. Under 35 yds though, it's no comparison to a compound as far as consistent accuracy of hitting a half dollar.

[wfmiller]

42 minutes ago, Belo said:

so what? 98% of bowhunters don't have the time or ability to achieve those distances. I've been shooting for over 15 years and no way I'm taking that shot. 80+% of crossbow hunters can get their in an afternoon. 

tell me you're just arguing and don't really fail to see the difference?

I understand what you are saying, but with the bows we have now days it's not that big a difference between 30 yards and 40 yards.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

well i guess i was thinking that they don't require gunpowder to work.

so what? 98% of bowhunters don't have the time or ability to achieve those distances. I've been shooting for over 15 years and no way I'm taking that shot. 80+% of crossbow hunters can get their in an afternoon. 

tell me you're just arguing and don't really fail to see the difference?

I know of 3 guys that will be carrying a crossbow tomorrow for the first time. How will your bowhunting experience change becasue of it?  Two of us would have been in the woods anyway, one is new to this time of year. Will even the adjacent landowners next to us notice any difference?

[Core]

22 hours ago, Belo said:

yep. and once you allow them in, there's no turning back. I do predict 5 to 10 years from now a few guys maybe regretting their stance. 

They'll remember the good old days when the woods were quiet and empty in October and it was just guys with their bows and their dumb pin sights...we'll march toward 500 fps out of an arrow, shot quietly, and an optics system that automatically adjusts reticle to account for elevation and distance. Maybe it gets smart enough to process the image of what it's seeing and highlight within the sight exactly where you should aim. Maybe it gets even smarter and when you pull the trigger it doesn't release an arrow until the exact moment the reticle is where it believes the best shot is, so now your off-hand shooting at even 60 yards is incredible.

 I'm very limited, I can only make an assessment of current actual facts. 

Thankfully I don't have this problem; I'm able to take what I know and combine it with experience and logic to determine what I think the future will be.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Core

[Core]

1 hour ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I have an above average crossbow that I will be carrying tomorrow for the first time. even with all the technology it still seems loud as hell to me compared to my compound. I wish I had a decibel meter. I have take deer  at 45 and 46 yards on occasion but I don't think I would push this crossbow out past 40.  

Mine is absurdly loud as well.

Quote

No the range of a crossbow is not greater. Crossbows use a smaller bolt and lose to much kinetic energy to be more effective. The effective range of a crossbow is out to about 60 yards, yet, I have seen 90 yard shots on animals with a compound. So the myth that it is the same as shooting a rifle is just that, a myth.

It is absolutely greater. Modern Crossbows are shooting arrows every bit as heavy as a vertical bow, at massively higher speeds. Drop over distance and KE at a given yardage are much lower, and higher, respectively.

If you can pull 70 lbs on the fastest vertical bow on the market (PSE full throttle) with a 30" draw and shoot a 400 grain arrow you're at 353 FPS (assume no peep sight or anything). http://archerycalculator.com/estimate-bow-speed/ 98 ft lbs @ 50 yards w/ 37" drop: http://www.bestcrossbowsource.com/crossbow-arrow-ballistics-calculator

Fastest Xbow on the market is well north of 150 KE and about 2/3rd that arrow's drop at 50 yards. Hits way harder at 70 yards than the arrow did a 3 yards.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Core

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, Core said:

They'll remember the good old days when the woods were quiet and empty in October and it was just guys with their bows and their dumb pin sights...we'll march toward 500 fps out of an arrow, shot quietly, and an optics system that automatically adjusts reticle to account for elevation and distance. Maybe it gets smart enough to process the image of what it's seeing and highlight within the sight exactly where you should aim. Maybe it gets even smarter and when you pull the trigger it doesn't release an arrow until the exact moment the reticle is where it believes the best shot is, so now your off-hand shooting at even 60 yards is incredible.

 

alot of doomsday scenarios is all I see here

[airedale]

Been watching this "FULL INCLUSION"  banter for years with all factions entrenched in their positions on the matter with no positions being changed. I say before making any laws the DEC should put forth something like a trial judged by a large panel of actual hunters that do not hunt with archery equipment or have any connection to archery.

Let each faction (Traditional Bow, Compound Bow, Crossbow) present their position to that panel on what they believe the essence of hunting with archery equipment is and their give opinion on how fair for all archery seasons should be implemented. 

Each faction should lay it all out on the table giving a live in depth demonstration on how their equipment operates including firing arrows and bolts at target of various distances. Also I think it would be good for each member of the panel of hunters to give each weapon a try for themselves, nothing like first hand experience!

After all factions make their best case for fairness let that large panel of hunters decide on resolving all this as to when each weapon's season should be allowed with fairness to all.

Al

[WNYBuckHunter]

5 minutes ago, airedale said:

Been watching this "FULL INCLUSION"  banter for years with all factions entrenched in their positions on the matter with no positions being changed. I say before making any laws the DEC should put forth something like a trial judged by a large panel of actual hunters that do not hunt with archery equipment or have any connection to archery.

Let each faction (Traditional Bow, Compound Bow, Crossbow) present their position to that panel on what they believe the essence of hunting with archery equipment is and their give opinion on how fair for all archery seasons should be implemented. 

Each faction should lay it all out on the table giving a live in depth demonstration on how their equipment operates including firing arrows and bolts at target of various distances. Also I think it would be good for each member of the panel of hunters to give each weapon a try for themselves, nothing like first hand experience!

After all factions make their best case for fairness let that large panel of hunters decide on resolving all this as to when each weapon's season should be allowed with fairness to all.

Al

There have actually been some people that have changed their stance.

Theres no point in the DEC putting a debate together, a simple questionnaire with a yes/no answer when you buy your license is all thats needed if they want the opinion of the overall hunting population. The DEC has already made it clear that they want full inclusion.

 

[airedale]

16 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Theres no point in the DEC putting a debate together, a simple questionnaire with a yes/no answer when you buy your license is all thats needed if they want the opinion of the overall hunting population. The DEC has already made it clear that they want full inclusion.

There is a point of having a debate because unless all hunters are truly educated on all of this it is far from being some simple yes or no matter. As long as every faction thinks they are right they should have nothing to lose with such a debate and demonstration and totally welcome the scrutiny.

As for the DEC their position is nothing about being fair it is all about adding coins to the till.

Al

Edited November 3, 2017 by airedale