Helloooo!!! Are you ready for the answer?

[growalot]

So I decided to keep up with this off line with a few members here...I'll let you all know whats happened ...last week I got a PDF file saying So here are the baiting laws...LOL I figured stall tacktic and waited until today to respond..I opened my e-mail and there was another response...here it is copied and pasted in entirety. note the highlighted potion...

Quote

 

 

 

 

 

Below is the answer to your question on carrying two hunting implements at the same time if hunting for two different species. It really comes down to knowing what you can and cannot be in possession of while hunting a particular species. NYS laws and regulations specify if you cannot be in possession of a certain weapon while hunting a certain species. So, there is not one law or reg that says what you can or cannot do. Here is the response from our law enforcement:  

 

As long as neither implement is prohibited by a person hunting for a particular game, there is no issue with simultaneously hunting two species at the same time.  Someone hunting for grouse could carry a .22 pistol for shooting squirrels, for instance.

 

Hunting for deer during a muzzleloading or bowhunting season while in possession of a gun, or with someone who possess a gun is prohibited.  Further, the bowhunter accompanying someone with a muzzleloader would be a ticketable offense.  However, someone hunting pursuant to a muzzleloading privilege COULD use a crossbow and accompany a bowhunter, as long as both special seasons are open.  There used to be occasional confusion when the late Muzzleloader season did not line up with late bow season, but that has largely been eliminated.

 

A turkey hunter could use a crossbow for turkeys and a compound bow for deer, but I can't think of a practical way to still hunt with both implements or quietly carry them to a stand/blind for purposes. 

 

Kelly

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by growalot

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Tell it to the Judge after you get a ticket issued. Oh that would be after your pay for a lawyer to fight the $50 fine.

[growalot]

 Now read that carefully because I can now say it doesn't make sense...Also STILL NO WRITTEN LAW... BTW it is also legal to be in the woods with a cross bow these upcoming two weeks and on ...WITH OUT a ML tag...why because you do not need one to shoot anything other than deer

[growalot]

I'll be carrying the DEC e-mail... I mean how many times have I heard you guys say THAT!...lol going hunting have a good one....

Edited October 30, 2017 by growalot

[TACC]

Glad they replied, and now that it is in black and white it can be used as as reference if someone were to get jammed up.
And I will give the DEC some credit, it took less time than I expected.

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[growalot]

I'm actually an easy person to deal with when treated with civility..Most ppl respond well to me one to one.

[growalot]

Spelling corrections. ..tactic....and portion. ..

[eagle rider]

who is Kelly?

 

[Hock3y24]

For what it is worth,  i don't see the officer writing your ticket caring about this email. I wouldnt want to be the one in court spending my money..right or wrong!

[reeltime]

18 hours ago, growalot said:

As long as neither implement is prohibited by a person hunting for a particular game, there is no issue with simultaneously hunting two species at the same time.  Someone hunting for grouse could carry a .22 pistol for shooting squirrels, for instance.

the answer is right there in writing.  possession of a crossbow while deer hunting before the actual crossbow season is open makes it an illegal weapon, doesn't matter if its legal for turkey, small game , yotes or anything else, its possession of a crossbow while deer hunting prior to crossbow season for deer. 

The way this reads is that you can carry a bow for both species because bow is a legal weapon for BOTH species being hunted. 

your chances of getting caught are probably low and its your personal decision if you choose to carry both just as its anyone else that reads this and chooses to carry both but if you are caught it will result in a ticket just as it has for hundreds of people that have been caught hunting with a crossbow before the crossbow season is open, whether people want to believe it or not it is happening far more than you think.

 

[growalot]

Eagle Rider...Kelly is the person they gave me when I called Albany DEC and told them I needed to speak with someone well versed in DEC regulations and laws..The person I questioned on this before ever asking the question. The person that took nearly a week to research and find another person to confirm their answer before e mailing me a reply. Now read that in its entirety.especially the first paragraph. Words it is in the wording.. Their last paragraph summarizes the first.

Note I asked for written law stating it was illegal,such as with the regulations SPECIFCALLY mentioning guns.. There was none as stated in the first paragraph....This person does not know me ,isn't a friend of a friend. Just a person at Albany DEC.

Edited October 31, 2017 by growalot

[chrisw]

So, you got the same answer as the last 30 page thread... Good job.

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[growalot]

Last 30 page? OK, I got the answer I got. Whether your satisfied with it or not is of no concern of mine. They stated what I have been saying all along whether you like it or not. From the DEC's research and consultation with others they summarized their conclusion, move on.....

20 hours ago, growalot said:

NYS laws and regulations specify if you cannot be in possession of a certain weapon while hunting a certain species

They SPECIFIED you can not be in procession of a fire arm in bow season while hunting deer... They do not say the same about cross bows ..ANYwhere:

Quote

Manner of Taking

It is unlawful to:

• Take big game while the deer or bear is in water.
• Possess a firearm of any description when bowhunting or when accompanying a person bowhunting during special archery seasons.

Quote

Bowhunting

Bowhunting opportunities include both the regular and bowhunting seasons.

• Hunters must possess a current bowhunting or junior bowhunting privilege to participate during the bowhunting seasons.
• The bowhunting privilege is not required to hunt with a bow during regular seasons, but hunters must possess proof of eligibility (either a valid bowhunter education certificate or prior bowhunting license).
• Bow/Muzz either-sex or antlerless-only tags may not be used during the regular seasons except by junior bowhunters or in WMUs 1C and 3S.
• In WMUs 4J and 8C, only bows may be used to take deer during the regular and bowhunting seasons.
• Suffolk (WMU 1C) and Westchester counties (WMU 3S) have separate regular seasons restricted to bows for taking deer (either sex).
• See Legal Implement Descriptions for definitions of a legal bow.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, reeltime said:

the answer is right there in writing.  possession of a crossbow while deer hunting before the actual crossbow season is open makes it an illegal weapon, doesn't matter if its legal for turkey, small game , yotes or anything else, its possession of a crossbow while deer hunting prior to crossbow season for deer. 

The way this reads is that you can carry a bow for both species because bow is a legal weapon for BOTH species being hunted. 

your chances of getting caught are probably low and its your personal decision if you choose to carry both just as its anyone else that reads this and chooses to carry both but if you are caught it will result in a ticket just as it has for hundreds of people that have been caught hunting with a crossbow before the crossbow season is open, whether people want to believe it or not it is happening far more than you think.

 

How do you take the last paragraph on the email?

A turkey hunter could use a crossbow for turkeys and a compound bow for deer, but I can't think of a practical way to still hunt with both implements or quietly carry them to a stand/blind for purposes. 

 

[growalot]

Gosh don't you know Culver...I made the whole thing up, remember I'm delusional,and a liar, Oh and a law breaker.........How many times has that been said...LOL

[reeltime]

I don' know about that last part could be the person doesn't know that fall turkey does not over lap with crossbow season.
The law is above that and as stated possession of an unlawful weapon while deer hunting is a violation.

Bottom line is each is responsible for knowing the law, if you get caught its your license that's going to be revoked or points added to it.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, reeltime said:

 or points added to it.

Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk
 

what does that mean? They aren't like a driver's license. 

[reeltime]

For non revokeable offenses points can be added so if you accumalate enough non recordable violations they can revoke your license.

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[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, reeltime said:

For non revokeable offenses points can be added so if you accumalate enough non recordable violations they can revoke your license.

Sent from my LGL58VL using Tapatalk
 

Didn't know that. Where is that defined and detailed?

[reeltime]

Not sure where its detq
Ailesd but just had this explained to me from a it. Dec officer last week. I was surprised as well when it was explained to me.

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[reeltime]

I need to clarify that I was not the offender. Lol. Just simply the points deal was explained to me during the course of an investigation.

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[Five Seasons]

22 hours ago, growalot said:

However, someone hunting pursuant to a muzzleloading privilege COULD use a crossbow and accompany a bowhunter, as long as both special seasons are open.  There used to be occasional confusion when the late Muzzleloader season did not line up with late bow season, but that has largely been eliminated.

It's hard to really understand this email with the weird paragraphs and bolding, but it almost sounds like she's saying one person can be deer hunting and another could be turkey hunting, not that a single hunter could do both. Not to mention the grouse example is odd because I can't bowhunt with a .22. It doesn't apply to your example. Furthermore, she mentions the muzzleloading privilege which isn't valid right now, so it again calls into question the legality of it. On top of that she adds opinion to the email, which almost discredits the whole thing.

Personally, all seems clear as mud to me and this email maybe gives you some piece of mind, but I think the situation still stands that there isn't anything in writing that says you can and nothing that says you cannot. So ultimately we're still left with "is it worth the risk" and the answer is probably yes, because you hunt private land and wont get caught.

Just a final tidbit for you, even though I know you have me blocked. I will reiterate that i make a comfortable living in compliance and regulation interpretation. I've spent my career in the gray. Specifically I have written letters from local sewer authorities stating that i could dump chemical xyz down the drain if i follow my abc process. Oh great an email, I'm all good and defensible in court right? No. While it's a "nice to have" it doesn't get you out of court in the first place, and it doesn't leave you innocent either. Heck I once had 2 different employees in Monroe county working for the same POTW give me 2 different answers. One said yes and the other said no. I swear, true story. With 2 separate companies and 2 different municipalities I've found even though the local potw was willing to take chemical xyz, it was still not allowed by the EPA. So just because someone with some level of authority tells you something, it doesn't mean anything if they truly don't know what they're talking about.

[Buckmaster7600]

I'm not a lawyer but to me that email says you're "ok" to carry both. Would a field officer after reading that email change his mind on writing you a ticket? I don't know but I don't put much faith in them. This coming from some who was written a ticket for not having a plug in my shotgun while hunting doves in NC, I was using an over under...

Would it be worth it for me? HELL NO, and not because I'm afraid of the legal BS but because carrying both would be a pain.


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[Culvercreek hunt club]

3 minutes ago, Belo said:

It's hard to really understand this email with the weird paragraphs and bolding, but it almost sounds like she's saying one person can be deer hunting and another could be turkey hunting, not that a single hunter could do both. Not to mention the grouse example is odd because I can't bowhunt with a .22. It doesn't apply to your example. Furthermore, she mentions the muzzleloading privilege which isn't valid right now, so it again calls into question the legality of it. On top of that she adds opinion to the email, which almost discredits the whole thing.

Personally, all seems clear as mud to me and this email maybe gives you some piece of mind, but I think the situation still stands that there isn't anything in writing that says you can and nothing that says you cannot. So ultimately we're still left with "is it worth the risk" and the answer is probably yes, because you hunt private land and wont get caught.

Just a final tidbit for you, even though I know you have me blocked. I will reiterate that i make a comfortable living in compliance and regulation interpretation. I've spent my career in the gray. Specifically I have written letters from local sewer authorities stating that i could dump chemical xyz down the drain if i follow my abc process. Oh great an email, I'm all good and defensible in court right? No. While it's a "nice to have" it doesn't get you out of court in the first place, and it doesn't leave you innocent either. Heck I once had 2 different employees in Monroe county working for the same POTW give me 2 different answers. One said yes and the other said no. I swear, true story. With 2 separate companies and 2 different municipalities I've found even though the local potw was willing to take chemical xyz, it was still not allowed by the EPA. So just because someone with some level of authority tells you something, it doesn't mean anything if they truly don't know what they're talking about.

As far as the "opinion" part. Since it is NOT written in the regulations or laws clearly it is Opinion of the ENCON officer as well isn't it? This isn't some person working at the local license counter that is answering this. The question was sent in, passed to a person that was tasked with answering it. They appear to have don'e some research and responded. This is official channels. 

[growalot]

Give up Culver They'll just drag it out...NOT 30 pages...But probably 11 like the "other thread" It really is pointless.