Argument Over Shortening Gun Season

[Robhuntandfish]

46 minutes ago, phade said:

There you go thinking about the humans again. Let’s equate that to deer - sex any time or sex during a specific condensed timeframe to ensure healthy fawning and drop periods overwhelming predatory impact by flooding the market in a short period of time. Compared to the sex anytime of a long drawn out rut cycle spreading fawns to early and late times allowing predators to have a longer period of time to prey on fawns during the critical first few weeks where they don’t have the ability to flee or avoid being eaten.




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so if you want less pressure during the rut then your arguement would be to close season Nov 1-10, the peak of the rut- right in bow season!  please nooooooooo...... they seem to be rutting just fine as the deer numbers are not in trouble....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

so if you want less pressure during the rut then your arguement would be to close season Nov 1-10, the peak of the rut- right in bow season!  please nooooooooo...... they seem to be rutting just fine as the deer numbers are not in trouble....

when you say "Nov 1-10, the peak of the rut". what are you basing that on? Buck movement?

[phade]

I'm not following.....how does the quoted text relate here?

See his reference to Sex anytime. He says it’s good anytime - in deer world, it’s not.

Moving the gun opener to Sat after gun puts more of the rut in front of period of greatest pressure on the herd.


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[Four Season Whitetail's]

34 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

The numbers shown were for the basic hunting license. They dont count each type of license in that number, just the number of individual people that purchased a hunting license.

Including the wives,sons and daughters of hunters that buy their tag for dad. Just read where a dude put two deer harvested on facebook and a Co saw it, He knew the guy and as riding by saw him loading up to go hunting, Co pulls in and ask;s....Going Hunting?...Yeah just for a little while, Well did you not already kill a deer???  In fact did you not kill two deer??  Head hung low as he fessed up to using friends and dads tags!

Cant belive you guys that dont believe this is a huge issue in Ny. This guy was a nut case and got busted but i know so many guys that do it and never have reported deer take in years and i am sure many on here know of a few themselves?  DEC has no clue of the real deer harvests in Ny and no clue of TRUE hunter numbers.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

38 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

so if you want less pressure during the rut then your arguement would be to close season Nov 1-10, the peak of the rut- right in bow season!  please nooooooooo...... they seem to be rutting just fine as the deer numbers are not in trouble....

Glad the deer numbers are fine in your area.........Come North my friend and enjoy the years of mass killing for 3 months at a time!  Wont take you to many sits of seeing shit to head back home i can promise ya that!

[Robhuntandfish]

24 minutes ago, phade said:

See his reference to Sex anytime. He says it’s good anytime - in deer world, it’s not.

Moving the gun opener to Sat after gun puts more of the rut in front of period of greatest pressure on the herd.


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i was joking about people and sex. 

Mostly DEC has always had a closed season during breeding times for fishing - if they did the same for hunting I would bet it would be at the end of bow season - would you be willing to give up a week of bow season ?  A lot of people that are more than willing to give up a week of gun - would they be willing to give up a week of prime bow hunting ?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 minute ago, Robhuntandfish said:

i was joking about people and sex. 

Mostly DEC has always had a closed season during breeding times for fishing - if they did the same for hunting I would bet it would be at the end of bow season - would you be willing to give up a week of bow season ?  A lot of people that are more than willing to give up a week of gun - would they be willing to give up a week of prime bow hunting ?

End bow season as normal and push gun season back 10 days to open the end of November.

[Robhuntandfish]

3 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Glad the deer numbers are fine in your area.........Come North my friend and enjoy the years of mass killing for 3 months at a time!  Wont take you to many sits of seeing shit to head back home i can promise ya that!

the north issue is habitat if your talking about the dacks.  Not an extra 7 days of season.  Hunted the North for most of my life and moved to hunting south cause of the deer numbers.  Couldnt agree with you more.  The issue up there is cold hard winters and lack of habitat and too much old growth forest.  Not 5 -7 days of extra hunting.  As you see all the arguements here that the deer take numbers would be the same - these 5-7 days less arent the problem there.  

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

End bow season as normal and push gun season back 10 days to open the end of November.

so no more traditional day after thanksgiving and weekend hunting...... thats a great idea everyone will go for.  And yeah no one will be against not having a mid november start and want to wait til hunt with the gun til  the end of november - never happen 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 minute ago, Robhuntandfish said:

the north issue is habitat if your talking about the dacks.  Not an extra 7 days of season.  Hunted the North for most of my life and moved to hunting south cause of the deer numbers.  Couldnt agree with you more.  The issue up there is cold hard winters and lack of habitat and too much old growth forest.  Not 5 -7 days of extra hunting.  As you see all the arguements here that the deer take numbers would be the same - these 5-7 days less arent the problem there.  

Wrong!  My 900 acres sits next to a very lightly hunted huge military base. All kinds of Ag and plenty of food with normal winters and still very low deer numbers.  Once a herd gets run down from hunting,vermin and every other way a deer dies it takes time and effort to rebuild. Not the DEC giving out more tags or even the same amount of tags so it opens the door for hunters to kill all the years fawn crop because thats all they see.  Go take a look in a local deer locker in the North?  More than half at any givin time had milk coming out of their mouths when killed.

[Robhuntandfish]

1 minute ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Wrong!  My 900 acres sits next to a very lightly hunted huge military base. All kinds of Ag and plenty of food with normal winters and still very low deer numbers.  Once a herd gets run down from hunting,vermin and every other way a deer dies it takes time and effort to rebuild. Not the DEC giving out more tags or even the same amount of tags so it opens the door for hunters to kill all the years fawn crop because thats all they see.  Go take a look in a local deer locker in the North?  More than half at any givin time had milk coming out of their mouths when killed.

right - next to Fort drum - yup know right where it is.  -  how many inches of snow did you get already this season?  What was the temp there yesterday - record in Watertown.  Thats what keeps your deer herd down.  So your telling me that 5 - 7 less days of hunting will save the herd up there ?? - your delusional

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

so no more traditional day after thanksgiving and weekend hunting...... thats a great idea everyone will go for.  And yeah no one will be against not having a mid november start and want to wait til hunt with the gun til  the end of november - never happen 

Nope because Ny DEC is not smart enough to see the problems to even push to get the laws changed and will stay the same shitty hunting state in most areas that it is now.  On a positive note my checkbook will keep adding zero;s the more and more that state screws up the hunting and i will continue to afford and have all the time needed to travel to good hunting.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

9 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

right - next to Fort drum - yup know right where it is.  -  how many inches of snow did you get already this season?  What was the temp there yesterday - record in Watertown.  Thats what keeps your deer herd down.  So your telling me that 5 - 7 less days of hunting will save the herd up there ?? - your delusional

 

Oh maybe a foot of snow and the cold?  Like that really bothers them. Kinda shows what you dont really know, Tug Hill Maybe. Lake Plains  Never.!

The North now has 3 months of straight hunting pressure. Change the North to what the Tier is now and major herd changes would happen fast. Push guns out of the Rut in the Tier and that herd would mature with less pressure..

Edited December 29, 2017 by Four Season Whitetails

[stubborn1VT]

There is no way that hunting pressure controls the herd more than the habitat.  

[Robhuntandfish]

5 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Oh maybe a foot of snow and the cold?  Like that really bothers them. Kinda shows what you dont really know, Tug Hill Maybe. Lake Plains  Never.!

The North now has 3 months of straight hunting pressure. Change the North to what the Tier is now and major herd changes would happen fast. Push guns out of the Rut in the Tier and that herd would mature with less pressure..

So 31 below zero in December doesn't effect deer and I don't understand. Ok. 

[Robhuntandfish]

So what does the long season work in the southern tier but not the northern tier..... Not because of habitat?  

Why is there more deer in southern tier ?    Not because of poor habitat or winter conditions. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

So 31 below zero in December doesn't effect deer and I don't understand. Ok. 

Serious?  A few days of below zero weather will do nothing to a whitetail that has its health. Not even remotely.  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

So what does the long season work in the southern tier but not the northern tier..... Not because of habitat?  

Why is there more deer in southern tier ?    Not because of poor habitat or winter conditions. 

You call the south a long season?   The north has what like 2 months of gun hunting alone?  With a healthy balanced herd one should not need to chase deer around for 3 months out of 12 to fill tags and then on top of that put them thru the stressful winter you speak of for another 4 months after you chase them around stressful for 3 months.  Yeah thats a write up of having a healthy herd.

[Robhuntandfish]

2 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

You call the south a long season?   The north has what like 2 months of gun hunting alone?  With a healthy balanced herd one should not need to chase deer around for 3 months out of 12 to fill tags and then on top of that put them thru the stressful winter you speak of for another 4 months after you chase them around stressful for 3 months.  Yeah thats a write up of having a healthy herd.

You do realize deer season in the southern zone is Oct 1-dec 19?

[WNYBuckHunter]

43 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

Including the wives,sons and daughters of hunters that buy their tag for dad. Just read where a dude put two deer harvested on facebook and a Co saw it, He knew the guy and as riding by saw him loading up to go hunting, Co pulls in and ask;s....Going Hunting?...Yeah just for a little while, Well did you not already kill a deer???  In fact did you not kill two deer??  Head hung low as he fessed up to using friends and dads tags!

Cant belive you guys that dont believe this is a huge issue in Ny. This guy was a nut case and got busted but i know so many guys that do it and never have reported deer take in years and i am sure many on here know of a few themselves?  DEC has no clue of the real deer harvests in Ny and no clue of TRUE hunter numbers.

Ive heard of guys doing it, but I dont know first hand of any. Doe tags, sure. In fact, my daughter signed hers over to me once she was done bow hunting, in case I needed them, which I didnt. I also dont know any women that buy a license and dont hunt, or let their husbands use their buck/either sex tags.

Other than news stories, I dont listen to much on facebook as far as those stories go. People are worse on there with made up stuff than a bunch of little old ladies in a sewing circle.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 minute ago, Robhuntandfish said:

You do realize deer season in the southern zone is Oct 1-dec 19?

I do.   Bow season puts very little stress on the herd.  You ever wonder why every whitetail hunter in the North goes to the Tier for the first few days/week of hunting?  Kinda speaks for itself 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Ive heard of guys doing it, but I dont know first hand of any. Doe tags, sure. In fact, my daughter signed hers over to me once she was done bow hunting, in case I needed them, which I didnt. I also dont know any women that buy a license and dont hunt, or let their husbands use their buck/either sex tags.

Other than news stories, I dont listen to much on facebook as far as those stories go. People are worse on there with made up stuff than a bunch of little old ladies in a sewing circle.

LOL....Facebook sure bit that guy in the Arse.

[Robhuntandfish]

9 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

I do.   Bow season puts very little stress on the herd.  You ever wonder why every whitetail hunter in the North goes to the Tier for the first few days/week of hunting?  Kinda speaks for itself 

hear that guys we arent putting stress on the herd!   so we dont need to shorten the southern season even with the northern tier coning down here to hunt too!  So although they arent up there they are still stressing the northern herd too! 

   Im going back to the bacon and puppies threads they make more sense. lol  

[WNYBuckHunter]

3 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

hear that guys we arent putting stress on the herd!   so we dont need to shorten the southern season even with the northern tier coning down here to hunt too!  So although they arent up there they are still stressing the northern herd too! 

   Im going back to the bacon and puppies threads they make more sense. lol  

So you are misunderstanding what exactly people are saying needs to be shortened. Its GUN SEASON, not deer season as a whole.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

5 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

hear that guys we arent putting stress on the herd!   so we dont need to shorten the southern season even with the northern tier coning down here to hunt too!  So although they arent up there they are still stressing the northern herd too! 

   Im going back to the bacon and puppies threads they make more sense. lol  

Good idea..When you learn more about herd management come on back.